Buying a GT350 or 24'GT-DH

[JAJ]

it's a track pack
https://ryanmillexclusivecars.com/en/vehicles/ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-2/

However you don't get the Sync 3 with the screen and 9 speakers.

I have a 2016 GT350 Track Pack that I bought new in 2016. I invested in the parts to update the Sync to 2018 Sync3. Bigger screen, nav, etc. Works very well.

56.000km/35.000mi

I've got 49,000km and it's all good. About 5,000km of track time.

Which were the problems with 2016-2018 models?

Regarding engines and engine problems, there are, for all practical purposes, three model year groups of GT350 Voodoo's.

The 2015/16 years delivered the car and engine exactly as designed and homologated by Ford Performance. As @Tomster said they have proven to be sound and reliable, so long as the engine and the ECU tune are (and always have been) stock.

The 2017/18 model year Voodoo's have a reputation for problems, although there's no hard evidence that they actually deserve it. If you search for "Voodoo engine failures" most of the hits will be about engines in those model years.

The 2019/2020 Voodoo's are doing well. Owners of these engines seem to share a deep and abiding belief that these late production engines are vastly superior to all previous versions. Perhaps it comforts them in times of need. In any case, late production Voodoo's have the same specs and produce the same power as all previous Voodoo's.

As to the rest of the vehicle, there's not much to say. They all work pretty much the same and have similar amenities. One special thing about the 2015/16's is the door sill panels. They're unique to the first production run.

Sponsored

 

[Booboo]

Hi, I was waiting to buy a new 2024 Mustang. I just saw a GT350 with good price (in Europe is hard to find Shelby's) but is a 2016 model. I readed the 2019 model improved some things.
Checking the prices for GT350 are high (in USA and Europe even more) , specially 2019-2020 models.
Do you think is a good idea go for a Shelby or to 24"?

If you plan to keep the car forever go with the Shelby because it's frickin shelby cobra(yes cobra) 5.2L FPC one of a kind never to be built again and you can repair it when/if it breaks ($20,000) and then continue keeping it forever with a giant smile on your face every single time you drive it, everyone looking at you wondering what the hell is that beautiful noise trembling my nethers(translation: genitals). forever.

If youre going to keep it not forever, go with the DH since it has a warranty and you dont want to pay for possibly fixing the gt350 just to sell it. I also swore to myself to never buy a first year ford vehicle ever again so my advice is if you choose the DH then it is best to wait until the 2nd or 3rd year!

 

[Bullit]

I have a 2016 GT350 Track Pack that I bought new in 2016. I invested in the parts to update the Sync to 2018 Sync3. Bigger screen, nav, etc. Works very well.

Was easy to did it? Expensive?

 

[Hack]

How did the tech pack differ interiorly from the track pack cars? I thought the sofa seat option was the only difference on the inside.

The track pack has the tiny screen with the numbered buttons like the base Mustang and the tech pack has the larger screen with nav. My opinion is it was a major mistake by Ford. The GT350 is supposed to be a premium product and it was supposed to be the most track capable Mustang ever. No GT350 should have gotten the base interior and they all should have had coolers.

I believe the photos below are correct, but I don't see the toggles in them. There should be a row of toggles along the bottom of the stack right in front of the shifter. At least my tech pack car had them.

Track:

And tech:

Awesome that you did the it the oem way but i think for me changing the trans and trying to get it shipped too europe would be pretty much impossible

You are probably right that it would at least be difficult.

Which were the problems with 2016-2018 models?

I think oil consumption issues were more common on the early cars. Ford changed the pistons and rings in the later cars. The early rings and pistons are no longer available.

My belief based on the information I've read here and my 3.5 years owning and driving a 2016 about 30,000 miles is that the thinner early rings can be deformed more easily. I think some of the issues were assembly related and showed up relatively early (first ~5,000 miles), but I also have suspicions that certain driving habits can damage those early rings.

I know a guy who owned 2 different GT350s and both of them had oil consumption/engine replacements. I believe possibly lugging the engine or lots of high rpm with no load might be hard on those early rings. So I would avoid buying a car with really low miles and I would be looking for oil consumption issues on a higher mileage car in those years.

Having said that, my 2016 never burned oil and I never had any issues. So I think if you got a good car and didn't mistreat it the car will be fine. But I don't think that means that every single one of them is fine.

And oil consumption doesn't necessarily mean a huge bill. It could be as easy as just buying new pistons and rings.

 

[honeybadger]

Plenty of 2016s had engine replacements - I’ve know quite a few. The Ford Racing school cars come to mind.

2017 definitely seemed to be the worst year, but they also made the most that year.

