fl-2087 shortage situation

[Tomster]

Not to be a jackwagon - but since this has turned into splitting filter fibers while exactly 14 angles dance on the head of a pin sort of thread...

Ford legally can't mandate a particular filter - at least in the US - the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) prevents that... period.

No matter what they print in their manual - they can not mandate that you do not use an alternative filter. And just about every car manual out there tells you to use an OEM filter... because - it's OEM - and they know it fits.

It is notable that for the GT500 - the filter recommendation in the manual does not ALSO include the typical text "[if the OEM filter]...is not available, use an oil filter that meets industry performance
specification... [some spec here]"...
This omission does lend a bit of weight to the argument that OEM is the only "right" filter for the GT500...
Almost all manuals also include some warning as well about the use of a non-OEM part could cause some sort of damage, issue, performance, whatever...

BUT... if you do choose to use a non-OEM part - AND there is a failure - AND it is determined through an investigation (that Ford does) that failure came for said non-OEM part... they can deny a claim. But the law is pretty specific here - it must be clearly traceable to the non-OEM part to deny a claim.

I'm making that point because sometimes the language used in posts suggest any claim about anything can be denied if you use a non-OEM part anywhere - and that is very much not true.

The fundamental difference between the FL2087 and anything else out there is the metal sleeve inside the filter. If there were aftermarket filters that met the exact same spec, I'd agree. However, the other filters don't have that and that would be grounds to say the filter isn't compatible.

As Don mentioned, there is no proof anywhere of what causes these crushed filters. I will say that I used to run a 2062 in my triple yellow R model full out on the track and I have never experienced a crushed filter. But Ford went out of their way to redesign the 2087 with the one key difference, the metal reinforcement sleeve.

If you are using a filter that does not have that sleeve, or is specified by the manufacturer and recognized by Ford to be equivalent, you possibly could be looking at problems should there be one.

Keep in mind that your comment above pertaining to the part causing the problem is fundamentally correct. But you also have to use parts that are equivalent and suitable for the application. My position is that there is no FL2087 equivalent.

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[fishpick]

My position is that there is no FL2087 equivalent.

Anyone that does not understand your position at this point in the thread should not be driving

 

[Tomster]

Anyone that does not understand your position at this point in the thread should not be driving

Yea, but Im all about freedom of choice as well. When the filters couldn't be found and I had to choose between not driving and using a 2062? I would have used the 2062 and accepted that risk. But I don't know what the big deal is anymore. The link provided in the other thread is still working and the supply of filters is readily available.

Its amazing what a couple of phone calls can get done.

 

[WItoTX]

Not to be a jackwagon - but since this has turned into splitting filter fibers while exactly 14 angles dance on the head of a pin sort of thread...

Ford legally can't mandate a particular filter - at least in the US - the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) prevents that... period.

No matter what they print in their manual - they can not mandate that you do not use an alternative filter. And just about every car manual out there tells you to use an OEM filter... because - it's OEM - and they know it fits.

It is notable that for the GT500 - the filter recommendation in the manual does not ALSO include the typical text "[if the OEM filter]...is not available, use an oil filter that meets industry performance
specification... [some spec here]"...
This omission does lend a bit of weight to the argument that OEM is the only "right" filter for the GT500...
Almost all manuals also include some warning as well about the use of a non-OEM part could cause some sort of damage, issue, performance, whatever...

BUT... if you do choose to use a non-OEM part - AND there is a failure - AND it is determined through an investigation (that Ford does) that failure came for said non-OEM part... they can deny a claim. But the law is pretty specific here - it must be clearly traceable to the non-OEM part to deny a claim.

I'm making that point because sometimes the language used in posts suggest any claim about anything can be denied if you use a non-OEM part anywhere - and that is very much not true.

The two bolded sections are key. While Ford MIGHT lose on the MMWA, their lawyers cost them very little to their bottom line. Let's just say the legal fee's cost them $500,000. On the other hand, your own lawyers will impact your bottom line WAY more than Ford. Imagine your legal fee's were just $50,000. You already got a new motor right there, and then some. So is it a battle worth fighting?

And your second point. That omission is huge. I read and analyze contracts for a living, and we have used exactly the point you make in many cases, and of which mediators, arbitration panels, and judges have all sided with.

 

[gww52]

I was at my local dealership Friday and he still can't get filters.I got two from South Bay Ford but of course no O-Rings.Give him the P/N and on backorder also but 6000 were supposed to be released midweek.Went back and looked at the oil filter order and it still says material hold.Maybe the reason we couldn't get filters was no O-Rings? We'll see how long it takes to get them.

