Do you have audio questions?

[stbanas]

Hi guys, I got a question about enclosures. I have a JL 12W6V3 and I'm indecisive on a box. I found a couple on eBay and am wondering if there will be a big difference between the two.

The first one is made to JL's recommended specs (1.3 cu.ft. at 33hz):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171269520946?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The second one is pretty close to JL's specs but sits flush (1.7 cu.ft. at 32hz):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262236026228

Besides the difference in volume and tuning frequency I noticed the port of the 2nd box is pointed directly at the cone/magnet and coming out of the side. Will I hear a huge difference in sound between the 2?

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[SQ_S550]

Hi guys, I got a question about enclosures. I have a JL 12W6V3 and I'm indecisive on a box. I found a couple on eBay and am wondering if there will be a big difference between the two.

The first one is made to JL's recommended specs (1.3 cu.ft. at 33hz):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171269520946?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The second one is pretty close to JL's specs but sits flush (1.7 cu.ft. at 32hz):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262236026228

Besides the difference in volume and tuning frequency I noticed the port of the 2nd box is pointed directly at the cone/magnet and coming out of the side. Will I hear a huge difference in sound between the 2?

Im really curious where the port on the mustang enclosure fires. I'm assuming the front of the enclosure is sealed to the seat opening. In that case You really wouldn't benefit from the port With the woofer firing back and the port into the shock tower sealed off on both sides, you would need to remove the rear 6.5s to let the sub get into the cabin. This enclosure would look better then the other one though.

both enclosures are going to sound about the same. the larger one will play deeper th will give you some trunk rattle.

 

[stbanas]

[MENTION=27502]SQ_S550[/MENTION] Thanks for your input. I think I will purchase the mustang specific one as I like the flush look of it. I purchased a bunch of Stinger roadkill for the trunk, rear deck, and doors hopefully that will be enough.

 

[Evo_Rob]

Would you need to keep the seats down for the forward firing zenclosure box? That would suck and look awkward lol

 

[HextallS550]

[MENTION=27502]SQ_S550[/MENTION] I purchased a bunch of Stinger roadkill for the trunk, rear deck, and doors hopefully that will be enough.

Why? Dynamat and Roadkill don't really do what most people think. If you're trying to add mass to stop a rattle isolate the rattle or noise and treat it individually. While some areas benefit from added mass overall you're better off using materials that are designed for specific purposes.
For doors a layer on the outer door skin MAY help some cars from flexing. I say may because I've seen modern cars that don't exhibit a lot of deflection from midbass drivers. Unfortunately Ford still makes the Mustang mostly from steel including the doors.
I know the people who started Dynamat, they're from my hometown and their marketing approach in the 90's STILL confuse the hell out of people.

 

[HextallS550]

Would you need to keep the seats down for the forward firing zenclosure box? That would suck and look awkward lol

No but depending on what the excursion is you may damage the subs. In general subs places in the rear corner of a car firing at 90* have the best response. Unless you like port noise and the mechanical sounds of a subwoofer stick with sealed boxes and apply 500-1000 W to each. Even better actually use them in stereo.

 

[stbanas]

Why? Dynamat and Roadkill don't really do what most people think. If your trying to add mass to stop a rattle isolate the rattle or noise and treat it individually. While some areas benefit from added mass overall you're better off using materials that are designed for specific purposes.

So if I understand correctly, are you suggesting to install the system first and then listen where the rattles come from?

 

[HextallS550]

Yes

 

[HextallS550]

The only company worth a damn in the noise control business is Cascade Audio.
Dynamat, Raamat, those are industrial based products that clever marketing schemes passed off as automotive solutions (Remember the old Dynamat POP displays that let you hit bare metal with a coin and then told you to hit the Dynamated panel with a coin?)
No one on an OEM level is picking up the phone to Dynamat because we can do NVH and FEA testing and know exactly where mass is and isn't needed.
CAE is different for many reasons including their involvement with OEMs however this snippet from their site is the best information I've seen for a consumer:
Types of audio enhancement solutions

1) Vibration Dampers are used to eliminate or reduce structural resonance and vibration. Vibration dampers are not designed to block sound.

2) Sound Barriers are used to block and reflect high energy airborne sound like road noise in the form of exhaust, airflow, drivetrain and tire noise.

3) Sound Absorbers are primarily used to soak up mid band and high frequency airborne sound and reflect thermal energy. Absorbers are typically very lightweight and do not damp vibration.

4 )Gasketing Materials are used to eliminate squeaks, rattles and buzzes and to seal speakers.

 

[stbanas]

The only company worth a damn in the noise control business is Cascade Audio.
Dynamat, Raamat, those are industrial based products that clever marketing schemes passed off as automotive solutions (Remember the old Dynamat POP displays that let you hit bare metal with a coin and then told you to hit the Dynamated panel with a coin?)
No one on an OEM level is picking up the phone to Dynamat because we can do NVH and FEA testing and know exactly where mass is and isn't needed.
CAE is different for many reasons including their involvement with OEMs however this snippet from their site is the best information I've seen for a consumer:
Types of audio enhancement solutions

1) Vibration Dampers are used to eliminate or reduce structural resonance and vibration. Vibration dampers are not designed to block sound.

