Cam Lockout tunes

[Medusa5oh]

Hello all!
Hope everyone is doing well. Those who have locked out cams, and even more so locked out cams with a supercharger setup, who tuned your car with lock outs? Are you happy with the drivability or is there more to be desired for? I know locked out cams aren’t going to drive like a stock car, but I also know the right tuner can make it pretty driver friendly. If it helps I’m located in the DMV area for local tuners or obviously e-tuners are welcome as well. Thank you for your help!

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[tdstuart]

Little off topic but curious as to what your reason for locking out the cams is.

Only seen people lockout cams when doing super aggressive N/A cams for all out N/A setups (usually stiffer valve springs). Are you installing aggressive supercharger cams / upgraded valve springs that require vct lockout? Plus I have heard that the stock cams are really good for boost.

Email Lund and see if they are willing to do it for you, I have heard they can be picky with really custom setups. Hopefully someone that has cam lockouts can respond haha.

 

[Medusa5oh]

Little off topic but curious as to what your reason for locking out the cams is.

Only seen people lockout cams when doing super aggressive N/A cams for all out N/A setups (usually stiffer valve springs). Are you installing aggressive supercharger cams / upgraded valve springs that require vct lockout? Plus I have heard that the stock cams are really good for boost.

Email Lund and see if they are willing to do it for you, I have heard they can be picky with really custom setups. Hopefully someone that has cam lockouts can respond haha.

Your question is valid and my answer is definitely controversial. I’m kinda in a place with mods where I’m like why not? Although the stock cams are very efficient even past the power level I desire, a large part of me going with aftermarket cams besides power is the sound. With lockouts you can get a coyote to chop. I know I know it’s been covered a million times a coyote is very efficient that’s why it doesn’t chop, etc but I think it would pretty cool to have a Whipple coyote with a side exhaust that chops, I’m 2/3 of the way to that vision. I know ghost cam tunes exist but they are more for show and don’t drive well worth anything, but with cam lockouts you can kinda get the best of both worlds. Yes drivability won’t be perfect but I know with the right tuner it’s definitely do able and honestly better for the car then a fake tune. Everyone’s opinions and insight are appreciated however!

 

[tdstuart]

Your question is valid and my answer is definitely controversial. I’m kinda in a place with mods where I’m like why not? Although the stock cams are very efficient even past the power level I desire, a large part of me going with aftermarket cams besides power is the sound. With lockouts you can get a coyote to chop. I know I know it’s been covered a million times a coyote is very efficient that’s why it doesn’t chop, etc but I think it would pretty cool to have a Whipple coyote with a side exhaust that chops, I’m 2/3 of the way to that vision. I know ghost cam tunes exist but they are more for show and don’t drive well worth anything, but with cam lockouts you can kinda get the best of both worlds. Yes drivability won’t be perfect but I know with the right tuner it’s definitely do able and honestly better for the car then a fake tune. Everyone’s opinions and insight are appreciated however!

Ah makes sense. Are you going to get bigger cams aswell then?

 

[Medusa5oh]

Ah makes sense. Are you going to get bigger cams aswell then?

Yessir, not sure on what combo I want to go with to get that sound, but I’ve seen plenty of people do it, I just need the not obvious details cleared up for me before I make a decision. I know Comp Mutha Thumpr cars chop hard in these cars with lockouts.

 

[tdstuart]

Yessir, not sure on what combo I want to go with to get that sound, but I’ve seen plenty of people do it, I just need the not obvious details cleared up for me before I make a decision. I know Comp Mutha Thumpr cars chop hard in these cars with lockouts.

I think you may have to get specific supercharger cams. Just make sure the cams will work with a supercharger and if they need upgraded springs/retainers.

Also mmr has nice plates to replace the vct solenoids if I remember right. Should save a decent amount of weight.

Good luck on your journey to the chop. Hopefully you won’t lose too much power.

 

[Medusa5oh]

I think you may have to get specific supercharger cams. Just make sure the cams will work with a supercharger and if they need upgraded springs/retainers.

Also mmr has nice plates to replace the vct solenoids if I remember right. Should save a decent amount of weight.

Good luck on your journey to the chop. Hopefully you won’t lose too much power.

Thank you! I guess where power goes down can always be made up elsewhere haha. Thanks for the suggestions I’m definitely getting blower cams no matter what if I do decide to go this route.

 

[Medusa5oh]

Bump!

 

[engineermike]

I’m confused. Are you saying you want mechanical lockouts or you just want the cams electronically locked out?

 

[Medusa5oh]

I’m confused. Are you saying you want mechanical lockouts or you just want the cams electronically locked out?

I was considering true mechanical lockouts, I know you can tune them to be locked out to have a similar affect however I’d assume mechanical lockouts when switching cams would be a bit easier.

 

[engineermike]

Locking them in the tune takes about 2 seconds.

 

[ice445]

IMO it's not worth it at all, locking out VCT means your low end torque takes a shit. I mean, I guess it's going to feel way more peaky when you actually get on it, but I have huge doubts it would be enjoyable compared to the stock programming.

 

[KingKona]

Stepping beyond the obvious loss of power and drivability from locking them out mechanically, I'd go with the tuned lock-out to give yourself the flexibility to go back to not locked if you don't like the locked cams.

What is "chop"?

 

[engineermike]

I’m still a little lost on the reasons why. If a “ghost cam” tune has too much “chop” then any decent tuner can easily remove some idle overlap to calm it down a bit.

If you choose to lock the cams then you have to choose what timing to lock them at.

You could lock them at 0, 0 which is the cold start and de-energized state. It’s not a bad compromise but won’t lope (if that’s your thing) and you’ll sacrifice fuel economy, torque below ~5000 rpm, and power above 5000.

If you want some lope, I think 0, 15 would give a little lope, but you’d make the torque and power compromises listed above.

WOT at 5000 rpm seems to be about the breakpoint where all possible intake cam timings break even. You can advance up to 20 deg and gain torque below 5000 while sacrificing power above it. You can retard up to 30, though 10-20 seems to work best. This will scream above 5000 but be a turd below 5000.

Or you could leave it functional and get all the low end plus the top end, not having to sacrifice anywhere.

I did something similar to this while tuning the mapped points. I believe it’s been described as “mapped point isolation” where you electronically lock the cam timing at a single mapped point and fully tune the spark/torque/SD for that mapped point, then move on to another. Once all mapped points are tuned, you turn the tivct back on and you’re done. In doing this I was able to get a sense of how each possible locked cam timing combination drove. Since ford uses a torque-based system and each cam timing has its own torque calibration, you actually couldn’t tell any difference at part throttle between, say, 20, 0 and -20, 20 except fuel economy, idle quality, and WOT. I can say from experience that 20, 0 was a slug down low and -20, 20 ran out of steam up top like an LS motor.

 

[Medusa5oh]

IMO it's not worth it at all, locking out VCT means your low end torque takes a shit. I mean, I guess it's going to feel way more peaky when you actually get on it, but I have huge doubts it would be enjoyable compared to the stock programming.

I’ve began to agree

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