 

[Hack]

Plenty of 2016s had engine replacements - I’ve know quite a few. The Ford Racing school cars come to mind.

2017 definitely seemed to be the worst year, but they also made the most that year.

Those Ford Racing school cars ran on track almost every day, so my opinion is engine replacement would be expected after hundreds of track days.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

It’s no surprise with those cars. I wondered if some had ever driven a manual at all with some of what I saw when I was there. They did maintain them very very well.

Those Ford Racing school cars ran on track almost every day, so my opinion is engine replacement would be expected after hundreds of track days.

 

[460Fred]

It’s no surprise with those cars. I wondered if some had ever driven a manual at all with some of what I saw when I was there. They did maintain them very very well.

Correct me if I’m wrong.
The performance school was for “owners”. I hope they had experience with manuals.
I guess some mothballed their cars then flogged the FPRS cars.

 

[honeybadger]

Those Ford Racing school cars ran on track almost every day, so my opinion is engine replacement would be expected after hundreds of track days.

Here's the thing, flogged or not, the engine is still flawed and unable to handle it. I haven't kept up with the GT500 school cars since I'm not invested in that platform - but I can tell you the AMGs, BMWs, and Porsche schools don't have this issue. They're not going through multiple transmissions and engines for each car.

At the end of the day - there are two things to keep in mind about the Voodoo. It's inherently flawed and will absolutely shake anything around it (and itself to death) given enough time. For some, that could be 1k miles. Others could be 18k of track miles. And some will be 150-200k of highway miles cruising.

The second thing is there were multiple parts issues that caused a run of bad engines - from ringlands to valves to secondary tensioners.

It's clear that low RPMs and an engine free of parts issues will minimize issues and keep it going a long time. And it's also clear that track use will make things wear faster. But it doesn't change how fast this motor will kill itself.

If I was OP, I would DH unless you have a weakness for the Voodoo. If you do, get an extended warranty. Great engine - just pricey and temperamental.

It’s no surprise with those cars. I wondered if some had ever driven a manual at all with some of what I saw when I was there. They did maintain them very very well.

It was surprising to me. FRPS is not the first to have school cars - but they might be the first that had to replace engines and transmissions in every single car they owned.

 

[Hack]

Here's the thing, flogged or not, the engine is still flawed and unable to handle it. I haven't kept up with the GT500 school cars since I'm not invested in that platform - but I can tell you the AMGs, BMWs, and Porsche schools don't have this issue. They're not going through multiple transmissions and engines for each car.

At the end of the day - there are two things to keep in mind about the Voodoo. It's inherently flawed and will absolutely shake anything around it (and itself to death) given enough time. For some, that could be 1k miles. Others could be 18k of track miles. And some will be 150-200k of highway miles cruising.

The second thing is there were multiple parts issues that caused a run of bad engines - from ringlands to valves to secondary tensioners.

It's clear that low RPMs and an engine free of parts issues will minimize issues and keep it going a long time. And it's also clear that track use will make things wear faster. But it doesn't change how fast this motor will kill itself.

If I was OP, I would DH unless you have a weakness for the Voodoo. If you do, get an extended warranty. Great engine - just pricey and temperamental.



It was surprising to me. FRPS is not the first to have school cars - but they might be the first that had to replace engines and transmissions in every single car they owned.

I guess we will agree to disagree on some of the things you said. NASCAR engines are rebuilt after 1,000 miles or two race weekends. Voodoos last longer. Does that mean that the cross plane crank V8 NASCAR engine design is flawed and flat plane is much better?

I think if a Voodoo engine fails in 1,000 miles, there was a defective part installed or the installation was done improperly. I don't think 1,000 mile failures can be blamed on the Voodoo design or construction. I mean, come on - the Voodoo isn't absolute crap like NASCAR engines, right? (sarcasm)

All engines vibrate. Vibration is not a flaw. It's a design characteristic. And all engines fail.

I agree there were multiple parts issues. Yep. And I think there were installation issues in some cars and I think driver error as well. That doesn't enter much into advice for someone buying a used car, though. Defective parts are going to be early failures, so if the car has some miles on it, those issues are sorted.

I find it hard to believe that zero engines are ever replaced in BMW, Porsche, or AMG schools. Well, maybe if none of those schools have manual transmission cars in them. Automatics are going to be easier on an engine. I still don't quite believe that, though. Unless the cars themselves are swapped out regularly before the engines or transmissions have time to fail. Then I see it being possible. But you are comparing much more expensive cars to a Ford. If the Voodoo and GT350 were $200K vehicles instead of $60K, things would be a little different.

