Ford Axing all cars except Mustang and Focus Active Crossover in North America

[Nameless]

I wonder how ford plans to keep their fleet emissions for the future since they axed the most efficient of their fleet

Going electric/Hybrid

Fusion is a good name for a cross between a car and CUV

This is the true Ford Fusion (for Europe). It was available between 2002 and 2012

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[jtmat]

Upgrade what, exactly?

Factories... to the "next best thing". Wishful thinking, I know.

I went though something similar though... had to stop one thing we had done for a long time to upgrade infrastructure to something else.

So they got talked into getting something they specifically had no intention of buying. To me, that means they let themselves get "up-sold", or in other words what the sales person wanted to put them in over what it was that they actually wanted.

And that is true... and that is the POINT... now Ford will miss those opportunities.... keep up!!!

My aunt and uncle could afford the up-sell so no biggie. ;)

. . . I sure can't call your aunt's and uncle's experience a "great decision" for them. For the sales person, though, it was exactly that.

Norm

It was great for Ford.

But the "great" comment was directed at the decision Ford made to pull the plug on certain vehicles.

Will it be a great decision by Ford? I don't know... we will certainly find out... those of us lucky to be around.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Factories... to the "next best thing". Wishful thinking, I know.

IOW, make the return of sedans to the lineup even less likely?

And that is true... and that is the POINT... now Ford will miss those opportunities.... keep up!!!

For the seller, sure. But I can't make letting oneself be up-sold sound like a good thing from the customer's point of view.

My aunt and uncle could afford the up-sell so no biggie. ;)

That much is fortunate, I suppose.

But it still meant that the sales person ran roughshod right over their preference like their input meant nothing. For me personally, any sustained attempt at that sort of up-sell would absolutely be a biggie, as in walk out of the dealership on the spot big. Even if I wasn't pre-disposed against SUVs/CUVs, or if it was an up-sell attempt among sedans, such as from Focus to Fusion or from Fusion to Taurus.

My wife might be even less tolerant of sales tactics.


Norm

 

[Dudie7]

Fiat has already done it. Look at their vehicle line up. I think Ford does a pretty good job of reading the writing on the wall. I don't believe this was a decision that was reached without significant consideration.

 

[16s550]

crazy. well hopefully they don't try to stop us from driving the stangs in the future.

 

[Loki-GT]

There are a lot more Ford products coming, just not in the "sedan" form factor.

And "Mach 1" is not a product name, it's a project name. A project to build a performance electric vehicle. Production name TBD. And except for the SUV (or maybe low roof SUV) factor that most of us don't like, the technology and performance will be terrific.

We need to broaden our thinking... we don't like where Ford is going now, but in 2-4 years much more will be apparent.

Drive a Tesla some time... I've driven several including a P100D in "insane mode". It's by far the fastest 4-door on earth, it has instant massive torque and high horsepower *everywhere* across the rev range. Instant huge grin. And with AWD it puts it *all* down... something that cannot be said for 99.9% of performance cars. This type of technology will usher in a new performance era... it is absolutely the future and the future is far faster than today. Look at the upcoming Tesla Roadster: 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. Granted, super expensive, and none of us here will be buying it, but the technology will spread into more performance form factors and wil be built in quantity to get the prices down.
Mods? Hell yes, people are already modding Teslas. Race series are even cropping up.

Then there is hybrid, where an electric engine is inline coupled to a gas engine to add it's torque and HP to the total. We'll see this in the Mustang and several other Ford products including the next RS and the F-150. You may have noticed it in the early Aviator announcements - with the 2.7TT hybrid engine! In the Mustang, stuck on the current chassis instead of one purposefully built to house the battery in the back, it'll be a patch job in it's first iteration. But later, when the next Mustang comes on it's new chassis, it'll be better packaged and more refined. In just a couple of year's we'll be modding these, there will tunes for it's 2.3 turbo EB first and then later tunes for the electric engine. Suspension tunes and appearance tunes of course - those won't stop.

Ford enthusiasts have always gone boldly forward... just like we gave up carbs (and now look back at them as a very narrow limiting factor), and cam-in-block (ridiculous), even Babbitt bearings.... we adopted the Fox, SN95, S197, S550, overdrive trans, along with fuel injection and overhead cams and now dual injection and 10-speeds. We will embrace electrics - cautiously at first, then enthusiastically, then the floodgates will open as more people personalize them in many ways.

The wife likes sedans, try telling your wife to broaden her thinking with regards to what she likes to drive, mine simply states a 4 door sedan, period.

Perhaps Ford creates an SUV etc... that strikes her fancy, that would be nice but not holding my breath. She is not a fan of their current designs so whatever they have up their sleeve better be different.

She could care less about tech, she is the typical female, she likes what she likes and Ford isn't going to tell her that her next car will be an SUV, CUV or whatever they're going to call them.

She will simply go to the company that builds a sedan, we'll see.

 

[UAmach1]

Fiat has already done it. Look at their vehicle line up. I think Ford does a pretty good job of reading the writing on the wall. I don't believe this was a decision that was reached without significant consideration.

