Dodge Challenger Demon

[dron_jones]

I ASSUME that they did it because they want to judge a reaction from their buyers. Kind of like when they were going to make the Mustang front wheel drive. I know I for one am really glad that Ford listened and didn't go that way.

I know that my reaction to a hybrid Mustang could hardly be more negative. I'm surprised at how many people on this forum seem not to care.

Although ford will look at feedback from wherever it comes, the Hybrid mustang has been underway for several years now. The market for the cars is already very well understood. By the time something hits press conference you're already at critical mass.

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[Hack]

Because it's an option and not a total line conversion.

It's no different than offering the Turbo 4 as an option..just because one person doesn't want it doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

Too many Mustang owners, and "enthusiast car" owners in general, think that because THEY don't prefer something it must mean it shouldn't be permitted or an option.

Some may feel that way. I certainly don't feel as though I can tell Ford what to do. I'm one guy, not a huge corporation. I'm glad I have the opportunity to broadcast that I'm unlikely to buy something.

Although ford will look at feedback from wherever it comes, the Hybrid mustang has been underway for several years now. The market for the cars is already very well understood. By the time something hits press conference you're already at critical mass.

Did the front wheel drive Mustang get talked about in a press conference? :headbonk:

 

[Voodooo]

Some may feel that way. I certainly don't feel as though I can tell Ford what to do. I'm one guy, not a huge corporation. I'm glad I have the opportunity to broadcast that I'm unlikely to buy something.



Did the front wheel drive Mustang get talked about in a press conference? :headbonk:

The front wheel drive mustang was the Probe. Remember?

 

[Voodooo]

Scott have you driven your car yet with the carbon fiber driveshaft by chance?? Might be a mod I'll be looking to do at some point as well if for nothing else just to improve "blipability"

Those lightweight batteries, are there any downsides to them in regards to a vehicle that doesn't get driven very often? I.e in the summer when I am away on rotation, would it be necessary to have it connected to a trickle charger any time I will be gone for 2 weeks or more?

Still waiting on my DDS carbon shaft after 2 months. The Braille battery will keep full charge without a drop if it's disconnected or a cut off switch is used.

 

[dron_jones]

Did the front wheel drive Mustang get talked about in a press conference? :headbonk:

I will reiterate what 1320' said, its an option, not a conversion. There is a distinct difference between offering a mustang with an optional hybrid powertrain and converting to a hybrid only platform or front wheel drive platform like the probe example.

 

[Hack]

I will reiterate what 1320' said, its an option, not a conversion. There is a distinct difference between offering a mustang with an optional hybrid powertrain and converting to a hybrid only platform or front wheel drive platform like the probe example.

True, it is an option, but all the design time and money spent on accommodating the hybrid features are wasted for those who don't buy that option. Those people at Ford could have been working on a really great feature for the car, but instead they are working on making an option that is unnecessarily complex and heavy for a car that is supposed to be sporty. Hybrid technology will do nothing good for the car if they are only shooting for "V8 power".

Now if they took a really great V8 engine and added hybrid on top of that in order to get more power, MAAYBe that would be good. Such as 800 hp from a big, twin turbo V8 plus another 250-350 hp from the electrics - yes I at least don't hate that. But saving a couple mpg by shutting off the engine at stop lights or putting a lame V6 into the car... that would really suck. 6 cylinder engines are fine, but not as a higher expense option. The 6 cylinder needs to be the least expensive version.

IMO the Mustang should stay somewhat true to it's cheap performance car roots. There are areas for it to stray from being cheap in order for it to be accepted by people nowadays, but excessive complexity to save a few MPG doesn't fit into the picture IMO. Put that fru fru crap into a Lincoln version of the car if you want to do that. Make the gas engine nearly silent, etc. Most people don't want to hear a loud 6 cylinder anyway.

 

[dron_jones]

True, it is an option, but all the design time and money spent on accommodating the hybrid features are wasted for those who don't buy that option. Those people at Ford could have been working on a really great feature for the car, but instead they are working on making an option that is unnecessarily complex and heavy for a car that is supposed to be sporty. Hybrid technology will do nothing good for the car if they are only shooting for "V8 power".

This opinion is not a universal one. The information has shown that there is a large market segment who consider the addition of a hybrid option to be the really great feature of a car that you are talking about.

Now if they took a really great V8 engine and added hybrid on top of that in order to get more power, MAAYBe that would be good. Such as 800 hp from a big, twin turbo V8 plus another 250-350 hp from the electrics - yes I at least don't hate that. But saving a couple mpg by shutting off the engine at stop lights or putting a lame V6 into the car... that would really suck. 6 cylinder engines are fine, but not as a higher expense option. The 6 cylinder needs to be the least expensive version.

the V8 turbo/hybrid is not likely to come to pass on a non FP mustang. The global strategy for ford has been to use turbo's and smaller displacement engines. My best guess is that the hybrid would be a combination of 4 cylinder turbo with hybrid assist... not sure if that will be like the NSX giving the car AWD or if it will just be RWD with a singular electric motor to fill in the gaps..

IMO the Mustang should stay somewhat true to it's cheap performance car roots. There are areas for it to stray from being cheap in order for it to be accepted by people nowadays, but excessive complexity to save a few MPG doesn't fit into the picture IMO. Put that fru fru crap into a Lincoln version of the car if you want to do that. Make the gas engine nearly silent, etc. Most people don't want to hear a loud 6 cylinder anyway.

