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sakman84

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My wild guess is corporate gave them some scraps in terms of budget and told them to make an "all new" car - which most of the time mean new tail lights and maybe a fender, here it's LCDs and remote rev (didn't know underaged people bought these cars). It's low cost marketing effort, mechanically it's very much the same car or at least nothing that Ford said yesterday suggests otherwise.
This is a great question. What happened with all that talk about the next Gen being on the larger CD6 platform? They originally planned the next gen to have an AWD drive model with ICE and electric. This was abandoned some where along the way. I wonder what kind of impact this decision had for the rest of the project. The story of the S650 seems to be peculiar given the fact the end product is more refresh than new generation, and pivotal goals were shifted during the process. If I remember correctly the release date changed several times.
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davtpa

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budget cuts and money going into the electric mustang are my thoughts (no I will not call it a mach) while at the same time thinking of gobbling up additional sales from Chevy and Dodge fans who have no new alternative now for an ICE platform. It seems like they are trying to cast a wide net and in turn are simply hedging their bets for this last hurrah while the electric platform keeps the feds off of their backs. It will work for some but if Iā€™m spending that kind of money Iā€™m passing and leasing a bmw.
 

Dreadomir

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I really don't understand the complaints about obvious changes that were coming to the interior. Why would they keep a low res tiny screen in a modern car? The lack of a large Hi-Res screen and tech is severely lacking in the latest S550. Paying $60k(Mach 1) or $120k for a GT500 with the current interior is a slap in the face. Do most of you want the same interior to continue or for them to remove all screens? I personally love the Dark Horse and can't wait to upgrade.
That's awesome the S650 met your expectations. Personally, the car overall fell short primarily in design execution. The only exception is the Dark Horse front end which made the best use of the new design language, rear end is still not a good look though. The interior isn't terrible, but it does feel forced and lazy. All they really did was change the dash layout, and slapped two iPads in your face. There is no flow, it's messy and just doesn't work out in the interior. The rest of the interior is pretty similar to the outgoing S550, which makes the laziness even more apparent. Only things they did well tech wise was adding a wireless charger, and top mounted usb ports. Ford needs to go back to the drawing board, and try to house in the dash and infotainment screen better in a more coherent package. Paying $60k for a Mach 1 is cheap compared to what a fully loaded Dark Horse will cost. The added tech, and other customization options are gonna bring it up to $90k+ if you add those carbon wheels.
 
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DK GTCS

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I think the Dark Horse is the best of the bunch so far of the new models, but it doesn't thrill me like the Mach 1 which I liked from the time I saw renderings before reveal. To me, the 21-22 Mach 1 is the highwater mark of the S550 Mustangs aesthetically (GT350 is close). It's a beautiful car in a great host of colors and I am a big fan of stripes and accents so I like that on the Mach 1s as well. I would love to own one sometime down the road.
 

murick

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The lack of a large Hi-Res screen and tech is severely lacking in the latest S550.
I guess by sales, yes. By my instincts, no, not at all. I agree that the screen alone in the central display in current gen is not the best one, VW lowest models have better one (better res, colors, clarity, contrast, etc.), but that is all I would agree on with Ford.

When I saw the first touch screens in cars (maybe 15 years ago), I did not believe it would stick, because it did not have any advantage over the physical buttons and toggles. Yet it not only stuck on, but spread like a disease. Everyone had to have one.

I know why car manufacturers are putting it in, it looks cool, and they can be lazy with the ergonomics, because all the redesign needs is just a software update. And they can charge premium for "premium" features (or they could 15 years ago). Despite all the terrible user experience.

There is a difference between playing with a tablet on a couch and trying to hit some control icon on a screen half meter away, while driving with the other hand, on a road which is not perfectly flat or perfectly straight. Just "targeting" the control takes much more effort and what is worse also much more attention. Nothing to say about getting to those control icons first through the pages of other icons and stuff.

When I saw that Mustang had the physical buttons for controlling the brightness of the dash and the display I could not believe it, because any car I drove lately required me to go through several menus on touch display and then even slide the finger (or tap) to make the adjustments. I believe people who design this either do not drive the cars, or are crazy.

Now, someone can say, alright it might not be that good for controlling the car, but it could communicate far more things than few colored LEDs, or analogue gauges.

Sure, it can. But with any added level of detail comes an added level of concentration and effort required to extract that information. It is great that the car display can draw full 3D model of the drivetrain and contextually highlight or zoom onto parts you are setting up, but do you really expect anyone watching these "videos" while driving. When I am switching driving mode, I do not need hi-res engineering simulation telling me that the suspensions will get stiffer, or the steering more precise.

