EV's.......... 😂😂😂😂😂

[Joshinator99]

What about the tire particles from big pickups and SUVs? That doesn't count, despite out-selling EVs by more than 20 to 1?

OK, I’ll bite on this… SO, convert all those “big pickups and SUVs” into their counterpart EV versions…what happens? Weight goes up 20+%, along the tire particles and roadway wear. Plus even more electrical load that our grid cannot handle.

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[sk47]

What about the tire particles from big pickups and SUVs? That doesn't count, despite out-selling EVs by more than 20 to 1?

OK, I’ll bite on this… SO, convert all those “big pickups and SUVs” into their counterpart EV versions…what happens? Weight goes up 20+%, along the tire particles and roadway wear. Plus even more electrical load that our grid cannot handle.

Hello; Blair14 you are correct in that the current bigger and heavier ICE vehicles are wearing tires more than lighter vehicles whether they are ICE or EV's. Such is the nature of bigger & heavier vehicles. But alas this is not the crux of the discussion.

Joshinator99 is correct in that if all vehicles become EV's, even the pickups and SUV's then all vehicles on the road will be perhaps 20% heavier. This is the known nature of an EV. An EV must haul around the battery packs which are heavier than filled fossil fuel tanks. This is the crux of the matter.

Now if the populations of vehicles could remain the same as currently the ICE would indeed be shedding more tire particles simply because there are over 90% more of them on the roads. A serious problem with trying to condemn current ICE while at the same time appearing to laude EV's is the stated agendas of the GREEN & EV champions. ICE are to banned and eventually only EV's are to be allowed on the roads.
If we existed in a sane world a compromise could be reached. However, lines are drawn and no prospect of compromise is being shown. I do not know if the mix of trucks and SUV's will persist in an all EV world. I do doubt such. Current EV pickups are simply not able to do real pickup jobs except perhaps short haul jobs.
That sane world I can only imagine right now would not lock one technology in so soon in a transition. A goal would be set and would allow which ever technology to compete to meet that goal.
I get that a cult like following has surrounded the notion of EV's being clean and green. Took me some time to ferret out the many not so green aspects of EV's and GREEN energy.
I do admit to being older. I am comfortable with ICE and fossil fuel generated electricity. Not merely due to nostalgia. Mainly because they are known to work.

majority of the "6g" crowd are older folks. Its like telling your grandpa to learn how to use a modern smartphone. Don't bother. they like how things were/are.

Hello; Oh, that this were true. All younger folks would have to do is wait us out. Let us putter around in our ICE's while younger folks zip around in the new and better EV's. Hybrids got a small foothold in the early 2000's. I think maybe around 2010 the first true BEV's became available. My take is if they had been truly better they would be the hot ticket by now. Even us old folks know a better deal when one comes along. My house is full of LED's.
An affordable EV to do most of my running around would appeal to me. Such does not exist yet. Even if a pure EV could be bought for less than a similar ICE I would still have to have an extra 40 to 50 amps of free space out of my breaker box to have a home charger installed. If i do not already have that 40-50 amps of service, it will then cost a lot to change my home service.
You, Freedom, have two EV's so I can respect your comments. If you have home charging tell us about it.

 

[Freedom]

Hello; Blair14 you are correct in that the current bigger and heavier ICE vehicles are wearing tires more than lighter vehicles whether they are ICE or EV's. Such is the nature of bigger & heavier vehicles. But alas this is not the crux of the discussion.

Joshinator99 is correct in that if all vehicles become EV's, even the pickups and SUV's then all vehicles on the road will be perhaps 20% heavier. This is the known nature of an EV. An EV must haul around the battery packs which are heavier than filled fossil fuel tanks. This is the crux of the matter.

