350R preferred over the CFTP??

[DrumReaper]

Soon enough Fred...... I'll let you know.

Ummmmmm........... that statement pertained to “Billy”

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[JAJ]

We don't really know what the changed front knuckle on the 2020 GT350R/GT500 was supposed to do. There was some notion that it reduced tramlining, but I'm not hearing that was actually achieved. From looking at the Owner's supplements for the 2020 GT500 and GT350R and comparing the alignment settings to the 2019 R, it's pretty clear that the new knuckle added about a degree of caster to the front alignment. Maybe that's all it was ever intended to do.

As for tramlining, I have a GT350 with R suspension components installed. What I've experienced is that tramlining is very sensitive to alignment, particularly at the rear. And, yes, the rear tramlines.

After driving my car around a bit to settle the suspension, when I put it on the leveling pads and string it, it's within 0.1 degree of the GT350 owner's supplement track settings for the 2020 GT350R. Thing is, even with brand new MPSC2's there's minimal tramlining. It's still there but it's nothing like it was before I redid the alignment last spring.

 

[Tomster]

but I’d certainly like to hear that side from the man who has tracked both cars....

Ummmmmm........... that statement pertained to “Billy”

Oh, you said the man who tracked both cars......

I think there is a reason Billy hasn't stopped back. One thing I've noticed about him is that he picks the content, and this particular content is just a bicker-fest dead end on which car is better. There is no "one" answer. Each is different and has its own strengths and weaknesses.

If you want Billys opinion, he already told me. The CFTP is exponentially better on the track than the GT350R. Those were his words. In very short order I will be passing along my impressions between the two shortly.

Again, I have no dog in the fight. Im a proud owner of both and enjoy each one for what they are.

 

[stanglife]

Oh, you said the man who tracked both cars......

I think there is a reason Billy hasn't stopped back. One thing I've noticed about him is that he picks the content, and this particular content is just a bicker-fest dead end on which car is better. There is no "one" answer. Each is different and has its own strengths and weaknesses.

If you want Billys opinion, he already told me. The CFTP is exponentially better on the track than the GT350R. Those were his words. In very short order I will be passing along my impressions between the two shortly.

Again, I have no dog in the fight. Im a proud owner of both and enjoy each one for what they are.

You know I don’t pull any punches even with you my friend . I’m my mind - I will replace the word better with faster - which I have no doubt of. Better, is subjective - I know that for you and some others faster = better. Clear as mud?

 

[DrumReaper]

Oh, you said the man who tracked both cars......

I think there is a reason Billy hasn't stopped back. One thing I've noticed about him is that he picks the content, and this particular content is just a bicker-fest dead end on which car is better. There is no "one" answer. Each is different and has its own strengths and weaknesses.

If you want Billys opinion, he already told me. The CFTP is exponentially better on the track than the GT350R. Those were his words. In very short order I will be passing along my impressions between the two shortly.

Again, I have no dog in the fight. Im a proud owner of both and enjoy each one for what they are.

Yeah, the first statement pertained to you... as an R and CFTP owner... the second applied to Billy since he has tracked both the 2020 R and the CFTP.

No one is asking of Billy to declare which is “better”... that was your insertion. The assessment I was hoping to hear from the guy who helped develop both cars is how his feelings were regarding the new knuckle on the 2020 R. If he doesn’t care to comment on that, it’s no biggie... I won’t lose sleep.... it would just be cool to get his opinion.

As @stanglife said, we all know which is faster........ we knew that when the car came out. “Better” is relative... and IMHO, pushing/pulling paddles or just taking my foot on/off the gas and hitting the brake is just not as thrilling... so, not better to me.

 

[BillyJRacing]

I'm sorry for the late response but I do have to work once and a while too...

Here's a pretty good read on steering geometry:

http://white-smoke.wikifoundry.com/page/Steering+Geometry

Most of those have been changed in the GT500's knuckle to improve steering feel, response, and grip. Therefore, when installed on the 2020 R, the 500 knuckle really improves the 2020Rs driving experience in the way the car steers and handles. Yes tramlining is reduced but it's the subjective feel and objective grip improvement that makes the 2020R the fastest and best driving GT350.

