Advancetrac issue

Discussion in 'Road Course, Track, Autocross, HPDE' started by o-man, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. OP
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    o-man

    o-man Well-Known Member

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    Bringing this back. STILL burning through rear pads. In two track weekends I've been through four sets of rear pads. Did try unplugging the dyno plug this weekend; no difference. This is so frustrating!!
     
  2. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    What pads and tires are you running? Traction control/ advancetrack on or off?
     
  3. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    FYI Oscar's car has the standard GT brakes and limited slip. I think he has wider wheels and a "less restrictive" exhaust and maybe lower/stiffer springs which might change braking weight distribution.

    Note that is has been HOT in NC this year.

    Oscar - FYI those tiny rear brakes may be the real reason even with TC/Advance trac off and the dyno plug in place with brake proportioning working fine. Especially if the wider wheels restrict air flow.

    Even though the rear brakes are the same size as the GT PP rear brakes it wouldn't surprise me if brake proportioning calibration is more rear biased with yours based on smaller front brakes and less sticky oem tires resulting in less weight transfer under braking. Or maybe the pad compound is different for the GT compared to the GT PP. (I haven't checked).
     
  4. PoppinJ

    PoppinJ Well-Known Member

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    I sometimes overheat the rear Powerstop track day pads. They will start to crack and completely delaminate from the backing plate so I've really gotta watch them. Try a higher temp pad perhaps. I've heard over and over that the rear brakes do almost nothing on our platform but in my experience those rears are getting used quite a bit. Some sort of cooling would prob do wonders. I run Steeda 2 piece directionally vented rotors too. I run with most of the time with everything disabled.
     
  5. OP
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    o-man

    o-man Well-Known Member

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    G-loc R12 front/wearever gold and platinum. Powerstop Z23? Not going to run anything High dollar until I get this figured out. Tires are Federal 595-RS-Pro 275-35/18. Yes, advancetrac off.
     
  6. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that if pads get too hot for the compound wear increases dramatically. Therefore the cheap Wearever rear pads may make the tendency for faster rear pad wear even worse especially compared to the G-loc R12 fronts.

    Speaking of rear pads what is the best tool for quickly and easily screwing the rear pistons back into their bores? I've used the universal "cubes" for "not in a hurry" rear pad changes and they suck.
     
  7. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    We'll that's an odd rear pad to use.
     
  8. strengthrehab

    strengthrehab Well-Known Member

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    My rear pads last so long. I've never worn down a set. The only time I've changed is when upgrading compounds.

    Maybe I'm not driving fast enough.
     
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  9. OP
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    o-man

    o-man Well-Known Member

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  10. JohnD

    JohnD Legend in his own mind

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  11. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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  12. BillyJRacing

    BillyJRacing Well-Known Member

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    I've tracked more Mustangs than I can count, and never had advancetrac reenable itself.

    If you toggle and hold the switch for 8 seconds and get the message "AdvanceTrac OFF" and then drive the car without changing the mode again, turning the car off, or bumping the stability switch again, it should not turn back on.
     
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  13. OP
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    o-man

    o-man Well-Known Member

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    Well that’s exactly what I do. Pulling fuse may be next
     
  14. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    #29 DickR, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
    According to Ford Engineering there are a couple of extreme driving situations which might by design turn Advance Track back on including EPAS "loss of center" and "you are clearly trying to kill the car and/or yourself". Obviously since neither of these happen with professional drivers such as Billy Johnson the design normally isn't overly sensitive.

    Otherwise based on some wording in the FSM my "theory" is that what is actually happening is that there is some sort of sensor and/or communication intermittent "failure/problem" which first disables TC/Advance track and then when it "self heals" reenables TC/Advance Track which by design puts the system into "normal" mode just like it does at each engine start.

