Can a tuning shop lock your computer

[Jackson1320]

I don’t believe that these companies that are tuning car can legally lock your pcm/ecu/tcm whatever you want to call it. I’m pretty sure that they are breaking some lawls. If It was my car I would speak to a lawyer and take it as far up as I needed. Once they lock the computer they are basically holding it hostage and noone else can do anything to it. There

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[EFI]

They are locking their tune, not the whole computer. You can easily revert back to the stock tune and then you're free to do whatever you want from there. Noone is holding your car hostage.

It may be in a grey area of the law, but you agreed to it when you bought the unit...so not much a lawyer can do when you signed the disclosure that you agree to have the tune locked.

 

[Schwerin]

They are locking their tune, not the whole computer. You can easily revert back to the stock tune and then you're free to do whatever you want from there. Noone is holding your car hostage.

It may be in a grey area of the law, but you agreed to it when you bought the unit...so not much a lawyer can do when you signed the disclosure that you agree to have the tune locked.

Unless you lose your tuning device, then you may be SOL and have to get a new PCM to reflash it again.

 

[Schwerin]

I don’t believe that these companies that are tuning car can legally lock your pcm/ecu/tcm whatever you want to call it. I’m pretty sure that they are breaking some lawls. If It was my car I would speak to a lawyer and take it as far up as I needed. Once they lock the computer they are basically holding it hostage and noone else can do anything to it. There

Depends on what you signed in their agreement. Many OEM's try to make it so that no one but them can get into it already. There is no law that YOU can get into it at all, so why does it matter who locks it? If anything it would be the OEM's that could sue the tuners. Not you.

 

[EFI]

Unless you lose your tuning device, then you may be SOL and have to get a new PCM to reflash it again.

That's true, but then that's on you. The tuning company gives you a very easy way to go back to stock and then do what you want, so they are not holding your car hostage in any way.

If you lose the keys to the car, you have to pony up and buy new ones to replace those.

 

[Jackson1320]

They are locking their tune, not the whole computer. You can easily revert back to the stock tune and then you're free to do whatever you want from there. Noone is holding your car hostage.

It may be in a grey area of the law, but you agreed to it when you bought the unit...so not much a lawyer can do when you signed the disclosure that you agree to have the tune locked.

They do lock the entire computer. You can’t even go to your dealership to have normal work done. Some tuners lock it without telling you. I know a few people that this happened to. Some people can’t even go back to stock and had to replace the computer completely

 

[Jackson1320]

Depends on what you signed in their agreement. Many OEM's try to make it so that no one but them can get into it already. There is no law that YOU can get into it at all, so why does it matter who locks it? If anything it would be the OEM's that could sue the tuners. Not you.

The manufacturers have creators rights and try to protect their software/hardware. The tuner may claim that they are protecting their data but I don’t believe that they can disable other software and hardware in the process.
There’s actually a lawsuit going on right now and has been going on for awhile. If the consumer wins will make anyone unable to lock any computer in a car truck or equipment also the manufacturer will have to have the equipment that they use for diagnose and repair available for sale to the consumer

 

[EFI]

They do lock the entire computer. You can’t even go to your dealership to have normal work done. Some tuners lock it without telling you.

So maybe don't go to shady tuners or don't just sign stuff without reading the fine print?

All the major tuners explicitly say it and all give you the option (in the tuning device) to take a backup of the stock file and be able to flash that at some point in the future.

It sounds like you just have beef with certain shady tuning shops that do these types of deceitful tactics, while bunching all tuners as such.

 

[PaddyPrix]

They do lock the entire computer. You can’t even go to your dealership to have normal work done. Some tuners lock it without telling you. I know a few people that this happened to. Some people can’t even go back to stock and had to replace the computer completely

Not really. I had this issue the other week when I was trying to diagnose things with ForScan with a SCT tune loaded up on it. My issue when running ForScan was that it couldn't properly decipher what PCM it was talking to, even after I supplied it the same exact model and version it wanted. After I took the flash off by returning it to stock, quick refresh and ForScan instantly found it and started pulling the data once again. I then added the tune back on, and it picked everything up since it knew who/what it was talking to with no problem.

Your dealer is likely using something very similar to ForScan, so they simply can't match up the custom PCM's id/version which means they can't communicate with the system because their program has no idea what it's talking to. If you break/lose/sell the tuning device, or get a car with a tune without supplying that, then yeah, you're kinda screwed and need to get another PCM. In that case, if you bought a car with a tune, but not the tuner, then yeah, you're kinda screwed, but that's pretty rare. That, and you can get some help from those tuner companies, assuming it's theirs, similar to people buying married/locked tuning devices on eBay and whatnot.

 

[Jackson1320]

So maybe don't go to shady tuners or don't just sign stuff without reading the fine print?

All the major tuners explicitly say it and all give you the option (in the tuning device) to take a backup of the stock file and be able to flash that at some point in the future.

It sounds like you just have beef with certain shady tuning shops that do these types of deceitful tactics, while bunching all tuners as such.

This was one of the largest mustang tuners. I have no problems with it as I am my on tuner so I have nothing to worry about but others are not so lucky

 

[Jackson1320]

Not really. I had this issue the other week when I was trying to diagnose things with ForScan with a SCT tune loaded up on it. My issue when running ForScan was that it couldn't properly decipher what PCM it was talking to, even after I supplied it the same exact model and version it wanted. After I took the flash off by returning it to stock, quick refresh and ForScan instantly found it and started pulling the data once again. I then added the tune back on, and it picked everything up since it knew who/what it was talking to with no problem.

