Blown motor last night

[jbailer]

So if I understand you correctly, the weak point is the stock rods. If only the rods were upgraded the engine would rate higher safe hp?

And along with those upgraded rods goes the upgraded rod bolts!

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[apx632]

Without hesitation. We design our engine upgrades to ensure of this. Except for some race only one off builds, all of our upgrades are designed around making power reliably in a street car.



Yes, but the OEM piston is right behind it. So even if the rod was better, 380 or so would be around that hypothetical limit.

This makes me a very happy person. I believe it was y'all who posted up that one of the weak points at high hp in these motors is that the block flexes, thus the brace that you design really makes a difference in reliability. So when I saw your 600hp motor and the brace I knew myself that's the one I would rather go with over the others. Even if I'm not going to make 600hp.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

This makes me a very happy person. I believe it was y'all who posted up that one of the weak points at high hp in these motors is that the block flexes, thus the brace that you design really makes a difference in reliability. So when I saw your 600hp motor and the brace I knew myself that's the one I would rather go with over the others. Even if I'm not going to make 600hp.

Thank you for the kind words! With the EB engines we have done in the past, we knew this would be a definite road block at some point, so we developed it very early on in our engine program, and then did the proper testing to determine the points where it became a necessity. But, even the lower level builds can see a benefit from it too.

 

[K-Roll302]

I was wondering as to why or if the stock block could/couldn't be upgraded or built with the same upgraded parts as the Powerstorm short blocks? Could it possibly be cheaper to just remove the stock block from the car and build it up, rather than replace the whole block?

 

[ElAviator72]

We rate the stock engine as a 350hp max safe level. anything after this you're on borrowed time. It might not fail immediately, but it's a matter of when, not if. In theory, if we did a race engine with the lesser of the 2 rods, it would likely be rated to 550 as the added rigidity of the block structure would translate into some improved handling ability of the engine as a whole, even with the lesser rod. But, I don't think anyone would ever spring for the full race build, and then decide to put the lesser rod in it. As for that rod, it does have a 3/8" 220,000 PSI material bolt.

So you're saying that anyone who's applied the Ford ProCal Tune (400 HP, on the engine dyno) has created a ticking time bomb? :shrug:

 

[metalhead79]

So you're saying that anyone who's applied the Ford ProCal Tune (400 HP, on the engine dyno) has created a ticking time bomb? :shrug:

FP tune is rated at 335hp/390tq at the crank on a stock car. Even if a tune alone could get an EB to 400hp, Ford would NEVER let that happen. It would be to close in power to the 5.0.

 

[jbailer]

So you're saying that anyone who's applied the Ford ProCal Tune (400 HP, on the engine dyno) has created a ticking time bomb? :shrug:

Where did you get 400hp from? It's nowhere near that.

 

[metalhead79]

I think he was looking at the torque rating.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I was wondering as to why or if the stock block could/couldn't be upgraded or built with the same upgraded parts as the Powerstorm short blocks? Could it possibly be cheaper to just remove the stock block from the car and build it up, rather than replace the whole block?

We could definitely build from a customer's block. We do that often on many other platforms. Unfortunately to date most of the builds we have done were not preemptive, but reactive. They pushed it too hard because they weren't properly informed on the safety limits (or flat ignored it), or disabled too many safeties and ended up needing an engine, without a good stock piece to work from.

So you're saying that anyone who's applied the Ford ProCal Tune (400 HP, on the engine dyno) has created a ticking time bomb? :shrug:

We were referring to WHP as that is what the original question posed to us was about, so we were keeping it consistent.

 

[TheLion]

And here I was just criticized heavily for "promoting" Livernois or being a "fan boy"...maybe some of us can see why? Because of their experience, quality, level of detail, extensive R&D processes and testing / validation processes. They just might know what they are talking about and at a greater level of detail than they are given credit for. It takes talent to recognize it.

These are the same reasons so many are gravitating towards the Ford Performance offerings, because they recognize the benefits, one of the greatest being reliability which is crucial in any car, daily driver or not. Much of what Livernois offers is the next evolution once you move past what Ford Performance is offering, especially if your warranty has run it's course and your looking for more.

But I digress, this is not helpful in particular to the owner of this thread, just wanted to point out some things that needed addressed and the reasoning behind my ardent support of Livernois and Ford Performance for street car / daily driver applications.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

And here I was just criticized heavily for "promoting" Livernois or being a "fan boy"...maybe some of us can see why? Because of their experience, quality, level of detail, extensive R&D processes and testing / validation processes. They just might know what they are talking about and at a greater level of detail than they are given credit for. It takes talent to recognize it.

