E85 Questions

[Jay-rod427]

I found E85 after going to all the stations listed as having it and not actually having it. I found a Shell gas station that states it is E85, going there tonight hopefully around 5 to 10 miles to empty then adding a few gallons of E85 and then tuning right there at the gas station and then waiting for a few minutes and driving gently for a few miles until I see AFR changing then I'll do a WOT test and log. The E85 tune I'm ordering the tester from Amazon and using that at the Shell station before tuning and logging it.

Need to drive easy several miles before flogging on it. If Nguage see alcohol learned flag checked, if SCT just drive 10+ miles to be safe. The fuel trims and AFR will dance around a while before it settles and learns. Without the Nguage alc%, or testing it you have know way of knowing the blend, and/or what afr should be.

also if you only add a couple gallons E85 it will be a weak mix with what's left in the tank. Even at 10 miles till empty that's still a gallon or more. Personally I would just top off the full tank with E. 1 gallon to even 3 gals top shelf full E85 is still not a great mix for the most potential. 1 gal to 12-13 gallons tho is a lot stronger mix.

Luckily all our stations around here just changed to summer blending at the pumps. Tested 10 gals this weekend at 87%! just in time for race season.

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[ChiTownStang26]

@Loki-GT

Carefull if that's the e85r tune because I just filled up at a shell with e85 Sunday and it only reached 45% ethanol with 1 gal left of 93 in my tank. They still have the winter blend out. Trying a new station over by O'Hare tomorrow.

AFR was at 12.0 but seems about right for e45...

 

[shogun32]

you can buy pure, known entity E85 or E98 from fuel suppliers. Runs about $180/55gal + freight. From Chi-town it's not that far of a drive to North Lake, WI. You guys drive that direction anyway to find a road that isn't straight...

 

[stangman638]

@Loki-GT

Carefull if that's the e85r tune because I just filled up at a shell with e85 Sunday and it only reached 45% ethanol with 1 gal left of 93 in my tank. They still have the winter blend out. Trying a new station over by O'Hare tomorrow.

AFR was at 12.0 but seems about right for e45...

Run it down to near empty, like a few miles til empty and fill up, sometimes I get 50's reading and see 85ish % alcohol on my 2nd fill up.

 

[ChiTownStang26]

@stangman638

Ya just did a second tank and it's only reading 56%. I'm sure it's a winter blend just wish I knew when there going to switch to the summer blend and have full e85. First world problems...

 

[stangman638]

@stangman638

Ya just did a second tank and it's only reading 56%. I'm sure it's a winter blend just wish I knew when there going to switch to the summer blend and have full e85. First world problems...

Strange.. thought I would have a winter blend in NY... nope.. 84.7 on the gauge .. was a nice surprise.

 

[Loki-GT]

@Jay-rod427

I have an sctx4 not a ngauge so I cant read ethanol % I even enable the pid and it just reads 0% on 93. The pump by my house says 53-83% should I try to find another gas station? Is there another way to test or read ethanol besides a ngague? I dont really want to spend 400 just to read ethanol %

Every damn station I go to says 51% - 83%...... got my Flex logged but not doing the E85 log until I can find a station that doesn't have the possibility of 51% and still has an E85 sticker on the pump.

 

[AZ18yote]

Every damn station I go to says 51% - 83%...... got my Flex logged but not doing the E85 log until I can find a station that doesn't have the possibility of 51% and still has an E85 sticker on the pump.

Just be happy you have real e. Here in AZ they only offer flex fuel which is about e54 on average.

 

[ChiTownStang26]

@Loki-GT

I'm almost positive all stations say that. Winter blend is about 51% then once they switch to summer blend it starts to rise. I have 56% in my tank now with no issues. AFR is around 11.3 since it's not full e85 and knock sensor rarely goes positive no more the +1.50 and see as much as -9.99 knock, 0 drivability issues. If you have the FF tune you'll be fine to do it now.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@stangman638

Ya just did a second tank and it's only reading 56%. I'm sure it's a winter blend just wish I knew when there going to switch to the summer blend and have full e85. First world problems...

Hey man, totally off topic ... but do the Velossa Tech intakes for the OEM grill work with the MMD grill? Or did you use the RTR variant?

I'm looking to do something different with my grill, I've got a set of VT intakes for OEM, wondering about compatibility.

 

[ChiTownStang26]

@MaskedRacerX

I just pulled up my invoice and yes I selected stock gt grill and the fitment was flawless for the mmd v. I had to take the bumper off to get it in. If you've never taken it off before enjoy getting those set screws off and on at the top of the wheel well. My nightmares are still plagued by those damn screws!

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@MaskedRacerX

I just pulled up my invoice and yes I selected stock gt grill and the fitment was flawless for the mmd v. I had to take the bumper off to get it in. If you've never taken it off before enjoy getting those set screws off and on at the top of the wheel well. My nightmares are still plagued by those damn screws!

Hahaha, yes, I've had mine off to install the VT intakes (which are a terrific product), so many screws, so many broken clips I actually glued the one I busted but it looks loose, I'm going to do some Quik- Latches when I pull mine the next time. What I did was totally gut my OEM grill, but now I'd prefer a slightly more "finished" look, so I've been knocking around another OEM grill with just the left and right sections opened, or maybe something aftermarket (which prompted my question).

Thanks for the answer!

 

[brucelinc]

I am curious about what tuners do to make our cars adjust the AFR with Flex Fuel tunes. When stock, adding to much E85 can cause a lean condition since the car will not adapt to the need for more fuel.. However, with a flex fuel tune, they learn and adjust. I think GM cars have a sensor of some kind but Fords do not. Anybody know how the tuners make our cars know what is in the tank and adjust?

 

[ChiTownStang26]

@brucelinc

No we dont have sensors in our cars and I have no clue, if I had to guess it goes off ethanol percentage.

 

[nate-roth]

@brucelinc

No we dont have sensors in our cars and I have no clue, if I had to guess it goes off ethanol percentage.

There is logic built into the sw that the PCM uses that, if turned on, allow the PCM to make adjustments based on an "inferred" ethanol content in the fuel. The inferred calculation is based on what the stock wideband o2's are reading in regards to fuel trims. This process "inferred ethanol content", is not an exact reading of the ethanol content compared to other mfg's that incorporate actual ethanol sensors. This is why the ethanol percentage we see can seem to be slow to react and also why tuners have to be cautious in flex fuel tunes and can't be too agressive with timing at part throttle or timing at lower rpm, high load inputs. The flex fuel tables for the F150 and the mustang are essentially the same they just aren't active in the stock mustang tunes.

E85 only or commonly referred to as E85 "race" tunes use a hard input of stocih, meaning the tune is indicaitng that an 85% ethanol blend fuel will be only used in the car. Tuners can be more agressive, especially at part throttle and erlier in the torque curve on adding more timing. That's why E85 only tunes often feel stronger than flex tunes, especially in everyday stoplight to stoplight driving. I strongly prefer the feel of the E85 only tune but also understand that running this tunes means I am responsible for finding and using E85 with 85% ethanol content.

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