2) Sound Barriers are used to block and reflect high energy airborne sound like road noise in the form of exhaust, airflow, drivetrain and tire noise.

3) Sound Absorbers are primarily used to soak up mid band and high frequency airborne sound and reflect thermal energy. Absorbers are typically very lightweight and do not damp vibration.

4 )Gasketing Materials are used to eliminate squeaks, rattles and buzzes and to seal speakers.

Thanks for the helpful info! I'm not well versed in nvh damping. I've only setup basic sound systems in my previous cars. Always learning something new :cheers:

 

[mumbles]

@SQ_S550 Thanks for your input. I think I will purchase the mustang specific one as I like the flush look of it. I purchased a bunch of Stinger roadkill for the trunk, rear deck, and doors hopefully that will be enough.

[MENTION=17732]stbanas[/MENTION]
Like SQ_S550, I'm concerned about the placement of the port... it doesn't seem that there is enough space for the port to function properly.

Unless you are dead set on using a ported enclosure, I would opt for the sealed version.

 

[David.K]

How to make changes to the ACM.

You dont need to swap out the factory HU to get a clean pre-amp, just change your ABD in the ACM. We know from testing that the factory ACM has more line out voltage nominally than an aftermarket unit.
This is what I've been saying from the beginning. This isn't 1997 anymore, aftermarket HUs are not as far ahead of factory HUs as they used to be. Clarion, Alpine, Panasonic are all doing OEM stuff and if you look at where factory systems are compromised it starts with the speakers because they are the hardest thing to get VPs to invest in.
HU or Human Machine Interfaces have to look great and be easy to operate, they're seen as value added features, that's why Premiums have a touchscreen and base cars have that 1987 Porsche cell phone HU, yet the speakers are the same $2/unit Pioneer junk no matter what you buy.

I'm glad you brought this up. I'm in the middle of doing a install full install (eq, amp, speakers, sub) and have been waiting on OEMRadio's wire harness and ACM updater for a while now. It's been hit and miss getting in touch with him and I am at the point were I need to make some decisions. I prefer the idea of updating the ACM to low-level outputs, however I have considered using the JL Audio Fix unit instead. I did acquire a harness for the ACM that I can add RCA's to in I can get some assistance on updating the ACM. My question is, how do I go about updating the ACM to remove the factory processing and change the high-level outputs to low-level?

BTW- Factory system is a base 6 speaker system.

 

[HextallS550]

My question is, how do I go about updating the ACM to remove the factory processing and change the high-level outputs to low-level?

Are you aware of FORSCan? You'll need the program and some sort of flash device, most people use the bluetooth device sold on Amazon. Check the Sync 3 swap thread.

Here's an example:

ACM flashing for Premium upgrade

ACM 727-01-01 D800 2800 0030
ACM 727-01-02 0100 32
ACM 727-02-01 2E5F
ACM 727-03-01 3C6E
ACM 727-04-01 0003 0255 53E0

The first line needs to be changed to:

ACM 727-01-01 9800 2800 00F0

 

[SQ_S550]

Oh the deadening debate LOL! I honestly feel yo get the most bang for buck value on a closed cell foam type product. This is what will stop the interior trim rattles. Don't get me wrong, adding the deadening material does its job if it is used correctly. The deadening material adds mass to panels controlling the resonance of the panel, in other words it reduces panel flex and movement. This can also be used to decouple the listener from the car. You can also do a mass loaded vinyl to help control airborne noise! This stuff is heavy as hell! This made a huge difference in my Ram, My ram was so quiet you could just slightly hear emergency sirens until they were right behind you.!

IMO the most important places to place the deadening material is the doors, roof, and front foot-well.

I say the front foot-well because as you listen seated in the car your feet feel the low frequency vibration on the floor. This can tent to pull the sound stage down.

The doors because they are actually enclosures made from really thin material. Do both the outer door skin and the inner door skin, also cutting plug pieces from tin to cover all the open areas. deaden these panels also. I typically go really heavy on my doors, but I also generally run between 500 and 600 watts RMS on my Mid Bass.

Th Roof because it is such a huge piece of metal over time the roof can make a rippling sound reacting to low frequencies, I do not see this being an issue in the mustang.

My deadening plan so far in the mustang will be the rear deck area, and doors. I will be using a closed cell foam on most surfaces though. The only reason I will be deadening my trunck is that I plan on utilizing an IB sub install. My trunk will be mu enclosure.

The best part of firing a woofer forward and sealing the cabin from the trunk is that you will have virtually ZERO trunk rattle. As long as the cabin is sealed from the trunk you will also produce an impact from the subwoofer as you would by aiming the woofer backwards.

The Mustang really should not need much sound treatment as the car is a pretty quiet platform from the start

 

[Ugly John]

Some other stuff that needs discussing here:
1. Imaging and staging aka "Why spending money on rear speakers or installing new mid-range drivers in the factory location is a bad idea"

So, why is spending money on rear speakers a waste? If adding an amp, should we keep the factory speakers there, or install woofers instead of coaxials?

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