Formula 1 talk.

[fatbillybob]

They did issue penalties... to Lecerc. 3 spot penalty at Abu Dhabi

That's fair. Checo did nothing wrong. Perez owned the corner and LEC did not present himself properly so he did not force Perez to give racing room and therefore perez can't see LEC. But a safe play is to leave room expecting someone to take any available space. So the smart play is to close off space ASAP. When you take chances you get 1st like Perez. When you play it safe you are only pretty good upper mid-packer like Albon. If Perez played safe and left space LEC might be our winner today?

Sponsored

 

[Bikeman315]

And by the way...

Mercedes reveals radio failure led to Russell F1 Sakhir GP tyre mix-up

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154025/mercedes-radio-failure-led-to-russell-tyre-mixup

 

[sk47]

Hello; Well I enjoyed the race today more than most the last few years. As far as it goes today showed again that the car is the greater factor than the driver. More to the point there are several drivers who could run up front in the Mercedes given the chance.
It was the same sort of thing in the past when a team had the better designed car. Ferrari, Red Bull and so on back in time.
I do not care for Hamilton (LH) much in the same way I did not care for Jeff Gordon in NASCAR. I get that LH can drive but contend there are others who can do just as well. Today may have not proven my contention, but that Russell (GR) stepped in and ran so well should give credence to the notion.
I get that not all 20 of the F1 drivers could step in and do equally well and that is shown by the number two Mercedes driver. Anyway had the pit crews not messed up the tire change it looked like GR would have had the win and it would not have been (LH). Maybe I will get to see another race without LH.

 

[Timeless]

And that is why LH stays out of the pits if possible.....

Fun race to watch!

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Hello; Well I enjoyed the race today more than most the last few years. As far as it goes today showed again that the car is the greater factor than the driver. More to the point there are several drivers who could run up front in the Mercedes given the chance.
It was the same sort of thing in the past when a team had the better designed car. Ferrari, Red Bull and so on back in time.
I do not care for Hamilton (LH) much in the same way I did not care for Jeff Gordon in NASCAR. I get that LH can drive but contend there are others who can do just as well. Today may have not proven my contention, but that Russell (GR) stepped in and ran so well should give credence to the notion.
I get that not all 20 of the F1 drivers could step in and do equally well and that is shown by the number two Mercedes driver. Anyway had the pit crews not messed up the tire change it looked like GR would have had the win and it would not have been (LH). Maybe I will get to see another race without LH.

ive seen this being talked about all weekend. Yes the car matters. Worlds greatest driver of any era isn’t jumping in a Williams or HAAS or Alfa right now and going to win races or the championship.. period. I think everyone knows this. But the merc wouldn’t be where it is today if it was for LH44 and as much as I can’t stand him, I’ll give credit to 6 Rosberg. They pushed the team, gave the team the right feedback and the car is where it is due to them. (And the engineers of course you can only make a car good with the right feedback, just as well as making a car good with the right engineers)

But if you are in a shit car (as much as any car on a F1 grid can be called “shit”) and pushing it to its limit 100% week in week out. Then jump in a proper car of course you’ll be fast. (Think Max first time in a RedBull) its the development of the car after and that’s why I think RB and maybe even Ferrari has went down. Vetted and Ricardo pushed the RB the proper way, once Max came and was “their future” the car kinda fell on its face, they stopped listening to Ric. Same with Ferrari. They were running up front challenging for wins and even a championship until the “golden boy” showed up (and of course got caught cheating) and now look at them.

so yeah the car is a huge part, but driver feedback is just as important and the right engineers and that’s why Mercs are dominating..

just my opinion

 

[Littleredd]

so yeah the car is a huge part, but driver feedback is just as important and the right engineers and that’s why Mercs are dominating..

I'll piggy back of what you said, as I agree, and add that champions are able to "extract more from the car" than than someone else of like experience and talent on any given weekend.

What makes someone like Hamilton special is to see him week in and week out beat his teamate on a level playing field. Seeing GR63 jump into a car he's never driven before and STILL out drive Bottas is not a knock on Bottas. It just shows how much raw talent GR63 has as a racing driver.

 

[Timeless]

Bottas is proof it is not just the car...Russel is proof you have to have the car.

I'm positive Max in a Merc would be unbelievable....and that's from a LH fan.

 

[Bikeman315]

I'm positive Max in a Merc would be unbelievable....and that's from a LH fan.

I‘d like to see this too. But what I’d really like to see is every current driver get a few laps in the Mercedes. Not now, of course, but when the current car becomes obsolete in 2022. Imagine Riccardo, Perez, Leclerc, or Norris in the #44.

