EV's.......... 😂😂😂😂😂

[Balr14]

The problem with that "study" is it cherry picks data. Current EVs don't weigh any more than comparable car models. For example, a Tesla model 3 weighs 3600- 4200lbs. In addition, the most popular vehicles sold in this country are large pickup trucks and SUVs, weighing 5000 - 6000lbs. I'm not an EV fan, but that "study" is ridiculous.

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[sk47]

The problem with that "study" is it cherry picks data. Current EVs don't weigh any more than comparable car models. For example, a Tesla model 3 weighs 3600- 4200lbs. In addition, the most popular vehicles sold in this country are large pickup trucks and SUVs, weighing 5000 - 6000lbs. I'm not an EV fan, but that "study" is ridiculous.

Hello; Hello I do not follow what you mean by "comparable" car models. I do not see how this can be correct. Whatever the ICE vehicle may be if an identical EV version exists would seem the EV version must be heavier. The battery alone ought to increase the overall weight.

True there are ICE vehicles weighing 5 to 6 K pounds. Such is not the point. Make those same trucks or SUV's into EV and they will weigh something like a 1000 pounds more.

Another point omitted in your response is the overall goals of the "Green" and EV agendas. It is not to allow EV's fit in where they work best or well and also let ICE fit in where they work best or well. The goals are to do away with ICE altogether. A 100% EV fleet of vehicles MUST be heavier that a fleet of ICE due to the battery weight alone.

EV's have among their many issues two which stand out with the current technology. Charge rate and range. The, so far, way range is extended is to pack in more cells into the battery packs. more cells equals more weight. The lithium ion and a few other types are lighter than the older more traditional lead -acid types to be sure, but to have enough cells to be worthwhile a lot are needed.

 

[Balr14]

Hello; Hello I do not follow what you mean by "comparable" car models. I do not see how this can be correct. Whatever the ICE vehicle may be if an identical EV version exists would seem the EV version must be heavier. The battery alone ought to increase the overall weight.

True there are ICE vehicles weighing 5 to 6 K pounds. Such is not the point. Make those same trucks or SUV's into EV and they will weigh something like a 1000 pounds more.

Another point omitted in your response is the overall goals of the "Green" and EV agendas. It is not to allow EV's fit in where they work best or well and also let ICE fit in where they work best or well. The goals are to do away with ICE altogether. A 100% EV fleet of vehicles MUST be heavier that a fleet of ICE due to the battery weight alone.

EV's have among their many issues two which stand out with the current technology. Charge rate and range. The, so far, way range is extended is to pack in more cells into the battery packs. more cells equals more weight. The lithium ion and a few other types are lighter than the older more traditional lead -acid types to be sure, but to have enough cells to be worthwhile a lot are needed.

That's hypothetical. You have no idea what technology would be in place if EVs had the same market share as ICEs. The study argument was about vehicle weight causing pollution from tire wear. If that's the case, than big pickups and SUV are more to blame than EVs, based on real world usage. In the real world, EVs make up less than 10% of new vehicles sold, less than 2% of all vehicles on the road and most are Tesla Model 3s, which don't weight more than 4200 lbs.

 

[Joshinator99]

The problem with that "study" is it cherry picks data. Current EVs don't weigh any more than comparable car models. For example, a Tesla model 3 weighs 3600- 4200lbs. In addition, the most popular vehicles sold in this country are large pickup trucks and SUVs, weighing 5000 - 6000lbs. I'm not an EV fan, but that "study" is ridiculous.

Uh, a model 3 is a mid size sedan. A Honda Accord, the most popular ice sedan, weighs 3,280 pounds so the model 3 is on average *620 pounds* heavier. That’s 20% heavier. Huge difference.

 

[sk47]

You have no idea what technology would be in place if EVs had the same market share as ICEs. The study argument was about vehicle weight causing pollution from tire wear.

so the model 3 is on average *620 pounds* heavier. That’s 20% heavier. Huge difference.

Hello; Nothing hypothetical about the extra weight the battery pack adds. Also we have to go by what is in place now as now is when various mandates, EPA edicts and such are happening.

Also hard to picture, considering the trillions on various tables, that EV research somehow depends on EV market share. Many, if not most, new EV, solar, wind and related startups are likely, in my estimation, to fail or go bankrupt. I suspect there is a big grab for available funds simply because so much is available to grab. But this comment does have some pure speculation.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Not clear to me how the extra weight of EV's can be disputed. While i get there can be and are ICE vehicles heavier than a small EV sedan. I do not doubt they might wear tires more by being heavier. My pickup is a half ton and I replaced the tires at around 60,000 miles. I tend to replace my Sentra tires at around 65,000 miles. Sounds almost the same but there is a caveat. I rotate a full sized spare on the pickup. So that is five tires in 60,000 miles and they are bigger tires.

so the model 3 is on average *620 pounds*

If we dare to use 600 pounds for each small to midsized EV sedan, then maybe 1000 pounds to each fullsized pickup, such might be in the ballpark. To me not the worst thing about the mandated EV agendas, but not insignificant. Extra tire wear pollution may be a small talking point sort of thing in the overall scheme of things and I can concede such.

Here is another way to look at the extra weight. To move 600 pounds or 1000 pounds will require energy. In an EV that will be electric energy. If all vehicles become EV and somehow we still average around 15,000 miles per vehicle that will be a lot of energy used to haul around the batteries.
I will not attempt the math but think gasoline is somewhere around 8 pounds per gallon. So that is maybe 88 pounds with a full tank in my Sentra. 288 pounds with a full tank in my Silverado (36 gallons.) Of course, neither tank stays full for long and the weight goes down on a trip.

