Any studies on how many Coyote engine have issues that need replacement

[IronG]

Been awhile since I have been active on the forum. Had 4 Mustangs so not stranger to them. In the past 3 years went from a custom '66 I had built to a Porsche and even a Miata but find myself missing that V8 sound and performance. When I got back looking at the forum I noticed a few posts on Coyote engines that needed to be replaced. My question: realizing more negative folks post than those that are pleased with their cars but curious if any stats have been collected on engines with significant issues that need replacement.

You are just traveling down the rabbit hole. There isn't anything to find other than an unknown small % that have had a bad engine. Even on this site it is tiny. Also take into account some that were user induced and the number gets smaller.

The Coyote is fairly low maintenance unless you track it often. Unless you are extremely unlucky you should be fine.

Sponsored

 

[Balr14]

Euphemism aside, I see little difference between careful and cheap. I believe they tend to be symbiotic tendencies defined only by whim of their own choosing. Nothing wrong at all with being able to buy what ya want, but I just want to keep it real. Most people are cheap about things they want to be cheap about. I was just pointing out why it didn’t make sense. (Because if you can buy a Porsche you can obviously afford to repair a mustang).

Just because you can afford to buy a Porsche doesn't mean you shouldn't do your homework when looking at other cars. I can afford to replace a Mustang engine, but if it didn't have metal sprayed cylinder liners I would not have bought one. That would have meant I'd still have the same potential problems (oil consumption and bore scoring) that I was trying to get away from.

 

[KingKona]

....If I am to pay a lot more I tend to expect better quality and that to me implies reliability......The notion I should accept engine failure while paying a premium just does not fit within my personal way of looking at things....

Well, BMW does exist. And great googly-moogly do they have engine failures.

 

[sk47]

Well, BMW does exist. And great googly-moogly do they have engine failures.

Self quote sk47
"I tend to have a different view on the more expensive makes. If I am to pay a lot more I tend to expect better quality and that to me implies reliability. I get that there are high strung levels of performance in some models which push the limits in some Porsche models just as there are the high strung GT350 and GT500."
"I shopped for a Porsche Cayman base model until they went with a four banger and never planned to race or abuse the engine. The notion I should accept engine failure while paying a premium just does not fit within my personal way of looking at things."

Hello; Not sure what you are driving at, so put my entire paragraph above. I underlined the parts you omitted. These portions add context. Let me try to make my point more clearly.

Porsche for sure and maybe BMW sell track ready cars. If I were to buy one and run it on a track and had a failure such would part of the deal. The track cars and some of the other high strung street models are tweaked and tuned to a very high level. I understand the potential to break one if I run it hard. They are tuned for high performance and can be at the edge of reliability. I figure the same to some degree for a Ford GT 350 and the GT500. If I buy one and run it hard there is a greater risk of engine failure.


On the other hand, if i buy a Porsche or BMW SUV for street driving, I do not expect an engine failure to be part of the deal. Sure, any make can and does have engine failures. Such failures ought to be very much rarer for an everyday driver compared to a track capable car. It indeed would be unrealistic to expect no failures at all-in mass-produced engines.

To be more specific my plan a couple of years ago was to have a Mustang with a V8 and an F-150 with a V8. I shopped for a base GT with no plans to run it very hard. Same for the pickup with the exception I might tow or haul some heavy loads on rare occasions. I walked away from a 2019 F-150 when the oil consumption question showed up. My thinking was to give things some time and Ford would have a fix or perhaps I could find the concerns were unfounded.

I joined this forum to seek information. So far, the jury is still out and I cannot find clear answers. A popular notion is the Gen III Coyote must be reliable else ford could not afford to have it in the F-150. I want such to be true. Thing is I had decided to go ahead and buy a base GT and had tried to make some deals. Had a couple of deals to my liking in terms of money but had odd things queer the deal at the last moment. Now prices and supply are crazy, so i wait.

