Audio Signal Quesion.

[Olshbk4]

Hey everyone,

So I am currently redoing the sound system on my 2020 GT 9 speaker. I will list all of the gear I have and some of the issues I am having.

Rockford Fosgate T2652-S
Rockford Fosgate P132
Rockford Fosgate P500-12P
AudioControl D-4.800
AudioControl LC7iPRO

For now the rear decks are going to stay as is, and I am not even touching the front dash speaker.

So a couple things I am confused about, and I have dug into this forum but some of the information must be buried because I went through about 30 pages of a post last night.

1. Audio signal, I will be using forscan to level out the EQ, BUT, do I pull my signal from before or after the amp? I was planning on using all new speaker wire for this build, So I really don't see why I couldn't pull after the amp and feed to my Lc7i, but if there is an easier route I am okay with that. Or is the new speaker wire completely unnecessary and I should just use the factory wiring(except for the tweeter).

2. These speakers do not fit, which I already know and made a conscious decision about. The mounting height of the speaker is .437" and the door will take a .379", but those metra brackets are damn near an inch thick. I can make my own brackets if I need to, but if anyone knows of a thinner off the shelf option I would much rather go that route. I realistically only need to pick up .058 to clear the front, and I have almost 3/4th and inch of depth at 2.518 mounted normally and 3.39 available.

Thanks to all the people who have done the endless research, I have been digging for like 2 weeks on the signal thing, but I just found out about 6g a couple days ago.

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[MiamiGT350]

You will have to check the compatibility with your MY, but here's some guidance on my experience.

I removed the factory amp in the upper-left foot-well and used the iDataLink F03 wiring harness to feed into a JL Audio Fix 86 to clean up and flatten the signal. The Fix 86 does near-nothing to flatten/correct the factory signal, with or without Forscan edits. At least in the GT350, my opinion would be that signal-correction isn't an issue, and the Fix 86 was a waste.

You can use Forscan to remove the fake engine sound, etc, but I personally haven't noticed a lot of difference between the settings. I see everyone doing direct HEX value edits in Forscan; I have the paid version and all these audio settings are just toggle options under the DACMC module. My car is Dynamat'd, so perhaps there just isn't enough exterior sounds for me to notice a difference in the Forscan settings. YMMV

Here's a link to the factory wiring diagrams I referenced for the wiring harness. Here's a direct link to wiring diagram for the system (not mine, and I no longer have a link to the post).

I didn't use the Cat 6e cable for the low-voltage signals, and instead ran RCA. Make sure you use a high quality and shielded RCA as I went through a few pairs chasing "static." If I get bored one day, I may swap them to the network cable.

For the door speaker mounts, I used these speaker adapters. Perhaps they suit your needs, or inspire you to make your own.

I re-ran speaker wire from the rear of the car. I would recommend not going too thick as there isn't a lot of space in the door trim to fit cables.

An easier route is to just tap the high voltage signal at a rear speaker. If you search the forums, there is a wire you can tap for the remote-on.

 

[Evolvd]

Check out Soundsgoodstereo.com they have 6.5” adapters for our cars. I have them in mine and they are lower profile than the crappy Metra units.

 

[Olshbk4]

You will have to check the compatibility with your MY, but here's some guidance on my experience.

I removed the factory amp in the upper-left foot-well and used the iDataLink F03 wiring harness to feed into a JL Audio Fix 86 to clean up and flatten the signal. The Fix 86 does near-nothing to flatten/correct the factory signal, with or without Forscan edits. At least in the GT350, my opinion would be that signal-correction isn't an issue, and the Fix 86 was a waste.

You can use Forscan to remove the fake engine sound, etc, but I personally haven't noticed a lot of difference between the settings. I see everyone doing direct HEX value edits in Forscan; I have the paid version and all these audio settings are just toggle options under the DACMC module. My car is Dynamat'd, so perhaps there just isn't enough exterior sounds for me to notice a difference in the Forscan settings. YMMV

Here's a link to the factory wiring diagrams I referenced for the wiring harness. Here's a direct link to wiring diagram for the system (not mine, and I no longer have a link to the post).

