End of the GT350 Production. What is Ford's plan?

[MaskedRacerX]

I think Ford has the ingredients for an awesome S550 Boss (PP2/GT350 suspension.....GT350 brakes etc). The engine would need to be special enough to qualify for its own name though (as per the Roadrunner).

My18+ starting point (like a PP2), with some PP2/GT350 aero (that works with the "standard" GT panels), the 6060 transmission, a CPC 5.2L at ~520HP (with upgraded internals/CG/OPG for more RPM), GT350 brakes. That's a ton of differentiating equipment, that's also a notable upgrade (trans, brakes), a special engine that's not just a GT motor with a different IM/TB, and all the exterior differences are a few modular pieces. Drop in proper cooling and PP2 sized wheel/tire setup, __boom__ BOSS ... oh wait, I guess it's a 317

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[PP0001]

Given your reputation for posting good, solid info........does that mean I should get my hopes up for a 3rd gen Boss 302?

I'd be torn though.....I think Ford did the perfect job with the '12 & '13, honoring the original '69 & '70. In my book they got it spot on and the S197 Boss remains one of my favourite late model Mustangs, mainly thanks to a friend who has a '13 in Gotta Have It Green and who has let me drive it, as well as me being a passenger on a European roadtrip.

I think Ford has the ingredients for an awesome S550 Boss (PP2/GT350 suspension.....GT350 brakes etc). The engine would need to be special enough to qualify for its own name though (as per the Roadrunner).

Boss as a stripped back manual transmission track capable car............Mach 1 as the more luxurious 10-speed auto (optional) road car?

Or did I read too much into your winking smiley lol

I have to admit that I have no insider information with respect to an upcoming 3rd generation Boss 302 but certainly have to mirror exactly what you mentioned whereby Ford did an outstanding job with the S197 platform and can honestly say that these late model Boss 302's are just as exciting to drive as my GT350R's and especially the Laguna Seca model with the Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires that were outstanding IMO.

I could not see Ford building a Boss 302 again unless is was a 302 C.I. engine therefore something to consider.

Possibly my favorite Mustang of all time was "PP0002" which is a 2012 Performance White Boss 302 and was so happy that a very close friend of mine wanted to be the custodian of this car for a very long time and so happy to see this car in his cool car collection. PP0001 also went to a friend in Texas with PP0004 going to another very close friend just a few miles from my former home in S.C.

Note the casting date on the water pump of June 3, 2010 therefore a very early Boss 302 engine assembly and looks to be engine #10 for the pre-production engines.

Had this car up to ~125 MPH in 4th gear which I believe was right at the 7500 RPM redline. What a great engine!!

Back in early 2011 PP0002 went on the NASCAR Xperience Tour and attended 16 NASCAR races that year and supposedly was a pace car on two of those races. The custodian of that car for all of 2011 became a friend of mine and provided some great background on this cool car which certainly seemed to be the fastest and quickest Boss of the many that I owned.

Last time that I spoke with my good friend in PA this car still has the original OEM battery and cranks PP0002 just fine.

All of the 3 Boss cars shown were Pilot Production cars namely PP0001, PP0002 and PP0004 which Dave Pericak, Steve Ling and Bud Moore when Bud was still with us signing dash pads/air bag covers for the first two cars and then had them installed.

Just like you I really love the Boss 302 cars and if they return I plan to be first in line in the hopes of buying one!

 

[Tank]

If you consider a 6 year model run for the second generation GT350/R's and a ~25,000 car run of FPC engines as an experiment then I guess your idea of an experiment is much different than mine.

To be clear the GT350 will be discontinued after the 2020 MY and that was not because of a chassis and/or suspension system that was outdated by any means.

If a upcoming Boss 351 is in order it certainly will not come in the form of a 351 C.I. FPC engine as Ford had all that they could handle with the engineering of a 315 C.I. FPC Voodoo engine.

I could possibly see a CPC engine as in the new GT500 for a Boss 351 but even then a 351 C.I. CPC engine would be very difficult to imagine.

Going forward I could envision a 3rd generation Boss 302 before I see a Boss 351 but never say never.

You transposed a couple of numbers...

It’ll be the Boss 315, with a naturally aspirated CPC w the Tremec 3160 6 speed

 

[zero_chance]

I have been very vocal about the curious decision Ford made to put Cup 2s and NOT coolers in the PP2. I think the intent there was to not create a PP2 that would outperform a GT350 in acceleration and be within a razor’s cut on the track.

Probably not a concern since the PP2 doesn’t accelerate quicker than the 350.

 

[zero_chance]

Also, why would they worry about competing with the third place car in their segment that seems to be headed for the scrap heap again?