Technically a hybrid mustang would be true to its roots of a cheap performance car. Currently the cheapest performance hybrid car is the Acura NSX, having this technology south of 40K would be an enormous value.

 

[Evolvd]

I hate to say it but unless CAFE standards are reduced we will all see the end of V8s in our lifetime.

 

[Hack]

Technically a hybrid mustang would be true to its roots of a cheap performance car.

So all the hybrid stuff will cost nothing? :doh: :lol:

Yeah the best way to make a cheap performance car is to add a bunch of complexity and weight to it.

 

[dron_jones]

So all the hybrid stuff will cost nothing? :doh: :lol:

Yeah the best way to make a cheap performance car is to add a bunch of complexity and weight to it.

Everything that is added to cars, navigation, sync, backup camera, active exhaust, DI/PI adds complexity or weight. Sorry but cars are not getting more simple as time goes on. You act like hybrid technology is brand new, its been used commercially for over 20 years now.

Of course this technology will cost something but Ford isn't going to release a 65K mustang, its doesn't make any sense for the segment (unless its a FP car).

Look you don't like the hybrid, i get it, no one says you have to, but your arguments are a little thin. The truth is like most you don't like the car because you love your V8's and you are afraid that this spells the end for the v8. I don't blame you, i worry about the same thing, but lets at least be honest about why we feel the way we do.

 

[dgc333]

IMO the Mustang should stay somewhat true to it's cheap performance car roots.

Cheap performance car is not the roots of the Mustang. It has always been an inexpensive sporty appearing car that could be optioned for performance. The 4 and 6 cylinder versions have always far out sold the v8 versions.

 

[machsmith]

Lets get us some hybrids fellas. We don't want any of that Non GMO HAHA

I'll be stocking up on the Non GMO cars and will drive them the rest of my days. Don't get me wrong, I'll have hybrid commuters.

 

[Hack]

Everything that is added to cars, navigation, sync, backup camera, active exhaust, DI/PI adds complexity or weight. Sorry but cars are not getting more simple as time goes on. You act like hybrid technology is brand new, its been used commercially for over 20 years now.

Of course this technology will cost something but Ford isn't going to release a 65K mustang, its doesn't make any sense for the segment (unless its a FP car).

Look you don't like the hybrid, i get it, no one says you have to, but your arguments are a little thin. The truth is like most you don't like the car because you love your V8's and you are afraid that this spells the end for the v8. I don't blame you, i worry about the same thing, but lets at least be honest about why we feel the way we do.

Actually I don't like hybrids because I don't think they are good. I think they are excessively complex = expensive. I think they are heavy due to batteries. Weight is the enemy of performance. I think they are bad for the environment due to the batteries used right now, but there is a commonly accepted lie out there that the environmental damage from a hybrid is somehow less significant than the damage from burning a couple more gallons of gas. Typically it's just shifting the environmental damage around from one location to another. I also reject the philosophy that there's something wrong with burning gas.

I dislike ethanol as well, because its common use is based on corruption, bribes and lies. And the government made it illegal to use fuel without it!

Airbags are a similar situation. Mandated so big business could make lots of money.

I don't like hybrids because in my mind they are symbolic of our loss of freedom and the increasing corruption and restrictive laws of our government. I understand a more complex car will make Ford more money (or at least they seem to believe so), but that doesn't mean I'm going to be interested in buying one.

There are a lot of people who agree with me but are afraid to say so. I'm keeping it real.

And speaking of thin arguments - what's your argument for hybrids? Ford will do it anyway so I'm for it?

Cheap performance car is not the roots of the Mustang. It has always been an inexpensive sporty appearing car that could be optioned for performance. The 4 and 6 cylinder versions have always far out sold the v8 versions.

I agree with what you wrote, but IMO it's not an argument for hybrid technology.

 

[dron_jones]

Actually I don't like hybrids because I don't think they are good. I think they are excessively complex = expensive. I think they are heavy due to batteries. Weight is the enemy of performance. I think they are bad for the environment due to the batteries used right now, but there is a commonly accepted lie out there that the environmental damage from a hybrid is somehow less significant than the damage from burning a couple more gallons of gas. Typically it's just shifting the environmental damage around from one location to another. I also reject the philosophy that there's something wrong with burning gas.

I dislike ethanol as well, because its common use is based on corruption, bribes and lies. And the government made it illegal to use fuel without it!

Airbags are a similar situation. Mandated so big business could make lots of money.

I don't like hybrids because in my mind they are symbolic of our loss of freedom and the increasing corruption and restrictive laws of our government. I understand a more complex car will make Ford more money (or at least they seem to believe so), but that doesn't mean I'm going to be interested in buying one.

There are a lot of people who agree with me but are afraid to say so. I'm keeping it real.

And speaking of thin arguments - what's your argument for hybrids? Ford will do it anyway so I'm for it?


I agree with what you wrote, but IMO it's not an argument for hybrid technology.

Great part about America is that everyone is free to have their own opinions.

I prefer mine because i don't look as good in a tinfoil hat.

 

[Evolvd]

It's not illegal to use non-ethanol fuel...I get ethanol free at the gas pump every fill up. I can get 87, 89, or 93 ethanol free here.

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