I didn't use the Cat 6e cable for the low-voltage signals, and instead ran RCA. Make sure you use a high quality and shielded RCA as I went through a few pairs chasing "static." If I get bored one day, I may swap them to the network cable.

For the door speaker mounts, I used these speaker adapters. Perhaps they suit your needs, or inspire you to make your own.

I re-ran speaker wire from the rear of the car. I would recommend not going too thick as there isn't a lot of space in the door trim to fit cables.

An easier route is to just tap the high voltage signal at a rear speaker. If you search the forums, there is a wire you can tap for the remote-on.

So initially I thought about just tapping the rear speakers, and that would give me 2 channels, but I need 3 additional ones. And I mean I could split them, I'm just worried about quality loss.

 

[StangTime]

So initially I thought about just tapping the rear speakers, and that would give me 2 channels, but I need 3 additional ones. And I mean I could split them, I'm just worried about quality loss.

Don't tap the rear speakers for signals for your system and do not use a line out converter. This is generally a bad practice.
Take the head unit signals from the black connector in the drivers kick panel area. You will have Front L&R and Rear L&R... 4 channels. This will let you fade front to rear to balance the sound how you want. That DSP amp has line outputs that you will use to create a mono sub woofer output to feed your sub amp. BTW, using a DSP amp and using passive crossovers isn't ideal either. You won't be able to utilize the delay settings to get the sound arriving at your ears at the same time.

I suggest you study my system wiring and my system build. It's a full active 2-way with a sub all powered from a single 5 channel amp and external DSP. I'm running the system from the Front L&R only. I connected the Rear L&R in case I wanted to expand my system one day. But after I have tuned it I have no need for more. Simple and effective and it's the best sounding system I have ever heard in a car. Just because your car has holes for 9 speakers doesn't mean you should use them all.

Tech and wiring info here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...o-systems-no-loc-required.159271/post-3244386

Inter-connect diagram for low-level signals: View attachment Audio Signal Wiring Black AFO3.pdf

And my install is here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...t-satisfying-stereo-build.187266/post-3763084

My complete wiring diagram: View attachment Audio System Wiring Jul12-2021.pdf

 

[Olshbk4]

Don't tap the rear speakers for signals for your system and do not use a line out converter. This is generally a bad practice.
Take the head unit signals from the black connector in the drivers kick panel area. You will have Front L&R and Rear L&R... 4 channels. This will let you fade front to rear to balance the sound how you want. That DSP amp has line outputs that you will use to create a mono sub woofer output to feed your sub amp. BTW, using a DSP amp and using passive crossovers isn't ideal either. You won't be able to utilize the delay settings to get the sound arriving at your ears at the same time.

I suggest you study my system wiring and my system build. It's a full active 2-way with a sub all powered from a single 5 channel amp and external DSP. I'm running the system from the Front L&R only. I connected the Rear L&R in case I wanted to expand my system one day. But after I have tuned it I have no need for more. Simple and effective and it's the best sounding system I have ever heard in a car. Just because your car has holes for 9 speakers doesn't mean you should use them all.

Tech and wiring info here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...o-systems-no-loc-required.159271/post-3244386

Inter-connect diagram for low-level signals: View attachment Audio Signal Wiring Black AFO3.pdf

And my install is here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...t-satisfying-stereo-build.187266/post-3763084

My complete wiring diagram: View attachment Audio System Wiring Jul12-2021.pdf

So I had read somewhere that taking the signal from before the amplifier caused the volume control knob on the head unit to stop working, that you could only take after the amplifier since it controls the volume itself. But obviously you were able to do it without issue, this is the only reason I ended up going the LOC route.

Realistically none of this is purchased yet aside from my amps and subwoofer. So I have no issues changing my plan a little bit.


Going to type the rest of this as I read your install, that way my questions are in some sort of order.

Is there a harness that is available to purchase to do it your way? or will I have to create my own?