 

[Littleredd]

I‘d like to see this too. But what I’d really like to see is every current driver get a few laps in the Mercedes. Not now, of course, but when the current car becomes obsolete in 2022. Imagine Riccardo, Perez, Leclerc, or Norris in the #44.

These are the top 20 drivers in the world. The best of the best of the best (mostly). I'd love to see what any one of them could do in the fastest car ever built. But...

There are 2 championships at play in Formula 1. I would love to see the constructors step up their game (within the rules, Ferrari...) And put a car out that can compete.

 

[Bikeman315]

These are the top 20 drivers in the world. The best of the best of the best (mostly). I'd love to see what any one of them could do in the fastest car ever built. But...

You would like to think that but it is not true. The are a number of current F1 drivers that would have a difficult time getting a seat in any series if they did have huge dollars behind them. Even Checo said that yesterday.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=www

There are 2 championships at play in Formula 1. I would love to see the constructors step up their game (within the rules, Ferrari...) And put a car out that can compete.

The other top tier teams are not poor yet in six years still cannot seem to figure out Mercedes. Yes each will show a flash of progress from time to time but no one can do any consistently.

 

[Littleredd]

You would like to think that but it is not true. The are a number of current F1 drivers that would have a difficult time getting a seat in any series if they did have huge dollars behind them. Even Checo said that yesterday.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=www


The other top tier teams are not poor yet in six years still cannot seem to figure out Mercedes. Yes each will show a flash of progress from time to time but no one can do any consistently.

I agree with most of what you say, especially about the drivers.

Pay drivers are and always have/will be a part of F1, but that's ok too. I remind myself when I look at the Latifis and Pics that MSC was a pay driver as well when he first started driving at the top level of motorsports.

As far as the teams, they have had awhile to step up their game but haven't been able to put it all together. As a Merc and especially a LH44 fan I want nothing more than to see teams be competitive. I do still love the racing, almost more than winning!

Not poor...wtf Ferrari? Renault? McLaren? (McLaren gets a pass from me with their engine issues, though next year it's no excuses!)

 

[shogun32]

With 2 outfits dropping out of Electric series (despite EV being the politically anointed future) I wonder if F1 is really much for this world either.

 

[sk47]

current F1 drivers that would have a difficult time getting a seat in any series if they did have huge dollars behind them.

Hello; Yes they bring millions so get a seat.

despite EV being the politically anointed future)

Hello; Yes to this. It seems the powers that be have decided we are to drive battery cars no matter if we wish to or not. Side note- I do get the arguments against oil but do not think all electric vehicles are without their environmental problems.
Reminds me of back when in the USA it was decided that corn ethanol was to be added to gasoline. This was back when there was a fear oil stocks were thought to be seriously depleted and before fracking and other technologies reversed things for a while. Turned out the production and delivery of the ethanol used close to the amount of oil that the ethanol use saved.
On top of that was the changes that had to be made in vehicles to use the ethanol. Then there was the increase in world hunger and food prices because food grain wound up in fuel tanks.

 

[shogun32]

Then there was the increase in world hunger and food prices because food grain wound up in fuel tanks.

technically 'food' grain doesn't get processed into ethanol, rather the land use that could otherwise go to food, went to ethanol crops.

Farmers respond to incentives - freely or by force, and gov't distortion of markets/incentives can have long-tail repercussions that are quite bad/disasterous. I wouldn't want to know the total let alone global economic fall-out and mal-investment that was wrought by the ethanol "salvation".

 

[sk47]

Back to the current discussion about driver skill vs. the car. I guess there is some truth that in any competitive sport there are individuals who a a bit better than others. I still do not think in F1 cars the drivers are that far apart in driving skills. Pretty much all have good skills by the time they get a seat.
Some have the ability to drive fast but make bonehead mistakes over and over, often on the first lap. Others try to pass in places where it will not work too often. So even if they can pilot a car around very fast they are not good drivers. I do not always understand why some are still in seats after the blunders they make.

Over the decades I have followed F1 there have been plenty of races where, baring some sort of bad luck, a particular make finishes 1-2, then another make finishes 3-4, then another 5-6 and so on down the line. This appeared to hold true regardless of how the drivers switched seats. The best cars finished 1-2, the next best finished 2-3 if they had no unexpected problems. Regardless of drivers. I do not claim to have special information but this is how it has looked to me.

I have always felt a wet race made the greater distinction about drivers.

Sponsored