I realize I am a little hypocritical about this, because I sold my GT350 and went to a Mustang GT. I think the 2017 and prior Coyote is fine. I prefer the Voodoo, but I decided I wanted to own something where I can find spares cheap in a local junkyard. I think Coyotes will fail with a lot of track use as well, but they are less expensive to maintain over time. So while I disagree that the Voodoo is flawed, I understand the sentiment behind what you are saying.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

It was/is. Several went from 3rd to 1st routinely. Watched one gentlemen(drove his 350 to the school), stuff it in to first gear at the braking point going in to the chicane and put the car in to the wall. Nasically made a right turn at speed. Not sure what his speed was at the start of braking but I was in the 135-140 range. Felt really bad for him, was his bday to and didn't buy the track insurance. The other thing that was pretty prevalent was people having the clutch partially engaged most of the time.

Correct me if I’m wrong.
The performance school was for “owners”. I hope they had experience with manuals.
I guess some mothballed their cars then flogged the FPRS cars.

 

[JAJ]

Here's the thing, flogged or not, the engine is still flawed and unable to handle it. I haven't kept up with the GT500 school cars since I'm not invested in that platform - but I can tell you the AMGs, BMWs, and Porsche schools don't have this issue. They're not going through multiple transmissions and engines for each car.

At the end of the day - there are two things to keep in mind about the Voodoo. It's inherently flawed and will absolutely shake anything around it (and itself to death) given enough time. For some, that could be 1k miles. Others could be 18k of track miles. And some will be 150-200k of highway miles cruising.

The second thing is there were multiple parts issues that caused a run of bad engines - from ringlands to valves to secondary tensioners.

It's clear that low RPMs and an engine free of parts issues will minimize issues and keep it going a long time. And it's also clear that track use will make things wear faster. But it doesn't change how fast this motor will kill itself.

If I was OP, I would DH unless you have a weakness for the Voodoo. If you do, get an extended warranty. Great engine - just pricey and temperamental.



It was surprising to me. FRPS is not the first to have school cars - but they might be the first that had to replace engines and transmissions in every single car they owned.

Hmmm... my recollection is that the only factory Voodoo problem you had was a broken valve spring that shed bits into the oiling system. The engine problems you've had since then have been on "built" engines. Thing is, @steveespo just had a brilliantly "built" Coyote blow up at a track. Same track and location where @JeffV8 had his "built" Coyote fail. I'm not sure that experience with built engines is directly applicable to factory engines. The parts are different as is the use-case.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Porsche wasn’t/isn’t immune from the issue’s. Several of the 911 variants have had them. Have good friend that’s a porsche tech, was merc and audi as well. I get to hear all about them. I don’t take it as anything other then what it is. Mechanical stuff breaks and engineers don’t always get it perfect. There’s also a huge difference in a car with an msrp like the 350 had and where the german stuff is. In any of the track stuff I’ve been involved with(mostly bikes) we were in the engines regularly. It was just part of it.

Here's the thing, flogged or not, the engine is still flawed and unable to handle it. I haven't kept up with the GT500 school cars since I'm not invested in that platform - but I can tell you the AMGs, BMWs, and Porsche schools don't have this issue. They're not going through multiple transmissions and engines for each car.

At the end of the day - there are two things to keep in mind about the Voodoo. It's inherently flawed and will absolutely shake anything around it (and itself to death) given enough time. For some, that could be 1k miles. Others could be 18k of track miles. And some will be 150-200k of highway miles cruising.

The second thing is there were multiple parts issues that caused a run of bad engines - from ringlands to valves to secondary tensioners.

It's clear that low RPMs and an engine free of parts issues will minimize issues and keep it going a long time. And it's also clear that track use will make things wear faster. But it doesn't change how fast this motor will kill itself.

If I was OP, I would DH unless you have a weakness for the Voodoo. If you do, get an extended warranty. Great engine - just pricey and temperamental.



It was surprising to me. FRPS is not the first to have school cars - but they might be the first that had to replace engines and transmissions in every single car they owned.

 

[honeybadger]

I guess we will agree to disagree on some of the things you said. NASCAR engines are rebuilt after 1,000 miles or two race weekends. Voodoos last longer. Does that mean that the cross plane crank V8 NASCAR engine design is flawed and flat plane is much better?

I think if a Voodoo engine fails in 1,000 miles, there was a defective part installed or the installation was done improperly. I don't think 1,000 mile failures can be blamed on the Voodoo design or construction. I mean, come on - the Voodoo isn't absolute crap like NASCAR engines, right? (sarcasm)

All engines vibrate. Vibration is not a flaw. It's a design characteristic. And all engines fail.