    FYI the only time my 18 turned Advance Track back on was at one autocross over a year ago on runs 2-4 of a 4 run event and then only maybe 10 seconds after the finish during a long slow "return drive" to the grid. My 15 did it several times at an autocross school when the car was new but at least one of those times I had "rushed" the "start the engine and turn off Advance Track" process and may not have let the system fully boot before turning off Advance Track. Since I'm a relatively tame driver (rarely spin or even get the car loose) it may be relevant to know that even when I or much faster drivers have spun my either my 15 or my 18 or gotten VERY loose Advance Track has not come back on.

    I have had a couple of times when the warning message turned out to be the "parking brake" warning due to the handle not being fully stowed and/or being bumped during the run. AFAIK this does not trigger an Advance Track error.

    EDIT TO CLARIFY: The following is cut and paste from the FSM (factory service manual).

    Service AdvanceTrack® Warning

    The service AdvanceTrac® warning chime warns the ABS module has detected a fault condition in the stability-traction control system. If a fault condition exists in the stability-traction control system, the ABS module sends the IPC the stability-traction control chime request to display the service AdvanceTrac® message in the message center and to sound 3 0.5-second chime tones through the front speakers.

    The IPC receives the stability-traction control chime request from the GWM over the HS-CAN3 .

    The GWM receives the stability-traction control chime request from the ABS module over the HS-CAN2 .

    When a chime request is received, the IPC sends the IPC chime request message to the ACM and the DSP module over the HS-CAN2 to sound the chime.

    Anti-Lock Braking

    The ABS module continuously monitors brake pedal input, longitudinal vehicle motion and the rotational speed of each wheel. The ABS module receives the brake pedal input from the PCM and the longitudinal acceleration sensor information from the RCM . The PCM sends the brake pedal input message to the GWM over the HS-CAN1 , the GWM relays the message to the ABS module over the HS-CAN2 . The RCM sends the longitudinal acceleration sensor message directly to the ABS module over the HS-CAN2 . Wheel speed information is received by the ABS module using 4 wheel speed sensors. When the ABS module detects an impending wheel lock during a braking event, the ABS module modulates brake pressure to the appropriate brake caliper by opening and closing the appropriate solenoid valves inside the HCU while the hydraulic pump motor is activated. Once the affected wheel returns to the desired speed, the ABS module returns the solenoid valves in the HCU to their normal position and deactivates the hydraulic pump motor.

    When the ABS module is initialized (ignition ON), a preliminary electrical check of the wheel speed and brake booster vacuum sensors is carried out, and the hydraulic pump motor is activated for approximately one-half second. During this time, a buzzing or humming noise may be heard and a vibration may be felt in the brake pedal, this is a normal condition. During the module initialized self-test, the pump motor check is carried out at approximately 10 km/h (6.2 mph). Any malfunction detected in the system causes the ABS module to set a DTC , disable the ABS function and send a message to the IPC to illuminate the ABS warning indicator. The base hydraulic power assist braking system functions normally.

    Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)

    On initial application of the brake pedal, full pressure is applied to the rear brakes. The ABS module then uses wheel speed sensor inputs to evaluate rear wheel slip. Once the rear wheel slip exceeds a predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to close the appropriate isolation valves to hold the rear brake pressure constant while allowing the front brake pressure to build. This creates a balanced braking condition between the front and rear wheels. If the rear wheel slip continues and exceeds a second predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to open the dump valves to decrease the rear brake pressure and allow the rear wheels to recover. A slight bump sensation may be felt in the brake pedal when EBD is active.

    If the ABS is disabled due to a DTC being present in the ABS module, EBD continues to function unless the DTC is for wheel speed sensors or the HCU . When EBD is disabled, the ABS warning indicator, the red brake warning indicator and stability-traction control indicator (sliding car icon) illuminate.

    AdvanceTrac

    The AdvanceTrac feature is comprised of the traction control and ESC features.