Are you happy with the abandonment of the 3.5" speaker? as it sits in my build right now I was planning on doing all 6 of those up front, and just leaving the dash and rear speakers alone, but cutting the 3.5" would allow me to easier do full active on the two way, without having to add another amp.

What material did you use for the 3D printed mounts?

Lastly, so do I need to run a standalone DSP? I kinda figure my amp could just do it if I am going to go your route, although I like the idea of an additional controller I could mount up front.

 

[MiamiGT350]

You don't need the center dash speaker and won't miss it. In factory, it is just the left and right channels combined, anyhow.

The volume knob works just fine if you use the low level outputs from the amp. No truth in others saying it doesn't work as far as I know.

Important: door chimes, etc generate with the factory amp unit and output in the factory speakers. So just be aware that those will change and will start using a fallback speaker in the dash if you get rid of the factory amp. Everything else works just fine. Unplug it and test.

 

[StangTime]

So I had read somewhere that taking the signal from before the amplifier caused the volume control knob on the head unit to stop working, that you could only take after the amplifier since it controls the volume itself. But obviously you were able to do it without issue, this is the only reason I ended up going the LOC route.

Realistically none of this is purchased yet aside from my amps and subwoofer. So I have no issues changing my plan a little bit.Going to type the rest of this as I read your install, that way my questions are in some sort of order.Is there a harness that is available to purchase to do it your way? or will I have to create my own?Are you happy with the abandonment of the 3.5" speaker? as it sits in my build right now I was planning on doing all 6 of those up front, and just leaving the dash and rear speakers alone, but cutting the 3.5" would allow me to easier do full active on the two way, without having to add another amp.What material did you use for the 3D printed mounts?Lastly, so do I need to run a standalone DSP? I kinda figure my amp could just do it if I am going to go your route, although I like the idea of an additional controller I could mount up front.

No issues with the head unit volume on the 9 speaker system. Works as it should with signals running off the black plug. As mentioned, the dings and dongs of the car will now sound through the gauge cluster. This is a non issue, the alerts sound fine this way. Sync voice and phone calls will still work over the stereo speakers.

You can build a harness with the black connector from the AF03 harness with off the shelf parts. More info:

Links to the parts:
DVR Ethernet Screw Terminals
Cat6 STP cable
RCA to AV screw terminal adapters
Optional: Wire ferrules and a crimper. Keeps the wires from fraying on the ends.

What the amp end looks like when assembled:

The input side of this cable connects directly to the AF03 harness through the DVR adapter and eliminates the need for a line output converter.

Absolutely no issue if going without the door midrange. But you need good drivers for this. A 3-way works well but this adds complications and additional amplifier channels.

The DSP in the D4.800 amp should be fine as long as it let's you EQ the line outs that will feed the subwoofer/amp.

I used PVC sheet for my original 6.5" mounts.

If you want to just cut them from PVC as shown above, use this drawing:

For 3D versions ,print with ABS.

You can download the 3D files from my google drive:

 

[Olshbk4]

No issues with the head unit volume on the 9 speaker system. Works as it should with signals running off the black plug. As mentioned, the dings and dongs of the car will now sound through the gauge cluster. This is a non issue, the alerts sound fine this way. Sync voice and phone calls will still work over the stereo speakers.

You can build a harness with the black connector from the AF03 harness with off the shelf parts. More info:

Links to the parts:
DVR Ethernet Screw Terminals
Cat6 STP cable
RCA to AV screw terminal adapters
Optional: Wire ferrules and a crimper. Keeps the wires from fraying on the ends.

What the amp end looks like when assembled:

The input side of this cable connects directly to the AF03 harness through the DVR adapter and eliminates the need for a line output converter.

Absolutely no issue if going without the door midrange. But you need good drivers for this. A 3-way works well but this adds complications and additional amplifier channels.

The DSP in the D4.800 amp should be fine as long as it let's you EQ the line outs that will feed the subwoofer/amp.

I used PVC sheet for my original 6.5" mounts.

If you want to just cut them from PVC as shown above, use this drawing:

For 3D versions ,print with ABS.