Pretty sure an EV battery stays the same weight charged or not. (Actually, I have not thought about this specifically) I seem to want to think the electric charge does not add any weight to the battery. Someone may know for sure.

 

[Balr14]

Uh, a model 3 is a mid size sedan. A Honda Accord, the most popular ice sedan, weighs 3,280 pounds so the model 3 is on average *620 pounds* heavier. That’s 20% heavier. Huge difference.

A Mustang GT weighs close top 4000lbs.

 

[Balr14]

A Mustang GT weighs close top 4000lbs.

The study was about pollution caused by tire wear due to the extra weight of EVs which make up a very small portion of the cars on the road and doesn't say a damn thing about the biggest offenders in this category by far, the pickups and SUVs. To me, that's cherry picking data.

 

[Joshinator99]

A Mustang GT weighs close top 4000lbs.

Nope, 3780 pounds fully loaded GT Premium here…a fully loaded Model 3 is 4200 pounds. Still a 420 pound difference. And the Mustang is NOT the Model 3’s target competition…the 3200 pound Accord is. Gaslighting doesn’t change the physics involved. EVs are HEAVY, and that has a markedly negative impact on tire wear, tire particulate emissions, and roadway wear.

 

[Joshinator99]

The study was about pollution caused by tire wear due to the extra weight of EVs which make up a very small portion of the cars on the road and doesn't say a damn thing about the biggest offenders in this category by far, the pickups and SUVs. To me, that's cherry picking data.

And yet your left wing overlords are mandating EV adaption despite their terrible track record to date. Multiplying the number of EVs on the road will accelerate tire particle emissions and roadway wear significantly. Note that tire particles are turning out to be significantly worse for air quality than ICE exhausts are. It’s not cherry picking, it’s using the available data to forecast future impact… it’s what the government SHOULD have done before jamming these down everyone’s throats.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Over the months, then years of looking into this EV debacle I have found a personal mantra. Mostly goes like this. A full EV & green displacement of ICE & fossil fuels will become exchanging one sort of environmental issues for another. I may need to add to this something like the EV & green agendas may well turn out to be far worse than the current problems. That is if the focus is restricted to only environmental impacts.

Secondary effects may include another of my personal mantras. That being life in an all EV + Green energy world may and very likely will be a do without lifestyle for most. Neither EV's nor Green energy currently appear up to the tasks they will be required to complete.

I can concede tire wear and tire particulates seem unlikely to be the top unintended side effect of EV's. Possibly small potatoes (tire wear & particulates) overall as ICE also wear out tires. But simply cannot be swept under the rug(s). I liken a comparison to human caused climate change (global warming if you wish) in the same sense that human contributions, I think, are small potatoes compared to natural climate drivers.

 

[shogun32]

it’s using the available data to forecast future impact… it’s what the government SHOULD have done before jamming these down everyone’s throats

But the narrative crafted out of data free emotionalism must be defended at all costs! Your self anointed overlords are never wrong. Their uni professors taught them so. All is needed is to burn more of those science'y heretics at the stake.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Over the months, then years of looking into this EV debacle I have found a personal mantra. Mostly goes like this. A full EV & green displacement of ICE & fossil fuels will become exchanging one sort of environmental issues for another. I may need to add to this something like the EV & green agendas may well turn out to be far worse than the current problems. That is if the focus is restricted to only environmental impacts.

Secondary effects may include another of my personal mantras. That being life in an all EV + Green energy world may and very likely will be a do without lifestyle for most. Neither EV's nor Green energy currently appear up to the tasks they will be required to complete.

I can concede tire wear and tire particulates seem unlikely to be the top unintended side effect of EV's. Possibly small potatoes (tire wear & particulates) overall as ICE also wear out tires. But simply cannot be swept under the rug(s). I liken a comparison to human caused climate change (global warming if you wish) in the same sense that human contributions, I think, are small potatoes compared to natural climate drivers.

Hello; let me add a bit to these comments. It would be both dumb and false logic for me to ignore problems associated with ICE vehicles and coal fired power plants. It is just as dumb and loaded with false logic to pretend EV's and GREEN energy do not have serious problems.

Both ways of transport and power generation can have a place where they do the needed jobs a bit better. Use EV's and green energy where it works. A round peg in a round hole sort of idea. Use ICE and fossil fuels where they do the jobs best. A square peg in a square hole sort of idea.

Faulty logic will not help much. One example is the notion of doing away with cows to prevent methane when they pass gas. The grasses & grains the cattle no longer eat will continue to grow. Something else will eat that plant material or it will go thru a lifecycle then die and decay. Doing away with cattle will shift the outcomes to some other path but will not stop the results. On some grasslands it is my understanding termites consume more grass biomass than animals. They (termites) digest the cellulose in a different manner but lots of methane is still the result. There is a lot more to be said but these ought to be enough to get a point across.

 

[Balr14]

And yet your left wing overlords are mandating EV adaption despite their terrible track record to date. Multiplying the number of EVs on the road will accelerate tire particle emissions and roadway wear significantly. Note that tire particles are turning out to be significantly worse for air quality than ICE exhausts are. It’s not cherry picking, it’s using the available data to forecast future impact… it’s what the government SHOULD have done before jamming these down everyone’s throats.

What about the tire particles from big pickups and SUVs? That doesn't count, despite out-selling EVs by more than 20 to 1?

 

[Freedom]

What about the tire particles from big pickups and SUVs? That doesn't count, despite out-selling EVs by more than 20 to 1?

majority of the "6g" crowd are older folks. Its like telling your grandpa to learn how to use a modern smartphone. Don't bother. they like how things were/are.

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