 

[Twin Turbo]

I have to admit that I have no insider information with respect to an upcoming 3rd generation Boss 302 but certainly have to mirror exactly what you mentioned whereby Ford did an outstanding job with the S197 platform and can honestly say that these late model Boss 302's are just as exciting to drive as my GT350R's and especially the Laguna Seca model with the Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires that were outstanding IMO.

I could not see Ford building a Boss 302 again unless is was a 302 C.I. engine therefore something to consider.

Possibly my favorite Mustang of all time was "PP0002" which is a 2012 Performance White Boss 302 and was so happy that a very close friend of mine wanted to be the custodian of this car for a very long time and so happy to see this car in his cool car collection. PP0001 also went to a friend in Texas with PP0004 going to another very close friend just a few miles from my former home in S.C.

Note the casting date on the water pump of June 3, 2010 therefore a very early Boss 302 engine assembly and looks to be engine #10 for the pre-production engines.

Had this car up to ~125 MPH in 4th gear which I believe was right at the 7500 RPM redline. What a great engine!!

Back in early 2011 PP0002 went on the NASCAR Xperience Tour and attended 16 NASCAR races that year and supposedly was a pace car on two of those races. The custodian of that car for all of 2011 became a friend of mine and provided some great background on this cool car which certainly seemed to be the fastest and quickest Boss of the many that I owned.

Last time that I spoke with my good friend in PA this car still has the original OEM battery and cranks PP0002 just fine.

All of the 3 Boss cars shown were Pilot Production cars namely PP0001, PP0002 and PP0004 which Dave Pericak, Steve Ling and Bud Moore when Bud was still with us signing dash pads/air bag covers for the first two cars and then had them installed.

Just like you I really love the Boss 302 cars and if they return I plan to be first in line in the hopes of buying one!

Thank you for the background......3 wonderful, and extra special, cars.

My friend's '13 is number 747.....which I'm sure you'll appreciate is a significant number in the development of the Boss

 

[martinjlm]

Probably not a concern since the PP2 doesn’t accelerate quicker than the 350.

You’re right. I confused it with the PP1 A10. Good catch!

 

[PP0001]

Unfortunately the fancy Boss parts ended up going into the regular GT 5.0 engines. Well not really unfortunately, but now it's going to be more difficult to make something with a significant power boost. I'm sure there's always room for improvement, but I'd really prefer to see Ford do a Boss 351. I understand some people on here don't think it will happen, but I think a 351 ci. engine would give a lot more headroom for NA power increases without hurting the long term reliability of the engine when used heavily on track.

Yes the original Boss didn't have a big power increase over the standard Mustang GT 444 vs. 435 (or 420), but in my humble opinion the power boost is really important to make a track car as desirable as possible. The Voodoo is a big part of what makes the GT350 so special, for example. I'd prefer to see Ford do this in the next generation Mustang though.

Great point about the small 9 HP difference between say the 2015 Mustang GT and the 2012/2013 Boss 302's but must add this.

Immediately upon receipt of taking delivery of a 2015 Mustang GT which was a 6 speed car I drove both the 2015 and two of my 2012 Boss 302 cars all back to back with the acceleration not even being close for only having a 9 HP difference between the two different model Mustangs.

I recall reading many automotive magazine test results for both of these cars back in 2011 with the Boss 302 coming in with substantially better performance numbers when it came to both 0 to 60 MPH and also quarter miles times therefore what I experienced driving these cars back to back just reconfirmed what I had experienced.

I came across a few guys who chassis dyno'd their Boss cars with or without the TracKey activated with their dyno readings being well above the advertised 444 HP once all of the static driveline loss was taken into consideration and would suggest that the Boss 302 cars were closer to 465 HP at the flywheel than the 444 HP as advertised.

Compared to the GT350 Voodoo engine the 302 Coyote engine had much better low end performance numbers but once the RPM's got up the Voodoo engine certainly made up the difference.

 

[PP0001]

Thank you for the background......3 wonderful, and extra special, cars.

My friend's '13 is number 747.....which I'm sure you'll appreciate is a significant number in the development of the Boss

Very nice and yes the "747" internal designation within the small group of people that working on the secretive Boss 302 program was very significant!

