Alignment Questions

[Zissou]

I have a bunch of suspension parts in my garage going on soon and will be getting an alignment right about the same time. For a non-drag, non-tracked, just back roads corner carver, kind of daily driver (3k-4k miles per year, super short commute / multiple vehicles) which specs should be done?

The parts that are about to go on (if it even matters) are:
FRPP Street Handling Kit
BMR camber bolts
BMR CB005 cradle lock out
BMR 4 point brace (g-trac)

Then when the weather warms up I have a set of summer tires going on a new set of wheels, so is that going to affect alignment? They are substantially wider than the OEMs, 285/35r19's on 19x10 at all 4 corners.

Should I have this shop mount the tires on the new wheels, put them on the car & do the alignment, then take them off to put the all seasons back on for the winter? Or is that unnecessary?

I have BMR's from another thread, which from the title of it sounds like what I want.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/at...handling-alignment-specifications-pdf.368125/


Are alignment specs something that could be stickied in this subforum?

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[Nagare]

The new wheels won't affect the alignment necessarily, but it will affect the handling and you'll probably want a new alignment to fully take advantage of them. I would do separate alignments for winter and summer setups.

As far as specs being stickied, I think it would be helpful to have some different goal specs up there listed along with the use case, but that varies per person and their preferences too.

 

[Zissou]

The new wheels won't affect the alignment necessarily, but it will affect the handling and you'll probably want a new alignment to fully take advantage of them. I would do separate alignments for winter and summer setups.

As far as specs being stickied, I think it would be helpful to have some different goal specs up there listed along with the use case, but that varies per person and their preferences too.

For sure, like if there was a starter recommendation for alignment for street/daily drivers, autocross, road course, drag, etc

 

[Norm Peterson]

For sure, like if there was a starter recommendation for alignment for street/daily drivers, autocross, road course, drag, etc

The thing is, different people will tell you different numbers for the same stated activity. Some sources may subdivide one or more of those activities even further, such as front camber for drag racing - with skinnies vs normal width or wider street tires.

I'm not even sure we could get a consensus on whether rear camber should be further negative than front camber in street driving or less negative.


Norm

 

[Zissou]

The thing is, different people will tell you different numbers for the same stated activity. Some sources may subdivide one or more of those activities even further, such as front camber for drag racing - with skinnies vs normal width or wider street tires.

I'm not even sure we could get a consensus on whether rear camber should be further negative than front camber in street driving or less negative.


Norm

What's your take on the matter Norm? What are the pros/cons of greater negative camber in the rear, relative to the front?

 

[Norm Peterson]

What's your take on the matter Norm? What are the pros/cons of greater negative camber in the rear, relative to the front?

With rear camber more negative than front camber, handling tends to be more understeerish. It's the 'safe' approach for the average Mustang buyer/driver, which is why Ford's preferred camber settings are what they are. But it can make the handling less responsive with a slightly dull or heavy-feeling, definitely what you don't want if you're going to autocross the car and probably not for tracking it once you've got much seat time at that activity. I think BmacIL has posted his suggestions, but I don't offhand remember where.


Norm

 

[Grintch]

Lowering the car makes the camber curve worse. So you need to increase static camber.

For a pure street setup (what fun is that?) I would go some thing like - 1.75 degrees. And stick with the stock toe numbers.

This basicly splits the stock PP and Track Pack rear number, while increasing the front where it needs it most.

For reference - Ford values (2015):
GT PP - 1 F/-1.5 R camber 0 F / 0.23 in R toe
Track Pack - 1.6 / - 2 & 0 /0.23
GT350 - 1 / - 0.75 & 0.1 out/ 0.3 in

Interesting that GT350 has generally more conservative than even a stock PP.

Be interesting to see if these numbers have evolved for the PP1, PP2, and GT350.

PS - this is NOT enough camber for track or heavy autocross use.

PPS - the above toes are in degress, not inches.

 

[toplesstripcruiser]

The new wheels won't affect the alignment necessarily, but it will affect the handling and you'll probably want a new alignment to fully take advantage of them. I would do separate alignments for winter and summer setups.

As far as specs being stickied, I think it would be helpful to have some different goal specs up there listed along with the use case, but that varies per person and their preferences too.

I would think that would be a waste of money though. You would be getting an alignment done twice a year.

 

[Norm Peterson]

For a street performance kit and max summer performance tires or lower, you probably wouldn't need or even want settings appropriate for autocross-special 200TW tires like Bridgestone RE-71R's or BFG's Rival S. If you aren't autocrossing or tracking with enough seriousness to need front toe-out, you'd be better off with a small amount of front toe-in year round. Front tires can live reasonably well with -2° camber with a tiny amount of toe-in if your driving averages out to being enthusiastic enough to take advantage of that much. Rear tires want toe-in, period.

Basically, I don't see anybody in the situation described by OP having much need to swap alignment settings when they make seasonal tire swaps.


Norm

 

[Cardude99]

For a street performance kit and max summer performance tires or lower, you probably wouldn't need or even want settings appropriate for autocross-special 200TW tires like Bridgestone RE-71R's or BFG's Rival S. If you aren't autocrossing or tracking with enough seriousness to need front toe-out, you'd be better off with a small amount of front toe-in year round. Front tires can live reasonably well with -2° camber with a tiny amount of toe-in if your driving averages out to being enthusiastic enough to take advantage of that much. Rear tires want toe-in, period.

Basically, I don't see anybody in the situation described by OP having much need to swap alignment settings when they make seasonal tire swaps.


Norm

I agree. Just did my first rotation on my Continentals that I got back in June. 5k miles and the fronts looked new. I run -2 up front with a tiny bit of toe as you described. Handling is superb with no negatives that I can see.

Now my rears showed some wear but that is due to how I drive the car. Not the alignment settings. All wear is even across-the-board

 

[BmacIL]

Interesting that GT350 has generally more conservative than even a stock PP.

The GT350 has a better camber curve at stock ride height than a normal GT because of its control arms.

 

[Nagare]

I would think that would be a waste of money though. You would be getting an alignment done twice a year.

All depends on what you want. Good alignment for summer and winter are different. If you wanted to save the most money, you'd get a decent alignment on one set of all seasons and be done.

 

[Zissou]

For a street performance kit and max summer performance tires or lower, you probably wouldn't need or even want settings appropriate for autocross-special 200TW tires like Bridgestone RE-71R's or BFG's Rival S. If you aren't autocrossing or tracking with enough seriousness to need front toe-out, you'd be better off with a small amount of front toe-in year round. Front tires can live reasonably well with -2° camber with a tiny amount of toe-in if your driving averages out to being enthusiastic enough to take advantage of that much. Rear tires want toe-in, period.

Basically, I don't see anybody in the situation described by OP having much need to swap alignment settings when they make seasonal tire swaps.


Norm

Right, for me this won't need an extreme set up. At most it's going to be 1 or 2 autocrosses, if I sell my S2000. So I would shy away from any toe-out certainly.

Speaking of tires, the summer ones I have are Cooper Zeon RS3-S, a 300TW tire. So they're not extreme, but should be able to handle a little bit of everything from wet weather to back roads carving.

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