One last point. I found a 2006 Porsche Cayman listed in the Knoxville TN Facebook marketplace yesterday. I sent a message asking if the IMS bearing upgrade has been done. The seller says no and explained it was not needed and the failure rate is low. I only posted "thanks" as an answer. That IMS issue is a basic design flaw which affected somewhere around 10% of engines is what i have found in my reading. The seller may be correct, and that engine may never fail. However, to my mind set I would always be aware of such a problem does exist. So, I will pass on that car. I do not claim my attitude to be necessarily realistic, but likely will pass on all such "known" issues in any brand. It is one thing to buy a car/ truck and later find out there are generic issues. Quite another to knowingly buy a vehicle with such issues.

Back to the specific issue. I personally do expect a higher dollar vehicle to be more reliable than a cheaper made vehicle. The exceptions being the very high performance models. I have a very reliable 2001 Nissan Sentra which did not cost too much when new. I can buy a new Sentra for half the cost of a Mustang GT. Maybe a third of the cost of some Mustang models. I get the base GT is tweaked to a higher degree than a Sentra. Am i being unrealistic to expect the engine in the GT to last and be reliable?

 

[KingKona]

Self quote sk47
"I tend to have a different view on the more expensive makes. If I am to pay a lot more I tend to expect better quality and that to me implies reliability. I get that there are high strung levels of performance in some models which push the limits in some Porsche models just as there are the high strung GT350 and GT500."
"I shopped for a Porsche Cayman base model until they went with a four banger and never planned to race or abuse the engine. The notion I should accept engine failure while paying a premium just does not fit within my personal way of looking at things."

Hello; Not sure what you are driving at, so put my entire paragraph above. I underlined the parts you omitted. These portions add context. Let me try to make my point more clearly.

Porsche for sure and maybe BMW sell track ready cars. If I were to buy one and run it on a track and had a failure such would part of the deal. The track cars and some of the other high strung street models are tweaked and tuned to a very high level. I understand the potential to break one if I run it hard. They are tuned for high performance and can be at the edge of reliability. I figure the same to some degree for a Ford GT 350 and the GT500. If I buy one and run it hard there is a greater risk of engine failure.


On the other hand, if i buy a Porsche or BMW SUV for street driving, I do not expect an engine failure to be part of the deal. Sure, any make can and does have engine failures. Such failures ought to be very much rarer for an everyday driver compared to a track capable car. It indeed would be unrealistic to expect no failures at all-in mass-produced engines.

To be more specific my plan a couple of years ago was to have a Mustang with a V8 and an F-150 with a V8. I shopped for a base GT with no plans to run it very hard. Same for the pickup with the exception I might tow or haul some heavy loads on rare occasions. I walked away from a 2019 F-150 when the oil consumption question showed up. My thinking was to give things some time and Ford would have a fix or perhaps I could find the concerns were unfounded.

I joined this forum to seek information. So far, the jury is still out and I cannot find clear answers. A popular notion is the Gen III Coyote must be reliable else ford could not afford to have it in the F-150. I want such to be true. Thing is I had decided to go ahead and buy a base GT and had tried to make some deals. Had a couple of deals to my liking in terms of money but had odd things queer the deal at the last moment. Now prices and supply are crazy, so i wait.

One last point. I found a 2006 Porsche Cayman listed in the Knoxville TN Facebook marketplace yesterday. I sent a message asking if the IMS bearing upgrade has been done. The seller says no and explained it was not needed and the failure rate is low. I only posted "thanks" as an answer. That IMS issue is a basic design flaw which affected somewhere around 10% of engines is what i have found in my reading. The seller may be correct, and that engine may never fail. However, to my mind set I would always be aware of such a problem does exist. So, I will pass on that car. I do not claim my attitude to be necessarily realistic, but likely will pass on all such "known" issues in any brand. It is one thing to buy a car/ truck and later find out there are generic issues. Quite another to knowingly buy a vehicle with such issues.

Back to the specific issue. I personally do expect a higher dollar vehicle to be more reliable than a cheaper made vehicle. The exceptions being the very high performance models. I have a very reliable 2001 Nissan Sentra which did not cost too much when new. I can buy a new Sentra for half the cost of a Mustang GT. Maybe a third of the cost of some Mustang models. I get the base GT is tweaked to a higher degree than a Sentra. Am i being unrealistic to expect the engine in the GT to last and be reliable?