I agree there were multiple parts issues. Yep. And I think there were installation issues in some cars and I think driver error as well. That doesn't enter much into advice for someone buying a used car, though. Defective parts are going to be early failures, so if the car has some miles on it, those issues are sorted.

I find it hard to believe that zero engines are ever replaced in BMW, Porsche, or AMG schools. Well, maybe if none of those schools have manual transmission cars in them. Automatics are going to be easier on an engine. I still don't quite believe that, though. Unless the cars themselves are swapped out regularly before the engines or transmissions have time to fail. Then I see it being possible. But you are comparing much more expensive cars to a Ford. If the Voodoo and GT350 were $200K vehicles instead of $60K, things would be a little different.

I realize I am a little hypocritical about this, because I sold my GT350 and went to a Mustang GT. I think the 2017 and prior Coyote is fine. I prefer the Voodoo, but I decided I wanted to own something where I can find spares cheap in a local junkyard. I think Coyotes will fail with a lot of track use as well, but they are less expensive to maintain over time. So while I disagree that the Voodoo is flawed, I understand the sentiment behind what you are saying.

Hmmm... my recollection is that the only factory Voodoo problem you had was a broken valve spring that shed bits into the oiling system. The engine problems you've had since then have been on "built" engines. Thing is, @steveespo just had a brilliantly "built" Coyote blow up at a track. Same track and location where @JeffV8 had his "built" Coyote fail. I'm not sure that experience with built engines is directly applicable to factory engines. The parts are different as is the use-case.

Porsche wasn’t/isn’t immune from the issue’s. Several of the 911 variants have had them. Have good friend that’s a porsche tech, was merc and audi as well. I get to hear all about them. I don’t take it as anything other then what it is. Mechanical stuff breaks and engineers don’t always get it perfect. There’s also a huge difference in a car with an msrp like the 350 had and where the german stuff is. In any of the track stuff I’ve been involved with(mostly bikes) we were in the engines regularly. It was just part of it.

I get that ya'll are defensive of the voodoo. I never said the Voodoo was crap (quite the opposite) and I never said it failed to do what Ford designed it to do. Just said it will vibrate itself to death given enough time. You don't have to believe me - you can go talk to the Ford Racing School people, the racing/parts supplier engineers involved in the GT4 program, or the powertrain engineers at Ford. I have and it's informed my opinion.

Sure - we can argue all day about what defines success or not - but at the end of the day, the facts stand. Voodoos fail pretty commonly and that's something that someone needs to consider when comparing a car with this engine vs another similar car.

Personally, when folks are so scared of the engine they're buying 5-7 year warranties on it to extend beyond the manufacturers powertrain, that's a bad sign. And when you have seen as many completely stock voodoo motors explode as I have, you'd probably consider it a flawed engine too. Flawed doesn't mean crap - it just means flawed. Some of the best cars in the world are flawed.

I'm going to leave my involvement in this thread at that since I don't want to trash out the OP's discussion anymore than I already have.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I'm not defensive at all just simply pointing out the brands you referenced have issue's as well. The last time I was at the school one of the other participants was the head of ford performance. I got to talk to him quite a bit. He referenced the engine and how it was hand built like what porsche does, the big difference was they(ford) were using a ford supply chain. He wasn't knocking there suppliers just simply stating they were not at the same level as what porsche used. Obviously there's a major price difference there between the two as well. The commonly comment can be disputed. One thing that is common is any time a voodoo has an issue it's parroted far and wide. You don't see that same scenario play out with any other platform that I can think of.

I get that ya'll are defensive of the voodoo. I never said the Voodoo was crap (quite the opposite) and I never said it failed to do what Ford designed it to do. Just said it will vibrate itself to death given enough time. You don't have to believe me - you can go talk to the Ford Racing School people, the racing/parts supplier engineers involved in the GT4 program, or the powertrain engineers at Ford. I have and it's informed my opinion.

Sure - we can argue all day about what defines success or not - but at the end of the day, the facts stand. Voodoos fail pretty commonly and that's something that someone needs to consider when comparing a car with this engine vs another similar car.

Personally, when folks are so scared of the engine they're buying 5-7 year warranties on it to extend beyond the manufacturers powertrain, that's a bad sign. And when you have seen as many completely stock voodoo motors explode as I have, you'd probably consider it a flawed engine too. Flawed doesn't mean crap - it just means flawed. Some of the best cars in the world are flawed.

I'm going to leave my involvement in this thread at that since I don't want to trash out the OP's discussion anymore than I already have.

Sponsored