Yeah but FCA coupe/sedan/hatch options have been horrible since they split with Mitsubishi. Even then they had horrible quality.

It wasn't until they brought back the Charger/Challenger that things started to pick up for them, and even then they offer large discounts.

The 200 may have sold better if its first gen wasn't just a rebadged Sebring, and it was more inspired by the 300. When an American luxury brand is trying to compete in price with the Altima, you have issues.

 

[c-rizzle]

Even Lamborghini is getting a CUV....

Yep.
"The new Urus sits on the Volkswagen Group’s MLB Evo architecture, which underpins the Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne and Bentley Bentayga, and it’s intended to perhaps double Lamborghini’s output to 7000 cars a year."

Porsche has probably quadripled its sales with its SUVs.

No one is adding car models. GM has been cutting the # of models, lines for years. There was too much diversity.... Saturn, Oldsmobile, etc.

The manufacturer choices for the future will be:

TRUCK: Utility, towing, work, and a nice plush ride... (F150, Sierra)
Large SUV: for heavy towing, plus 6-9 passengers (Yukon, Expedition types)
Mid SUV:6-8 passenger different size (Acadia, Explorer types)
Small SUV: 5-7 passenger (Terain, Escape)
mid size car: (Fusion, Cruse, or Taurus sized vehicles)
economy car: 4-5 passenger (Focus, Sonic)
sports car: (Mustang, Camaro)

You don't need 5 different model cars. Waste of money, R&D, etc. etc.

2 max: 1 economy size, 1 mid sized. I know Ford plans on axing more, but I think that they may end up keeping the Fusion or Taurus. I think they're going to need something bigger than a Focus.

Vehicles are becoming more of a commodity. Most millennials think cars are a waste and would rather carpool or uber, etc.

 

[UAmach1]

Yep.
"The new Urus sits on the Volkswagen Group’s MLB Evo architecture, which underpins the Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne and Bentley Bentayga, and it’s intended to perhaps double Lamborghini’s output to 7000 cars a year."

Porsche has probably quadripled its sales with its SUVs.

No one is adding car models. GM has been cutting the # of models, lines for years. There was too much diversity.... Saturn, Oldsmobile, etc.

The manufacturer choices for the future will be:

TRUCK: Utility, towing, work, and a nice plush ride... (F150, Sierra)
Large SUV: for heavy towing, plus 6-9 passengers (Yukon, Expedition types)
Mid SUV:6-8 passenger different size (Acadia, Explorer types)
Small SUV: 5-7 passenger (Terain, Escape)
mid size car: (Fusion, Cruse, or Taurus sized vehicles)
economy car: 4-5 passenger (Focus, Sonic)
sports car: (Mustang, Camaro)

You don't need 5 different model cars. Waste of money, R&D, etc. etc.

2 max: 1 economy size, 1 mid sized. I know Ford plans on axing more, but I think that they may end up keeping the Fusion or Taurus. I think they're going to need something bigger than a Focus.

Vehicles are becoming more of a commodity. Most millennials think cars are a waste and would rather carpool or uber, etc.

I actually don't know any millennials that feel that way except for ones that probably live IN a city and have no real place to put a car.

In fact I don't know ANY millennial without a car. Everyone I know with an SUV/CUV is in their 40's or older.

 

[itguy08]

Look at today's auto sales reports....

For the "Honda/Toyota/Nissan" can sell cars crowd....
Honda - down 9.2%
Toyota - down 4.7% (ironically same as Ford)
Nissan - down 28%
Mazda - down 4.6%

 

[UAmach1]

There are a lot more Ford products coming, just not in the "sedan" form factor.

And "Mach 1" is not a product name, it's a project name. A project to build a performance electric vehicle. Production name TBD. And except for the SUV (or maybe low roof SUV) factor that most of us don't like, the technology and performance will be terrific.

We need to broaden our thinking... we don't like where Ford is going now, but in 2-4 years much more will be apparent.

Drive a Tesla some time... I've driven several including a P100D in "insane mode". It's by far the fastest 4-door on earth, it has instant massive torque and high horsepower *everywhere* across the rev range. Instant huge grin. And with AWD it puts it *all* down... something that cannot be said for 99.9% of performance cars. This type of technology will usher in a new performance era... it is absolutely the future and the future is far faster than today. Look at the upcoming Tesla Roadster: 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. Granted, super expensive, and none of us here will be buying it, but the technology will spread into more performance form factors and wil be built in quantity to get the prices down.
Mods? Hell yes, people are already modding Teslas. Race series are even cropping up.

Then there is hybrid, where an electric engine is inline coupled to a gas engine to add it's torque and HP to the total. We'll see this in the Mustang and several other Ford products including the next RS and the F-150. You may have noticed it in the early Aviator announcements - with the 2.7TT hybrid engine! In the Mustang, stuck on the current chassis instead of one purposefully built to house the battery in the back, it'll be a patch job in it's first iteration. But later, when the next Mustang comes on it's new chassis, it'll be better packaged and more refined. In just a couple of year's we'll be modding these, there will tunes for it's 2.3 turbo EB first and then later tunes for the electric engine. Suspension tunes and appearance tunes of course - those won't stop.