My point was, that you pay a premium for the BMW label, and they have extremely awful engines that self-immolate like a protesting Tibetan monk.

Based on this wall of text above, don't buy a Ford.

Buy a Porsche. It's your only hope.

 

[Bikeman315]

So we take a thread that is asking for a Mustang GT study that does not exist, nor will it, and turn it into a BMW/Porsche pissing match. Man, I love this forum.

 

[IPOGT]

So we take a thread that is asking for a Mustang GT study that does not exist, nor will it, and turn it into a BMW/Porsche pissing match. Man, I love this forum.

It's entertainment. We all could use some.

 

[sk47]

My point was, that you pay a premium for the BMW label, and they have extremely awful engines that self-immolate like a protesting Tibetan monk.

Based on this wall of text above, don't buy a Ford.

Buy a Porsche. It's your only hope.

Hello; You threw in BMW for some reason. I mentioned Porsche and use the now classic example of a serious design flaw in about ten years of their engines. I am not up on the BMW engine issues you refer to, but do not doubt there are some.

Again, I want an expensive engine from any make to be reliable. I also want an engine from a daily driver model to be reliable. I tend to expect more from the high end makes simply because I will pay more. I still am not sure what you are trying to imply. My take so far is I should be satisfied if a Ford engine fails because expensive engines also fail.

I have owned some Fords and put a lot of miles on the engines. I have put a lot of miles on other engines. I have had failures in some engines almost always after I ran them hard. If i were to buy a GT and abuse the engine a failure would not be a surprise.

It is my take the OP is asking if any sort information record it available. Could be from Ford or from an enthusiast group or from some other source. The answer I found a couple of years ago is still the same today. That being no such source of information appears to exist.

I also figure some do not have throw away money for engine replacement as a routine thing. I guess it is somehow sad that people who want a Mustang cannot readily afford to replace engines.
Let me put it another way. I can afford to replace an engine or few. I do not want to have to. I will take good care of an engine and will run one under the maximum limit. Not speaking for the OP now at all, but I try to do some homework before I buy any vehicle the last few decades.

Near as I can determine Fords Gen III Coyote is as likely to be good as most. The new plasma cylinder lining method seems to mean no easy rebuilds, but that will not be a problem if the lining is durable.

 

[Garfy]

Ira,
I am sure in the broad scope of things you are correct and the chances of a Coyote engine self destructing is rare however, it does happen and all the opinions will not change that. I was not trying to start a back and forth war on whether or not a person likes or dislikes the Coyote just wondering about how many folks actually have faulty engines. I had a Gen one Coyote and it did very well and most do however, some folks on this forum seem to have issues or engines replaced on engines that are not FI or heavily modded. Opinions will not change that so I was looking for more specifics on what the cause might be and trying to get away from opinions..

Failures will always occur on anything that's man-made. Humans make mistakes so that's to be expected. Even billion dollar equipment fail, as noted by the loss of the Challenger and Columbia space shuttles and crews. Compared to the number of mission launches of the shuttles vs. failures, I'm certain the Coyote failures are significantly lower (and our stuff are mass-produced while the shuttles are assembled with much greater scrutiny). So for myself, I'm not too concerned about my car as most of it is built in North America; I'd be a little more concerned if a major component was made in China.

 

[1958cyclist]

Not that this will quell any concerns, but all manufacturers benchmark other manufacturers products and make evaluations based upon their discoveries. I found it quite interesting when a highly respected local shop was doing some suspension mods for me and who works on many foreign brands, was remarking on various suspension system designs on my Mustang that closely resembled designs from other brands mentioned in this forum thus far. One example of this is the splitter brake cooling ramps which he said he first saw used by Porsche.

The reason I bring this up is that almost no one would say that the quality of engineering and manufacturing in todays vehicles is not dramatically improved over those of the past. This is not to say that a specific brand couldn't come up with a new technology/engineering application that it's competitors haven't, but I think that it boils down to how any brand can take said technology, and manufacture it more efficiently.

 

[KingKona]

Hello; You threw in BMW for some reason. I mentioned Porsche and use the now classic example of a serious design flaw in about ten years of their engines. I am not up on the BMW engine issues you refer to, but do not doubt there are some.