Due to the increased weight and wider front tire (despite being numerically identical), the GT500 has challenges that inherently increase tramlining so the improved knuckle was really needed otherwise the there wouldn't be enough front grip to make the GT500 be capable of what it does on track, the steering would not be as communicative and predictable with all that extra weight on the front, and the tramlining would be pretty bad. But when this knuckle is on a GT350...(2020 R) it is a very nice improvement.

 

[Epiphany]

To be clear, the '20R knuckle and the '20 GT500 knuckle are similar but not the same part. The caliper ears on the R knuckle are milled down to account for the smaller rotor/caliper combination. Both benefit from a number of geometry changes over the '15-'20 GT350 and '15-'19 GT350R knuckles (which are the same as the non-R) though.

 

[stanglife]

Makes cents! That's for you @Epiphany

 

[DrumReaper]

I'm sorry for the late response but I do have to work once and a while too...

Here's a pretty good read on steering geometry:

http://white-smoke.wikifoundry.com/page/Steering+Geometry

Most of those have been changed in the GT500's knuckle to improve steering feel, response, and grip. Therefore, when installed on the 2020 R, the 500 knuckle really improves the 2020Rs driving experience in the way the car steers and handles. Yes tramlining is reduced but it's the subjective feel and objective grip improvement that makes the 2020R the fastest and best driving GT350.

Due to the increased weight and wider front tire (despite being numerically identical), the GT500 has challenges that inherently increase tramlining so the improved knuckle was really needed otherwise the there wouldn't be enough front grip to make the GT500 be capable of what it does on track, the steering would not be as communicative and predictable with all that extra weight on the front, and the tramlining would be pretty bad. But when this knuckle is on a GT350...(2020 R) it is a very nice improvement.

Thank you kindly. Now back to work... lol

 

[PP0001]

I'm sorry for the late response but I do have to work once and a while too...

Here's a pretty good read on steering geometry:

http://white-smoke.wikifoundry.com/page/Steering+Geometry

Most of those have been changed in the GT500's knuckle to improve steering feel, response, and grip. Therefore, when installed on the 2020 R, the 500 knuckle really improves the 2020Rs driving experience in the way the car steers and handles. Yes tramlining is reduced but it's the subjective feel and objective grip improvement that makes the 2020R the fastest and best driving GT350.

Due to the increased weight and wider front tire (despite being numerically identical), the GT500 has challenges that inherently increase tramlining so the improved knuckle was really needed otherwise the there wouldn't be enough front grip to make the GT500 be capable of what it does on track, the steering would not be as communicative and predictable with all that extra weight on the front, and the tramlining would be pretty bad. But when this knuckle is on a GT350...(2020 R) it is a very nice improvement.

After driving my 2020 R to my home from the Ford dealership in Glendale (~75 miles away) some 5 months ago I immediately felt an improvement in steering feel and handling along with less tramlining compared to my 2018 R at least that is what I had thought at the time.

As soon as I got home with my new ride I decided to take my 2018 R out for a spirited drive as I wanted to make sure that the steering, suspension and tramlining improvements that I seemed to feel in the 2020 R were just not all in my head therefore wanted to hopefully confirm my suspicions with a back to back driving comparison.

The very first significant difference when starting up and backing out the 2018 R was the substantial difference in clutch spring feel compared to the 2020 model which is like day and night as I had forgotten how light the clutch spring feel in the 2018 was especially compared to the 2020 model.

After just a few miles of spirited driving with my 2018 R in the desert backroads it was evident that my thoughts and suspicions with respect to improved steering, handling and less tramlining for the 2020 R were confirmed at least that was my impression based on being an old amateur racing enthusiast that started auto crossing some ~40 years ago.

Thanks again for confirming that the driving experience and suspicions for my new GT350R were indeed correct and that the 2020 R is the fastest and best driving GT350 for the 6 model years that these outstanding Pony Cars were produced!

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