You can download the 3D files from my google drive:

Sweet, thanks for all the info. You're gonna save me some money and a bunch of time. Really appreciate it.

So I'm stuck between the rockford powers and the JL C3 components, either of those should work find if abandoning the 3.5" right? I kinda figure so.

 

[Evolvd]

Personally I prefer the 3-way to get proper staging. It’ll be harder to get the phantom speaker staging above your dash with just a 2-way.

 

[StangTime]

Personally I prefer the 3-way to get proper staging. It’ll be harder to get the phantom speaker staging above your dash with just a 2-way.

It can be done with a 2-way easily with lower crossover points and accurate distance measurements to get the timing delay correct. Crossing over between 2000 and 2500hz. This lifts the vocals up to the A pillar level and smack dead center. But you need a really good tweeter with a low resonant frequency. I can confirm I have vocalists sitting on my dash with great special placement across the entire width of the car and beyond the windows. Ultimately the choice comes down to how much do you want to spend and how far down the tuning hole do you want to go.

 

[StangTime]

Sweet, thanks for all the info. You're gonna save me some money and a bunch of time. Really appreciate it.

So I'm stuck between the rockford powers and the JL C3 components, either of those should work find if abandoning the 3.5" right? I kinda figure so.

Which tweeter has the lower Fs value? You can usually find this on the spec sheets.

 

[Olshbk4]

It can be done with a 2-way easily with lower crossover points and accurate distance measurements to get the timing delay correct. Crossing over between 2000 and 2500hz. This lifts the vocals up to the A pillar level and smack dead center. But you need a really good tweeter with a low resonant frequency. I can confirm I have vocalists sitting on my dash with great special placement across the entire width of the car and beyond the windows. Ultimately the choice comes down to how much do you want to spend and how far down the tuning hole do you want to go.

I will go pretty far down the tuning hole. I'm pretty nitpicky about my sound usually. My home audio system took me damn near 3 months before I had it tuned right.

The RF have the lower rf.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

I always love these audio system replacement threads as there is usually something new to learn.

That said, I had a thought, with regards to the door chimes and reverse beeping with the factory speakers— would it be possible to leave the factory amp installed and the 3.5 fronts and the rear 6.5 connected to just the amp for gongs? I’m thinking if you disconnect the inputs for audio to the amp it won’t play any actual music, but still play the gongs?

 

[StangTime]

I always love these audio system replacement threads as there is usually something new to learn.

That said, I had a thought, with regards to the door chimes and reverse beeping with the factory speakers— would it be possible to leave the factory amp installed and the 3.5 fronts and the rear 6.5 connected to just the amp for gongs? I’m thinking if you disconnect the inputs for audio to the amp it won’t play any actual music, but still play the gongs?

It's possible to do. All chimes are generated by the ACM. If the ACM cannot detect the DSP amp on the Canbus, it delegates the instrument cluster to play them.

This shows 8 signal lines coming from the ACM (lower left side). These are mixed appropriately inside the DSP amplifier to play over all the speakers in the audio system. Not just the dash speaker. The DSP amp also has speaker detection circuitry. In the event some or all the speakers are disconnected it may throw a trouble code onto the can bus. Again, the instrument panel then gets the ding-dong & doo-be-doo duty.

So to get chimes to play on a new audio system, you would need a T harness to parallel those audio signals. You will need a DSP with at least 4 inputs and the ability to mix the chimes channels into the audio channels before amplification. Also consider that the back-up beeper warnings come from the rear speakers. A new stereo system will need to have additional amplifier channels for this function alone.
Then you need to cut the speaker lines for the midrange/tweeters and center channel on the brown plug because this plug also provides power to the OEM amp and we can't have any speakers connected to this amp. The grey plug can be disconnected. Then the final step is to use Forscan to disable the speaker detection function on the amp so it doesn't throw a DTC.

That's a lot to deal with just to have electronic chimes playing through the new audio system when simply removing the OEM amp will do. The chimes are still very audible and clear through the instrument panel.

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