Now if the populations of vehicles could remain the same as currently the ICE would indeed be shedding more tire particles simply because there are over 90% more of them on the roads. A serious problem with trying to condemn current ICE while at the same time appearing to laude EV's is the stated agendas of the GREEN & EV champions. ICE are to banned and eventually only EV's are to be allowed on the roads.
If we existed in a sane world a compromise could be reached. However, lines are drawn and no prospect of compromise is being shown. I do not know if the mix of trucks and SUV's will persist in an all EV world. I do doubt such. Current EV pickups are simply not able to do real pickup jobs except perhaps short haul jobs.
That sane world I can only imagine right now would not lock one technology in so soon in a transition. A goal would be set and would allow which ever technology to compete to meet that goal.
I get that a cult like following has surrounded the notion of EV's being clean and green. Took me some time to ferret out the many not so green aspects of EV's and GREEN energy.
I do admit to being older. I am comfortable with ICE and fossil fuel generated electricity. Not merely due to nostalgia. Mainly because they are known to work.

Hello; Oh, that this were true. All younger folks would have to do is wait us out. Let us putter around in our ICE's while younger folks zip around in the new and better EV's. Hybrids got a small foothold in the early 2000's. I think maybe around 2010 the first true BEV's became available. My take is if they had been truly better they would be the hot ticket by now. Even us old folks know a better deal when one comes along. My house is full of LED's.
An affordable EV to do most of my running around would appeal to me. Such does not exist yet. Even if a pure EV could be bought for less than a similar ICE I would still have to have an extra 40 to 50 amps of free space out of my breaker box to have a home charger installed. If i do not already have that 40-50 amps of service, it will then cost a lot to change my home service.
You, Freedom, have two EV's so I can respect your comments. If you have home charging tell us about it.

Both my Tesla and ford can travel 300+ miles on a full charge. 120V can get about 5 miles an hour charging. I have a level 2 charger installed at home that’s outputs 240v 48 amps. That gets me 44 miles of range per hour of charging. I charge at night because we opted for the time of day rate with our electricity provider. Where electricity is cheaper during non peak hours or weekends. No range anxiety with me, I can answer any other questions if you guys are actually interested about EVs.


Not installing 240v and using a dryer outlet is an option. People sell a “switch” that you plug your dryer and ev charger into. If it detects load on the dryer side it turns off the ev charger. Nifty device for people who can’t do 240v dedicated. This is less power than the dedicated charger install. 22 miles an hour with this setup.


aerodynamics and cold weather plays a huge roll in actual EV range though. If i travel 80mph instead of 70 mph, the f150 lightning does lose 20% of its capable range. Far less on the Tesla model 3 due to its superior aero. Also in sub zero weather, EVs do lose 30% of their capable range.

 

[sk47]

Both my Tesla and ford can travel 300+ miles on a full charge. 120V can get about 5 miles an hour charging. I have a level 2 charger installed at home that’s outputs 240v 48 amps. That gets me 44 miles of range per hour of charging. I charge at night because we opted for the time of day rate with our electricity provider. Where electricity is cheaper during non peak hours or weekends. No range anxiety with me, I can answer any other questions if you guys are actually interested about EVs.


Not installing 240v and using a dryer outlet is an option. People sell a “switch” that you plug your dryer and ev charger into. If it detects load on the dryer side it turns off the ev charger. Nifty device for people who can’t do 240v dedicated. This is less power than the dedicated charger install. 22 miles an hour with this setup.


aerodynamics and cold weather plays a huge roll in actual EV range though. If i travel 80mph instead of 70 mph, the f150 lightning does lose 20% of its capable range. Far less on the Tesla model 3 due to its superior aero. Also in sub zero weather, EVs do lose 30% of their capable range.

Hello; My basic question to start is the cost of instillation of a level 2 charger. Say i have the required amount of free amperage in my breaker box.

 

[Freedom]

Hello; My basic question to start is the cost of instillation of a level 2 charger. Say i have the required amount of free amperage in my breaker box.

The 48amp charger costs $450 from Tesla. This may be rebatable from your local provider. I paid $500 for an electrician to install wiring from the breaker into my garage and the Tesla charger.

 

[sk47]

I can answer any other questions if you guys are actually interested about EVs.

Hello; let me be clearer about my stances. I am not yet convinced EV's are very clean nor that they are a solution for me. That said my main gripe within the current situation is the "force" being used to upset my world. I do not have a hate for an EV any more than for an electric air compressor or other useful tool or appliance. Because of the various mandates and anti-fossil fuel agendas I will continue to rail against the forced adoption of an all EV fleet of vehicles. I did not have to be forced to use LED lights. When the cost versus electricity savings made sense I began to replace my old bulbs.