Ford enthusiasts have always gone boldly forward... just like we gave up carbs (and now look back at them as a very narrow limiting factor), and cam-in-block (ridiculous), even Babbitt bearings.... we adopted the Fox, SN95, S197, S550, overdrive trans, along with fuel injection and overhead cams and now dual injection and 10-speeds. We will embrace electrics - cautiously at first, then enthusiastically, then the floodgates will open as more people personalize them in many ways.

Tesla I hope dies a slow painful death. Or even better, a factory explodes. I hate EVERYTHING about that company and find its cars to be totally soulless to drive. People keep screaming for the big 3 to be like Tesla but Tesla has quality issues, supply issues, worker rights issues, funding issues, delivery issues, I can go on.

Have you ever seen those "tesla mods" ? Its just brake kits, springs and appearance stuff. About the only thing you can do to a Tesla is "rice" it.

Investors want "edgy" not "delivering solid products. Edgy creates bubbles. Creating solid products helps you survive those bubbles.

 

[Norm Peterson]

There are a lot more Ford products coming, just not in the "sedan" form factor.

And "Mach 1" is not a product name, it's a project name. A project to build a performance electric vehicle. Production name TBD. And except for the SUV (or maybe low roof SUV) factor that most of us don't like, the technology and performance will be terrific.

Sounds like a lot of hope going on there . . . and if the form factor and one or two other attributes are big enough negatives it may not even be possible to throw enough performance at it to overcome them. Or such a vehicle would occupy a niche so narrowly defined that no average buyer would go near it. Or be financially able to.

Ford enthusiasts have always gone boldly forward... just like we gave up carbs (and now look back at them as a very narrow limiting factor), and cam-in-block (ridiculous), even Babbitt bearings.... we adopted the Fox, SN95, S197, S550, overdrive trans, along with fuel injection and overhead cams and now dual injection and 10-speeds.

Any wholesale shift to electrics most likely represents a bigger change than all of those in your list put together. If it does happen, it'll happen a lot faster than the better part of 100 years it took for all of those incremental changes to become the "new normal". Stated in somewhat different terms, about 4 full generations of drivers - you'd have to be able to compare your values against those of your great-grandparents and imagine their shock at being dropped back into today's world.


Norm

 

[pike1346]

Foolish. Very short-term thinking.

I agree. Are they betting fuel prices to drop and big SUV's and trucks are the new norm????? Bad bet. Gas prices already rising quickly..... The US is exporting gas to Europe, and OPEC is cutting output and they want to get rid of compacts. Guess they did not learn from history

 

[Bravo]

I agree. Are they betting fuel prices to drop and big SUV's and trucks are the new norm????? Bad bet. Gas prices already rising quickly..... The US is exporting gas to Europe, and OPEC is cutting output and they want to get rid of compacts. Guess they did not learn from history

It has nothing to do with fuel prices. 20mpg SUVs/Crossovers are a thing of the past. New direct inject tech (especially on a hybrid platform) will allow manufacturers to get 30+ mpg or more out of rather large vehicles.

I've already said this one - I don't care where you are in the country. Make note of Sedans vs SUVs / Trucks while driving down the road. There are hard statistics behind Ford's decision, and we simply disagree because we're the minority.

Combine sales numbers with the fact that all of Ford's sedans were up for redesign in model and you have the perfect scenario for Ford to scrap the sedan and actually make money.

 

[Loki-GT]

It has nothing to do with fuel prices. 20mpg SUVs/Crossovers are a thing of the past. New direct inject tech (especially on a hybrid platform) will allow manufacturers to get 30+ mpg or more out of rather large vehicles.

I've already said this one - I don't care where you are in the country. Make note of Sedans vs SUVs / Trucks while driving down the road. There are hard statistics behind Ford's decision, and we simply disagree because we're the minority.

Combine sales numbers with the fact that all of Ford's sedans were up for redesign in model and you have the perfect scenario for Ford to scrap the sedan and actually make money.

I can understand the making money part 35 years ago when a Mustang GT cost around 10k and margins were thin. Margins are no longer that thin.

Today the cost of the car can double or more with options, Ford is making a crap ton of money. The new honcho in charge wants much larger margins because the insane mark ups they have for various packages isn't bloated enough and they mix peices from each of them to make you buy more to get what you want.

Back in the day you didn't need to save for a decade to buy a car, these days a well optioned Mustang GT goes for deep in the 40's which explains why so many buyers are in IT and other well paid jobs to afford them.

Cars are getting ridiculous and SUV's CUV's whatever they come up with will be even more so. The Eco-Sport is a pile of dung, I drove one, they squeezed a Focus into a taller shape and called it an Eco-Sport.

If this is the new direction of Ford they can have it, I have a Ford Edge, the designers seemed to forget that people use them in the winter and you can't lift the wipers out of the way like you can on every single other car on the planet, but it goes through snow well and gets decent mileage and I needed it for work, otherwise I would have bought an MKZ.

All we can do is see where they are in mid 2019 when we start seeing them showing up. Maybe Ford will hit this one out of the park, with the new guy in charge, my hopes aren't high, but we'll see.


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