These are the same reasons so many are gravitating towards the Ford Performance offerings, because they recognize the benefits, one of the greatest being reliability which is crucial in any car, daily driver or not. Much of what Livernois offers is the next evolution once you move past what Ford Performance is offering, especially if your warranty has run it's course and your looking for more.

But I digress, this is not helpful in particular to the owner of this thread, just wanted to point out some things that needed addressed and the reasoning behind my ardent support of Livernois and Ford Performance for street car / daily driver applications.

Our goal is to provide great power and performance but with added reliability and longevity of the engine. Threads like these are a great time to educate everyone including find out new information ourselves. We thank you and hope that all the information included in this thread leads to more caution and planning in everyone's builds along with answering any questions that may have been lingering out there. Sometimes unfortunate circumstances can bring to light issues/concerns/questions that fellow members have not found the correct avenue or opportunity to bring up and allows us to answer them to the best of our abilities based on experience and testing.

 

[TheLion]

Anyone wanna sticky this thread? There's a lot of great info in there that explains the power limits of the stock block, rods and pistons etc.

 

[KadenW23]

Just an update on the car:

So I just received a call from my local for dealership where I had it towed. It will not be covered under warranty (as expected) but it was worth a shot.:shrug:

Now it is time to decide what to do with the car. Of course Ford threw in their quote of $7,000 to order a new crate motor and have it installed. Which is a huge chunk of money to get the exact same limitations what I had in the first place. But of course it will be the quickest way as they said the car would be ready to go next week. On top of that the new motor comes 3 year compete coverage.

So this brings me to my next section of though. IF (and I say if strongly because there is a strong possibility of this happening) there is no damage to the heads or surrounding parts would I be able to get away with just a short block and continue to use my old head, turbo, intake manifold, and so on....? I've seen that Livernois's street block and upgraded rods is $4,000, that still leaves me 3,000 to get the old components swapped to the new motor.

I haven't completely made up my mind as to which route I should take, but I am weighing my options and need to make up my mind pretty soon.

Any further insight and prior experience with this topic is greatly appreciated.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Just an update on the car:

So I just received a call from my local for dealership where I had it towed. It will not be covered under warranty (as expected) but it was worth a shot.:shrug:

Now it is time to decide what to do with the car. Of course Ford threw in their quote of $7,000 to order a new crate motor and have it installed. Which is a huge chunk of money to get the exact same limitations what I had in the first place. But of course it will be the quickest way as they said the car would be ready to go next week. On top of that the new motor comes 3 year compete coverage.

So this brings me to my next section of though. IF (and I say if strongly because there is a strong possibility of this happening) there is no damage to the heads or surrounding parts would I be able to get away with just a short block and continue to use my old head, turbo, intake manifold, and so on....? I've seen that Livernois's street block and upgraded rods is $4,000, that still leaves me 3,000 to get the old components swapped to the new motor.

I haven't completely made up my mind as to which route I should take, but I am weighing my options and need to make up my mind pretty soon.

Any further insight and prior experience with this topic is greatly appreciated.

Feel free to give us a call or a PM and we can talk out strategy and lead time and such. I'll also send one.

 

[perfweld]

Just an update on the car:

So I just received a call from my local for dealership where I had it towed. It will not be covered under warranty (as expected) but it was worth a shot.:shrug:

Now it is time to decide what to do with the car. Of course Ford threw in their quote of $7,000 to order a new crate motor and have it installed. Which is a huge chunk of money to get the exact same limitations what I had in the first place. But of course it will be the quickest way as they said the car would be ready to go next week. On top of that the new motor comes 3 year compete coverage.

So this brings me to my next section of though. IF (and I say if strongly because there is a strong possibility of this happening) there is no damage to the heads or surrounding parts would I be able to get away with just a short block and continue to use my old head, turbo, intake manifold, and so on....? I've seen that Livernois's street block and upgraded rods is $4,000, that still leaves me 3,000 to get the old components swapped to the new motor.

I haven't completely made up my mind as to which route I should take, but I am weighing my options and need to make up my mind pretty soon.

Any further insight and prior experience with this topic is greatly appreciated.

I have not broke my factory engine, but took it out willingly. I had started on an engine early in the year thinking one day your situation would be me, but id have a spare, the race engine is in my car now, and the stock one is at Essliners in CA getting built up.



Problem is that the dealer has you by the nuts now, they will most likely charge you for the engine removal and inspection. Id be on the hunt for a race engine that can be shipped to the dealer for them to install, and ask them if the car can sit in the back lot till you find one. ( that's if you wanna keep the car ) if your not gonna keep the car, find the cheapest way out !!

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