I do not intend to gaslight you about this. I will continue to point out the flaws known about EV's. I do not plan at this point to have an EV. I do want to understand what is involved with owning one.

The 48amp charger costs $450 from Tesla. This may be rebatable from your local provider. I paid $500 for an electrician to install wiring from the breaker into my garage and the Tesla charger.

This is much more reasonable than I expected. My cost will be some higher because i do not want to have an EV in my basement garage. I have a stick built carport maybe 30 feet from my house and probably 75 feet from my breaker box. I would have to run around an O6 gauge set of wires to that carport.

I ran a line to a 240 outlet near my basement door. I run a 240 air compressor and/or a 240 Lincoln Dc welder from it. With a long enough cord, I could slow charge an EV without a level 2 home charger and keep the EV away from the house a bit.

 

[Balr14]

OK, I’ll bite on this… SO, convert all those “big pickups and SUVs” into their counterpart EV versions…what happens? Weight goes up 20+%, along the tire particles and roadway wear. Plus even more electrical load that our grid cannot handle.

I'm speaking of real world, not hypotheticals that will never occur. What you imagine will never occur, certainly not with existing battery technology.

 

[sk47]

I'm speaking of real world, not hypotheticals that will never occur. What you imagine will never occur, certainly not with existing battery technology.

Hello; You confuse me with this comment. In the real world currently EV's are a small % of vehicles on the road so a very small contributor to tire particulates. It is not however hypothetical that there is a concerted push to ban ICE from the roads. The consequences, intended and not are real right now. Manufacturers are having to spend billions to make a product very few folks are willing to buy so far.
For what it is worth I do hope you are correct in that EV's do not replace ICE overall if that is what you suggest.

I also share your sentiments about current battery technology. Li-ion and other such are worlds better than lead -acid I grew up with. But even so current battery tech is still limited as you appear to suggest. An EV can work well in particular circumstances but far from all or even most.

When i was a child I watched an uncle work on brakes. Drum brakes. He blew the dust away and i was right beside him. Back then asbestos was common in brake and clutch linings. Now it is not. I hope tire tech can be made better no matter if for ICE or EV's.

I was possibly mistaken about your posts before. I thought you were saying the extra weight of EV's did not matter with regard to tire wear. I see that perhaps you were contending EV's will never exist in numbers large enough to outdo ICE tire wear particles. If so I can agree tire particulates will be greater from ICE as long as they dominate as vehicles on the road.

I can recall being at Bristol in the late 1950's early 1960's on the concrete bleachers. After the race we would have a dusting of tire bits all over us.

 

[sk47]

The 48amp charger costs $450 from Tesla. This may be rebatable from your local provider. I paid $500 for an electrician to install wiring from the breaker into my garage and the Tesla charger.

Hello; By the way thanks for this answer. Accurate information from someone who has taken the plunge into the EV world is of value. For such i am grateful.

 

[Joshinator99]

I'm speaking of real world, not hypotheticals that will never occur. What you imagine will never occur, certainly not with existing battery technology.

Wait, so the Hummer EV, Ford Lightning, Tesla Cybertruck, et al don’t exist…?!? That’s news to me. You know Chevy has an EV Silverado launching this summer too, right? This “never will occur” is literally happening as we speak…

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/...l shown.,availability expected Summer of 2024.

 

[Balr14]

Wait, so the Hummer EV, Ford Lightning, Tesla Cybertruck, et al don’t exist…?!? That’s news to me. You know Chevy has an EV Silverado launching this summer too, right? This “never will occur” is literally happening as we speak…

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/silverado-ev#:~:text=model will vary.-,Silverado EV WT preproduction model shown.,availability expected Summer of 2024.

So what, just because they can make them doesn't mean enough people will buy them to have an impact. Ford, GM and Dodge have sold almost 2m trucks this year, not counting SUVs. How many EV trucks have sold? How many EV cars? So, who is causing more tire pollution?

EVs will weigh less than ICE vehicles, have range of 600 miles and charge in just a few minutes, before they have significant market share to be a concern. That will occur after most of us here are dead.

