For the MT owners: how do you downshift?

[Shibby]

I rev match, but if I'm coming to a stop I just go straight into neutral.

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[fionic]

Dragging the clutch on a downshift just sounds and feels wrong to me.

that's because it IS wrong. I have no idea why these people keep coming out and saying they do this. It must be horrible riding with them.

 

[Asharus]

we have a coworker we go to lunch with and he downshifts w/o revmatching all the time. i get whiplash from it.

 

[krahooligan]

rev match all the time. or try to at least. ive gotten pretty good at it. to the point where I can rev it, and let the clutch out and it feels like nothing happened. wife is a fan. as she likes to drink or do something in the car when I shift and now she doesn't end up wearing whatever she is drinking. haha.
as for double clutch. I have no Idea. ive tried but it seems like too much. clutch in, neutral, clutch out. clutch in shift, clutch out. right? idk. too much to do

 

[Horse]

After re-reading these posts, I'll say that I do rev match -- but would also note that I haven't done it while heel-toeing in a long time -- if I'm engine braking, I don't feel a need to blip with my heel -- and I can always grab the brakes in between shifts -- so you can drop a gear while leaving your foot on the gas to match the revs without blipping, get on the brakes, and if you need to drop another gear before accelerating, do that, and get back on the gas to accelerate. I'm assuming that those heel-toeing are doing it to combine braking with engine braking -- that's the logical assumption, and not just to drop to the correct gear to exit a corner. Similarly, when you slow down in traffic or going up to a light, you can shift into neutral, and then when you need to accelerate, just select the gear you need for that -- or to maintain speed, etc.

Maybe I didn't quite understand what you were saying. But here are my comments.

1) Heel-toe is to perform braking, downshifting and rev-matching at the same time. This is why it is not so trivial to do. If you just do braking and downshifting without rev-match, then you just brake with your right foot and (de)clutch with the left; but this will lead to rough gear change (due to lack of rev match).

2) My personal philosophy is that one should not use the impact of `slower engine hitting faster clutch (connected to the wheels)' as engine braking. The way I (prefer to) do engine braking is to shift to a lower gear with rev-match (so everything is smooth) and then let engine braking takes effect (because it takes more energy for the engine, now connected to a lower gear and without fuel, to turn). It is only in super critical situations where I dearly need to stop that I might consider taking advantage of the impact of `slower engine hitting faster clutch (connected to the wheels)' in order to slow down the car more effectively (but at the cost of the clutch and transmission).

 

[mikeyjobu]

Maybe I didn't quite understand what you were saying. But here are my comments.

1) Heel-toe is to perform braking, downshifting and rev-matching at the same time. This is why it is not so trivial to do. If you just do braking and downshifting without rev-match, then you just brake with your right foot and (de)clutch with the left; but this will lead to rough gear change (due to lack of rev match).

2) My personal philosophy is that one should not use the impact of `slower engine hitting faster clutch (connected to the wheels)' as engine braking. The way I (prefer to) do engine braking is to shift to a lower gear with rev-match (so everything is smooth) and then let engine braking takes effect (because it takes more energy for the engine, now connected to a lower gear and without fuel, to turn). It is only in super critical situations where I dearly need to stop that I might consider taking advantage of the impact of `slower engine hitting faster clutch (connected to the wheels)' in order to slow down the car more effectively (but at the cost of the clutch and transmission).

Yes. Maybe you didn't understand me.

 

[Horse]

Yes. Maybe you didn't understand me.

:cheers:

 

[Charles147]

Double clutching and heel-toe'ing are two slightly different things and are not interchangeable terms for the same thing.

My bad for using the slash "/"...I know better. I know the two are different.

Regardless, this topic is getting old and nobody has addressed my original point. Post up some videos in a 15.

 

[Horse]

My bad for using the slash "/"...I know better. I know the two are different.

Regardless, this topic is getting old and nobody has addressed my original point. Post up some videos in a 15.

Well, I use "/" in place of "or". When I type "A/B", it means "A or B" or "A and B", in which A and B do not necessarily mean the same.

Example: please clean the gloves/shoes.

No? (Someone please correct me if I am wrong.)

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm assuming that those heel-toeing are doing it to combine braking with engine braking -- that's the logical assumption, and not just to drop to the correct gear to exit a corner.

Wrong logic. You should be braking hard enough that the contribution from engine compression is negligible. If you're not braking that hard, you don't need to be H-T'ing.

It's kind of hard to describe this kind of situation to people who have never done panic-level braking without the panic being the only reason they're braking that hard and where coming to a full stop is not the desired end result. If you haven't ever intentionally tried to brake just shy of getting the ABS involved, you aren't even going to fully understand the braking part of this. Let alone imagine trying to squeeze in a downshift while you're in the middle of your almost-at-the-limit braking.

Similarly, when you slow down in traffic or going up to a light, you can shift into neutral, and then when you need to accelerate, just select the gear you need for that -- or to maintain speed, etc.

What I do in traffic is try to keep the car in whatever gear puts the engine at an rpm where it will accelerate easily. Above where it would be lugging and below where the revs are needlessly high for the situation. So if traffic slows without completely stopping, I'll downshift "as appropriate". Same thing approaching a traffic light, if it looks like it might change to green before I get there. Coasting in neutral for more than a few feet at the very end of a stop where you'll be sitting there waiting for a few moments is just plain wrong, and it's arguable whether being in neutral even then is really right or not.


Norm

 

[Asharus]

norm gets it

 

[MagneticA]

There were about 3 or 4 of us genuinely working through proper comma usage on a different thread last night. Woke up this morning to find it removed... otherwise I'd jump right in and comment.

 

[Old Car Guy]

I

If I'm In 6th gear and want to go into 5th gear, I just slap it up into 5th gear, and I don't even use the clutch..... That the way I Down shift, I'm hoping this helps everyone on this Subject on Down Shifting...... Ha! Have fun on this, about down shifting...... You should have bought the car that you put in the D mode and just push on the gas...... Just keep trying you will learn..... Good luck... John

 

[Horse]

There were about 3 or 4 of us genuinely working through proper comma usage on a different thread last night. Woke up this morning to find it removed... otherwise I'd jump right in and comment.

Yeah. I don't understand why they got removed. It does not hurt to talk about grammar.

 

[Norm Peterson]

My bad for using the slash "/"...I know better. I know the two are different.

Regardless, this topic is getting old and nobody has addressed my original point. Post up some videos in a 15.

I would, but I only have an '08.

But I might be able to get one that would show double clutching in a street environment if you'd like.


Norm

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