 

[Tomster]

I was at my local dealership Friday and he still can't get filters.I got two from South Bay Ford but of course no O-Rings.Give him the P/N and on backorder also but 6000 were supposed to be released midweek.Went back and looked at the oil filter order and it still says material hold.Maybe the reason we couldn't get filters was no O-Rings? We'll see how long it takes to get them.

South bay Ford has the orings......

 

[gww52]

Thanks

 

[Cedric]

Hello everyone. still without fl-2087, despite the emails sent to the given link. no big deal, it's the complexity of living in france. do you have any new information on the situation of the filters? still in short supply?
thank you my brothers

 

[lightrules]

Hello everyone. still without fl-2087, despite the emails sent to the given link. no big deal, it's the complexity of living in france. do you have any new information on the situation of the filters? still in short supply?
thank you my brothers

i got an extra 2087 if you want it. never shipped anything to france before but if you want to cover my cost for the filter and the shipping i'm happy to send it out. i have no idea how much it costs to ship. just message me.

 

[Cedric]

hello thank you that's nice. do you have an email address where I can send you more information on my address and name for the shipment?
thank you

 

[Homebrw]

That's what makes this place great! Good on ya @lightrules . Félicitations OP! Les États Unis aide La France encore. Bon résultat.

 

[lightrules]

That's what makes this place great! Good on ya @lightrules . Félicitations OP! Les États Unis aide La France encore. Bon résultat.

hopefully works out. shipped from CA to France this past Tues via USPS, cheapest was 1st class $17 and they said tracking is iffy lol. should take 2-3 weeks. the wait begins...

 

[Cedric]

hopefully works out. shipped from CA to France this past Tues via USPS, cheapest was 1st class $17 and they said tracking is iffy lol. should take 2-3 weeks. the wait begins...

hi bro ok thank you. it's great. fingers crossed. today i got my shelby back. I put a ppf protection and even a carbon one. I need to complete my certification. and to complete the overhaul with the oil filter. Finally, I hope. thanks to you

 

[Angrey]

The two bolded sections are key. While Ford MIGHT lose on the MMWA, their lawyers cost them very little to their bottom line. Let's just say the legal fee's cost them $500,000. On the other hand, your own lawyers will impact your bottom line WAY more than Ford. Imagine your legal fee's were just $50,000. You already got a new motor right there, and then some. So is it a battle worth fighting?

And your second point. That omission is huge. I read and analyze contracts for a living, and we have used exactly the point you make in many cases, and of which mediators, arbitration panels, and judges have all sided with.

I'd rather not have an issue than have a strong legal argument.

I can't count the number of times I and companies I work for have been in situations where we could fight and win (at the certainty of significant delay and the possibility of significant cost, both from consequential impacts of delay and potential legal costs, which are never certain to be reimbursed even in victory).

Given that someone would most likely need to be actually harmed by Ford's actions (or demonstrate likely and immediate future harm) the legal ins and outs of this issue aren't likely to change.

In essence, it's a better than speculative chance that a dealer might deny a significant warranty claim based on non-specified filter usage (based on all the instances of them denying for other chincy details).

So the risk analysis becomes,

Low risk of failure (but still present) for filter collapse.

Low risk of failure (not associated with the filter)

Debatable risk of a claim denial

Certain lengthy and frustrating fight if a claim is denied.

Vs. Spend the extra $20 and a little extra time and frustration to get the 2087.

Each person will evaluate that risk and assign values according to their own needs and circumstances.

If a warranty were important to me, and recognizing the potential delay of a repaired car, I personally wouldn't try to ice skate uphill over $20.

Each person should act according to their risk profile.

 

[Tomster]

I'd rather not have an issue than have a strong legal argument.

I can't count the number of times I and companies I work for have been in situations where we could fight and win (at the certainty of significant delay and the possibility of significant cost, both from consequential impacts of delay and potential legal costs, which are never certain to be reimbursed even in victory).

Given that someone would most likely need to be actually harmed by Ford's actions (or demonstrate likely and immediate future harm) the legal ins and outs of this issue aren't likely to change.

In essence, it's a better than speculative chance that a dealer might deny a significant warranty claim based on non-specified filter usage (based on all the instances of them denying for other chincy details).

So the risk analysis becomes,

Low risk of failure (but still present) for filter collapse.

Low risk of failure (not associated with the filter)

Debatable risk of a claim denial

Certain lengthy and frustrating fight if a claim is denied.

Vs. Spend the extra $20 and a little extra time and frustration to get the 2087.

Each person will evaluate that risk and assign values according to their own needs and circumstances.

If a warranty were important to me, and recognizing the potential delay of a repaired car, I personally wouldn't try to ice skate uphill over $20.

Each person should act according to their risk profile.

Bravo, maestro! Bravo. I couldn't have said it better myself.

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