    Traction Control

    The ABS module continuously monitors and compares the rotational speed of the drive wheels in relation to the non-driven wheels. When the drive wheels begin to spin faster than the non-driven wheels, the ABS module modulates brake pressure to the appropriate brake caliper(s) by opening and closing the appropriate solenoid valves inside the HCU while the hydraulic pump motor is activated. At the same time, the ABS module calculates how much engine torque reduction is required to eliminate the wheel slip and sends this torque reduction message along with a traction event message to the GWM over the HS-CAN2 . The GWM sends the engine torque reduction message to the PCM over the HS-CAN1 and the traction event message to the IPC over the HS-CAN3 . When the PCM receives the torque reduction message, it adjusts engine timing and decreases fuel injector pulses to reduce the engine torque to the requested level. When the IPC receives the traction event message it flashes the stability-traction control indicator (sliding car icon). Once the driven wheel speed returns to the desired speed, the ABS module returns the solenoid valves in the HCU to their normal position, deactivates the hydraulic pump motor and stops sending the traction event and torque reduction messages. The PCM returns engine timing and fuel injectors to normal operation and the IPC extinguishes the stability-traction control indicator (sliding car icon).

    Traction control can be disabled through the use of the stability-traction control switch in the center of the instrument panel. This is independent of the ABS which cannot be disabled by the driver. When the driver disables traction control, the FCIM communicates traction control status to the GWM over the MS-CAN . The GWM sends the message to the ABS module over the HS-CAN2 . The ABS module takes no further action in regards to traction control until the driver activates the function or until the ignition is cycled from OFF to ON.

    Traction control is disabled if there is a wheel speed sensor or solenoid valve DTC present in the ABS module. Traction control is also disabled if there is a communication error between the ABS module and the GWM . When traction control is disabled, the ABS module sends a message to the GWM over the HS-CAN2 which relays the message to the IPC over the HS-CAN3 to illuminate the stability-traction control OFF indicator (sliding car OFF icon).

    Electronic Stability Control (ESC)

    The ABS module continuously monitors the vehicle motion relative to the intended course. This is done by using sensors to compare the steering wheel sensor messages and the yaw rate sensor messages with the actual vehicle motion. The ABS module receives the steering wheel sensor messages from the PSCM and the yaw rate sensor messages from the RCM , both messages are sent over the HS-CAN2 . If the ABS module determines from the inputs the vehicle is unable to travel in the intended direction, it modulates the brake pressure to the appropriate brake caliper(s) by opening and closing the appropriate solenoid valves inside the HCU while the hydraulic pump motor is activated. At the same time the ABS module calculates how much engine torque reduction is required to reduce vehicle speed to help stabilize the vehicle and sends this torque reduction message, along with an ESC event message, to the GWM over the HS-CAN2 . The GWM sends the torque reduction message to the PCM over the HS-CAN1 and the ESC event message to the IPC over the HS-CAN3 . When the PCM receives the torque reduction message, it adjusts engine timing and decreases fuel injector pulses to reduce the engine torque to the requested level. When the IPC receives this message, it flashes the stability-traction control indicator (sliding car icon). Once the vehicle instability has been corrected, the ABS module returns the solenoid valves in the HCU to their normal position, deactivates the hydraulic pump motor and stops sending the traction event and torque reduction messages. The PCM returns engine timing and fuel injectors to normal operation and the IPC extinguishes the stability-traction control indicator (sliding car icon).

    ESC does not operate with the transmission in REVERSE. ESC is disabled if there is a wheel speed sensor, RCM stability sensor or steering angle sensor DTC present in the ABS module. ESC is also disabled if there is a communication error between the ABS module and the PSCM or the ABS module and the RCM . When ESC is disabled, the ABS module sends a message to the GWM over the HS-CAN2 which relays the message to the IPC over the HS-CAN3 to illuminate the stability-traction control OFF indicator (sliding car OFF icon).
     
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  15. Coyote Red

    Coyote Red Well-Known Member

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    Go Billy J. , Dude, all that technical info in your head or derived from text read? Lol! Nice post regardless, peace out. tn_20191003_094504.jpg
     
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