Your dealer is likely using something very similar to ForScan, so they simply can't match up the custom PCM's id/version which means they can't communicate with the system because their program has no idea what it's talking to. If you break/lose/sell the tuning device, or get a car with a tune without supplying that, then yeah, you're kinda screwed and need to get another PCM. In that case, if you bought a car with a tune, but not the tuner, then yeah, you're kinda screwed, but that's pretty rare. That, and you can get some help from those tuner companies, assuming it's theirs, similar to people buying married/locked tuning devices on eBay and whatnot.

What about dealerships selling cars without even knowing if it is tuned? In that case there no way of knowing who tuned the car so you can not get help. Purchasing a tuned car is not as uncommon as you would think. So who should pay for the new computer if you purchase a used car that is tuned and end up needing a computer because of it.
One person I know had a warranty repair denied because the car was tuned and he never knew because the dealership never told him and probably never knew

 

[Jackson1320]

Not really. I had this issue the other week when I was trying to diagnose things with ForScan with a SCT tune loaded up on it. My issue when running ForScan was that it couldn't properly decipher what PCM it was talking to, even after I supplied it the same exact model and version it wanted. After I took the flash off by returning it to stock, quick refresh and ForScan instantly found it and started pulling the data once again. I then added the tune back on, and it picked everything up since it knew who/what it was talking to with no problem.

Your dealer is likely using something very similar to ForScan, so they simply can't match up the custom PCM's id/version which means they can't communicate with the system because their program has no idea what it's talking to. If you break/lose/sell the tuning device, or get a car with a tune without supplying that, then yeah, you're kinda screwed and need to get another PCM. In that case, if you bought a car with a tune, but not the tuner, then yeah, you're kinda screwed, but that's pretty rare. That, and you can get some help from those tuner companies, assuming it's theirs, similar to people buying married/locked tuning devices on eBay and whatnot.

You would not be the average mustang owner. Most newer mustang owners just take the car to the dealership and drop it off

 

[Jackson1320]

If they are protecting there tunes then what gives them the Wright to lock parts of the tune that they made no changes to. If they didn’t make a change then they are locking data that is not there’s

 

[PaddyPrix]

What about dealerships selling cars without even knowing if it is tuned? In that case there no way of knowing who tuned the car so you can not get help. Purchasing a tuned car is not as uncommon as you would think. So who should pay for the new computer if you purchase a used car that is tuned and end up needing a computer because of it.
One person I know had a warranty repair denied because the car was tuned and he never knew because the dealership never told him and probably never knew

That's got to be a rarity. I haven't sold many of my cars off, but I do know that when you're doing the paperwork and whatnot, the dealer is doing their due diligence so they can bend you over as hard as possible. They wouldn't be using some OBD-II $19 code checker, but a full scanner which would dig down to see things that your display might not show as errors, things like wheel speed sensors, airbags missing, and other things that might clue them in, perhaps you got it in an accident and had it fixed at some cheap place to keep it off the books, and you got what you paid for. If they don't do it during your negotiation, they sure as heck would do it after, and certainly before they put it up for sale, and in that case, they'd almost likely have the same exact issue as I mentioned before, where it's not so much that the computer is locked, but that they couldn't communicate with it because the tunes change the value of the name/model which would prevent the scanner from properly decoding and knowing what it talks to. Perhaps they had another PCM just lying around, but they'd lose out on that history of what was going on, and I doubt they then found out what needed to be fixed, they did that, and then put that tuned and modified PCM back on. Probably found a way to flash the board back to factory, that's what I'd do, known-knowns instead of known-unknowns and unknown-unknowns.

That locking thing you're talking about is probably that Caterpillar / Deere tractor thing where you can't play with the computer on the tractor you have, so that they get a licensed technician to fix your stuff, preventing you from breaking something that might be rather complicated. Both sides make solid points, and there's nothing stopping you from putting your own computer in and starting from scratch, because freedom, 'murica. However, doing so should and would void the warranty you've work around all their safeguards they've put in place through all the QA and R&D trials and errors that they went through.

 

[Jackson1320]

That's got to be a rarity. I haven't sold many of my cars off, but I do know that when you're doing the paperwork and whatnot, the dealer is doing their due diligence so they can bend you over as hard as possible. They wouldn't be using some OBD-II $19 code checker, but a full scanner which would dig down to see things that your display might not show as errors, things like wheel speed sensors, airbags missing, and other things that might clue them in, perhaps you got it in an accident and had it fixed at some cheap place to keep it off the books, and you got what you paid for. If they don't do it during your negotiation, they sure as heck would do it after, and certainly before they put it up for sale, and in that case, they'd almost likely have the same exact issue as I mentioned before, where it's not so much that the computer is locked, but that they couldn't communicate with it because the tunes change the value of the name/model which would prevent the scanner from properly decoding and knowing what it talks to. Perhaps they had another PCM just lying around, but they'd lose out on that history of what was going on, and I doubt they then found out what needed to be fixed, they did that, and then put that tuned and modified PCM back on. Probably found a way to flash the board back to factory, that's what I'd do, known-knowns instead of known-unknowns and unknown-unknowns.

That locking thing you're talking about is probably that Caterpillar / Deere tractor thing where you can't play with the computer on the tractor you have, so that they get a licensed technician to fix your stuff, preventing you from breaking something that might be rather complicated. Both sides make solid points, and there's nothing stopping you from putting your own computer in and starting from scratch, because freedom, 'murica. However, doing so should and would void the warranty you've work around all their safeguards they've put in place through all the QA and R&D trials and errors that they went through.

It’s not as rare as you think. I know a few people that have purchased a tuned car. I have worked at dealerships and unless there’s a reason to check the computer( check engine light or obvious mods) then they don’t. 90% of the time they don’t even test drive it.

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