Again, I want an expensive engine from any make to be reliable. I also want an engine from a daily driver model to be reliable. I tend to expect more from the high end makes simply because I will pay more. I still am not sure what you are trying to imply. My take so far is I should be satisfied if a Ford engine fails because expensive engines also fail.

I have owned some Fords and put a lot of miles on the engines. I have put a lot of miles on other engines. I have had failures in some engines almost always after I ran them hard. If i were to buy a GT and abuse the engine a failure would not be a surprise.

It is my take the OP is asking if any sort information record it available. Could be from Ford or from an enthusiast group or from some other source. The answer I found a couple of years ago is still the same today. That being no such source of information appears to exist.

I also figure some do not have throw away money for engine replacement as a routine thing. I guess it is somehow sad that people who want a Mustang cannot readily afford to replace engines.
Let me put it another way. I can afford to replace an engine or few. I do not want to have to. I will take good care of an engine and will run one under the maximum limit. Not speaking for the OP now at all, but I try to do some homework before I buy any vehicle the last few decades.

Near as I can determine Fords Gen III Coyote is as likely to be good as most. The new plasma cylinder lining method seems to mean no easy rebuilds, but that will not be a problem if the lining is durable.

You said you expect better engine reliability when paying for a premium vehicle. I pointed out that's a logical fallacy, with the example of BMW, and you with the Porsche IMS bearing.

No need to complicate things any further.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I think that it boils down to how any brand can take said technology, and manufacture it more efficiently.

Partly, yes. But I think it mostly boils down to how far each brand is willing to go to reduce its costs. Some manufacturers may be more cynical than others and may find a certain percentage of failures perfectly acceptable, particularly if they occur after the warranty has expired (or if the car is so overly expensive to begin with that it covers any extra cost that might be caused by a failure within the warranty period).

You said you expect better engine reliability when paying for a premium vehicle. I pointed out that's a logical fallacy, with the example of BMW, and you with the Porsche IMS bearing.

I don't think it's a logical falacy. I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation. If BMW and Porsche aren't good enough to live up to it, that's a different story.

 

[KingKona]

I don't think it's a logical falacy. I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation. Now, if BMW and Porsche are charging too much for some badly designed or built engines, that's a different story. It doesn't mean that our expectation is wrong, it just means that BMW and Porsche aren't good enough to live up to it.

Logical Fallacy. Yes, the expectation is wrong, and reality just is. You can believe the expectation is reasonable, but if reality doesn't meet the expectation, then the expectation is wrong.

Those brands that people pay outrageous premiums for, often times have very serious issues, including engines. In fact I've noticed they're more likely to have serious issues. Much more in some circumstances such as Lamborghini, Bentley, and other really high-end vehicles. They're incredibly un-reliable.

What premium you pay for a car literally means nothing as far as reliability. The most reliable cars on the road are Toyotas, and no premium is paid for them.

 

[1958cyclist]

Logical Fallacy. Yes, the expectation is wrong, and reality just is. You can believe the expectation is reasonable, but if reality doesn't meet the expectation, then the expectation is wrong.

Those brands that people pay outrageous premiums for, often times have very serious issues, including engines. In fact I've noticed they're more likely to have serious issues. Much more in some circumstances such as Lamborghini, Bentley, and other really high-end vehicles. They're incredibly un-reliable.

What premium you pay for a car literally means nothing as far as reliability. The most reliable cars on the road are Toyotas, and no premium is paid for them.

I couldn't agree more...it comes down to how a manufacturer has positioned itself and it's products in the market place. That relationship has little bearing on the integrity or reliability of the products they produce. Ford's mission has always been furnishing the most to the most, nameplates like Lamborghini have been about furnishing the most to the few. I would make the argument though, that improved product experience and reliability have been impact far more with the first model than with the second.

 

[Balr14]

So we take a thread that is asking for a Mustang GT study that does not exist, nor will it, and turn it into a BMW/Porsche pissing match. Man, I love this forum.

There's a lot more meat on that bone. Mustang engine issues are pretty boring... damn few, cheap and easy to fix.

Sponsored