 

[Joshinator99]

So what, just because they can make them doesn't mean enough people will buy them to have an impact. Ford, GM and Dodge have sold almost 2m trucks this year, not counting SUVs. How many EV trucks have sold? How many EV cars? So, who is causing more tire pollution?

EVs will weigh less than ICE vehicles, have range of 600 miles and charge in just a few minutes, before they have significant market share to be a concern. That will occur after most of us here are dead.

The whole point of watching trends is to identify major problems BEFORE they happen! Our countries leadership can’t see the forest for the trees and is making these major pushes into EV tech way too soon. I suspect we’re in agreement on that point. It’s not about who’s causing more pollution now, it’s what the effects of new policy will cause.

EVs do NOT weigh less, have lengthy charging times, and have significantly worse range. Until that changes, you’re living in fantasy land about EV viability in the marketplace. Meanwhile people are buying EVs and getting a very raw deal. Look at Hertz taking an absolute bloodbath in their one venture into EVs… losing billions of dollars!

 

[shogun32]

$7.5 billion in investments for electric vehicles has - in two years - produced just 7 charging stations across four states.

The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, signed by Biden in November 2021, allocated $7.5 billion for EV charging, the Washington Post writes. Of this amount, $5 billion went to states as "formula funding" for the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure program to establish a network of fast chargers along major highways.

Today, there's seven chargers with a total of just 38 parking spots.

 

[Balr14]

EVs do NOT weigh less, have lengthy charging times, and have significantly worse range. Until that changes, you’re living in fantasy land about EV viability in the marketplace. Meanwhile people are buying EVs and getting a very raw deal. Look at Hertz taking an absolute bloodbath in their one venture into EVs… losing billions of dollars!

I have no illusions about the viability of EVs in their current form. I'll never own one; I'll be long dead before I'd consider them a reasonable alternative to ICE vehicles. But, I get pissed by click-bait articles that just incite the right/left (depending on content). We don't need more division in this country, but that seems to be a favorite means of gaining web traffic. Pollution caused by EV tires is simply meaningless nonsense, on top of other EV issues. I'm sure I'm wasting my time trying to point out horseshit, in these forums, all things considered. I think it's time I moved on.

 

[sk47]

I have no illusions about the viability of EVs in their current form. I'll never own one; I'll be long dead before I'd consider them a reasonable alternative to ICE vehicles. But, I get pissed by click-bait articles that just incite the right/left (depending on content). We don't need more division in this country, but that seems to be a favorite means of gaining web traffic. Pollution caused by EV tires is simply meaningless nonsense, on top of other EV issues. I'm sure I'm wasting my time trying to point out horseshit, in these forums, all things considered. I think it's time I moved on.

Hello; Over a series of some posts I was confused as to what message you were trying to get across. Might be I still am. I tried to summarize in a recent post my interpretation of your stance so as to avoid misunderstandings. A thing is you do not have to give me an answer. Such is not your responsibility.

I was possibly mistaken about your posts before. I thought you were saying the extra weight of EV's did not matter with regard to tire wear. I see that perhaps you were contending EV's will never exist in numbers large enough to outdo ICE tire wear particles. If so I can agree tire particulates will be greater from ICE as long as they dominate as vehicles on the road.

Another thing is perhaps others are also getting incorrect impressions from your posts. Perhaps thinking you are defending EV's when your stance is they will never sell enough to matter much.

But you are correct in some respects. We are involved in an us vs. them sort of situation. I fear this cannot be avoided mainly because this transition to EV's is being forced onto us and is not a market driven phenomena.

I am guilty of jumping to conclusions and do first challenge posts which appear to favor or champion the adoption of EV's for all. I may contribute to the division more than is needed. I like you do not plan to have an EV. I am old so may not be around long enough to be forced into one. For younger folks simply aging out will not work. There are powerful agents at high levels pushing the EV and related green agendas. Laws for entire states are in place mandating no ICE sales by dates certain. Alphabet agencies such as EPA have declared new rules and reinterpreted old rules with direct impacts on fossil fuel availability and costs. Guess what i am driving at is this is not some fly in the pan thing which will pass because of it's own shortcomings. Too many pushing too hard and they are serious.

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