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

My18+ starting point (like a PP2), with some PP2/GT350 aero (that works with the "standard" GT panels), the 6060 transmission, a CPC 5.2L at ~520HP (with upgraded internals/CG/OPG for more RPM), GT350 brakes. That's a ton of differentiating equipment, that's also a notable upgrade (trans, brakes), a special engine that's not just a GT motor with a different IM/TB, and all the exterior differences are a few modular pieces. Drop in proper cooling and PP2 sized wheel/tire setup, __boom__ BOSS ... oh wait, I guess it's a 317

? or just a GT350R with a non supercharged 5.2L CPC engine? As unique as the voodoo is, if mine craps out after extended warranty and its possible to do might consider this anyway, if I'm not too old by then.

 

[Hack]

Great point about the small 9 HP difference between say the 2015 Mustang GT and the 2012/2013 Boss 302's but must add this.

Immediately upon receipt of taking delivery of a 2015 Mustang GT which was a 6 speed car I drove both the 2015 and two of my 2012 Boss 302 cars all back to back with the acceleration not even being close for only having a 9 HP difference between the two different model Mustangs.

I recall reading many automotive magazine test results for both of these cars back in 2011 with the Boss 302 coming in with substantially better performance numbers when it came to both 0 to 60 MPH and also quarter miles times therefore what I experienced driving these cars back to back just reconfirmed what I had experienced.

I came across a few guys who chassis dyno'd their Boss cars with or without the TracKey activated with their dyno readings being well above the advertised 444 HP once all of the static driveline loss was taken into consideration and would suggest that the Boss 302 cars were closer to 465 HP at the flywheel than the 444 HP as advertised.

Compared to the GT350 Voodoo engine the 302 Coyote engine had much better low end performance numbers but once the RPM's got up the Voodoo engine certainly made up the difference.

It's kind of too bad that they under-rated the Boss. When they were new, I never even considered one because I didn't think the power numbers justified the extra money (at the time I hadn't tried any road course driving). I wanted to buy one this spring, but I decided to go the cheaper route and get a 2017 GT PP1 instead. I would have really liked to own a Boss for a while, but in the end I decided not to.

 

[newmoon]

If you consider a 6 year model run for the second generation GT350/R's and a ~25,000 car run of FPC engines as an experiment then I guess your idea of an experiment is much different than mine.

To be clear the GT350 will be discontinued after the 2020 MY and that was not because of a chassis and/or suspension system that was outdated by any means.

If a upcoming Boss 351 is in order it certainly will not come in the form of a 351 C.I. FPC engine as Ford had all that they could handle with the engineering of a 315 C.I. FPC Voodoo engine.

I could possibly see a CPC engine as in the new GT500 for a Boss 351 but even then a 351 C.I. CPC engine would be very difficult to imagine.

Going forward I could envision a 3rd generation Boss 302 before I see a Boss 351 but never say never.

A new Boss 302 and I am in. Loved my 13 Boss.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It's kind of too bad that they under-rated the Boss. When they were new, I never even considered one because I didn't think the power numbers justified the extra money (at the time I hadn't tried any road course driving).

You had to already appreciate road racing and road course driving - or at least corner-carving in general - in order to really appreciate the recent Boss 302. I'm afraid that the average enthusiast doesn't look far enough past HP and straight line statistics to see how only a little more power in a better prepared chassis can also make for a great driving experience.

The Boss's 1969 predecessor was in much the same situation. We all knew about it back then, and where it was used. But most of the guys still favored cars with at least 383's, 390's, or 396's under the hood.


Norm

 

[MaskedRacerX]

? or just a GT350R with a non supercharged 5.2L CPC engine? As unique as the voodoo is, if mine craps out after extended warranty and its possible to do might consider this anyway, if I'm not too old by then.

I was sort of thinking of better cost (i.e., improved economy-of-scale with more common body parts, lights, etc.) and better feature parity (LCD dash for example). Plus, removing Shelby from the equation, I mean, the GT350 was a car with a very specific design target, that got a Shelby badge, removing the key differentiator and using the same model number feels like is really dilutes the marque.

 

[PP0001]

It's kind of too bad that they under-rated the Boss. When they were new, I never even considered one because I didn't think the power numbers justified the extra money (at the time I hadn't tried any road course driving). I wanted to buy one this spring, but I decided to go the cheaper route and get a 2017 GT PP1 instead. I would have really liked to own a Boss for a while, but in the end I decided not to.

Understand your decision but if you can find a low mileage 2012/2013 Boss 302 with the Laguna Seca model the ultimate to purchase I suggest that you will be very impressed with this car.

Quad exhaust, great engine, TracKey, terrific looks and probably the best handling live axle Mustang ever they are just a blast to drive.

I have a number of close car buddies mostly in the S.E. with all of them having both 2nd generation Boss 302's and and GT350R's with everyone of them saying exactly the same as me and is that they enjoy driving their Boss cars just as much as driving their GT350R's.

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