There is a direct relation between how much time (and mental processing) one needs to process a symbolic information. Complex symbols in complex layouts (like full screen menu with many controls/gauges) takes much more time than looking at one simple gauge or pushing one single button. And I am not mentioning even more useless animations.

Ok, if someone is buying Tesla then drives it on an autopilot, I believe he might just need (and want) a biggest screen possible to play with. Everything else will be boring.

On the other hand, if someone buys a car for having fun from driving it, he might just need as little distraction from non-driving activities as possible.

I am not against the new tech in general, I believe there are some very useful applications even for sports car, like 360Ā° camera for parking, HUD with vital info for driving, or all different "assistants" either for the security (e.g. stability control), or fun (rev. matching). Interestingly, nothing from those has been mentioned at the reveal.
 

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ChitownStang

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A lot of people myself included, do not like when the screen integration is done lazy style like in this case. The screen is literally sticking up out of the dash, its not integrated into the dash. That aesthetic is ugly, it brakes the flow of every car interior when it is implemented that way. The industry is pushing digital dashes and Infotainments hardcore, and I get it.

For people who want it, if it is not included it is a deal breaker, a lost sale. Not offering such tech is seen as behind the trend when compared to competitors. I think this feeling is more pronounced amongst the younger demographic who grew up with touch screens. What is interesting is manufacturers are catering to this demographic (from consumer data they claim) with all this tech, but at the same time prices are going sky high. I question if the demographic they are targeting can actually afford the product. This is an industry trend not a Ford specific problem.

I wonder what the profit margins are on these tech items, an how much to the cost of the car they add?

If you want a digital dash, there is a proper way to integrate it to have harmony with the rest of the interior. The other issue with touch screens is they are simply not suited for certain commands. The tactile response from physical controls are suited to certain commands, while other commands lend themselves to touch screening. It is a big mistake to force ALL the commands like climate control into the touchscreen. Some things need to be able to done as blind commands, simply by feel, you are supposed to be focused on the road after all. Fine grain adjustment should be done with a tactile physical control, climate control commands, radio volume. More contextual controls, or those less frequently used, or are the set it once type of control, can be don using a touch screen. Balance is important here, and forcing them all digital is a mistake. interesting points of discussion about this can be found in this Savageese video on In Car Entertainment.

Well said!
I just just donā€™t think it belongs in a sports car, itā€™s not sporty!
 

HoosierJTF

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That's awesome the S650 met your expectations. Personally, the car overall fell short primarily in design execution. The added tech, and other customization options are gonna bring it up to $90k+ if you add those carbon wheels.
Honestly it met what I expected after seeing the camo cars and leaks. I would have been ok with an all electric real mustang and a top to bottom redesign but that will be for the next gen. Imagine the backlash if Ford went the route of Dodge.

This will be the last primarily ICE Mustang and to me they took a solid platform and refreshed it with modern tech and what they believe is an evolution. The Fox platform lasted from 79-04 which was definitely lazy. We have just been spoiled with the S197 to S550.

I feel most people bashing the interior should just give it a chance until they actually sit in the car. From my perspective I don't love everything about it but I'm satisfied and look forward to seeing it in person.

As far as price, I'd expect the DH to be $2-3k more starting out and yes fully loaded with the carbon fiber wheels will push maybe $80k. Anything above that is GT500 territory and without a blower would be way overpriced.
 

HoosierJTF

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A lot of people myself included, do not like when the screen integration is done lazy style like in this case. The screen is literally sticking up out of the dash, its not integrated into the dash. That aesthetic is ugly, it brakes the flow of every car interior when it is implemented that way. The industry is pushing digital dashes and Infotainments hardcore, and I get it.

For people who want it, if it is not included it is a deal breaker, a lost sale. Not offering such tech is seen as behind the trend when compared to competitors. I think this feeling is more pronounced amongst the younger demographic who grew up with touch screens. What is interesting is manufacturers are catering to this demographic (from consumer data they claim) with all this tech, but at the same time prices are going sky high. I question if the demographic they are targeting can actually afford the product. This is an industry trend not a Ford specific problem.

I wonder what the profit margins are on these tech items, an how much to the cost of the car they add?

If you want a digital dash, there is a proper way to integrate it to have harmony with the rest of the interior. The other issue with touch screens is they are simply not suited for certain commands. The tactile response from physical controls are suited to certain commands, while other commands lend themselves to touch screening. It is a big mistake to force ALL the commands like climate control into the touchscreen. Some things need to be able to done as blind commands, simply by feel, you are supposed to be focused on the road after all. Fine grain adjustment should be done with a tactile physical control, climate control commands, radio volume. More contextual controls, or those less frequently used, or are the set it once type of control, can be don using a touch screen. Balance is important here, and forcing them all digital is a mistake. interesting points of discussion about this can be found in this Savageese video on In Car Entertainment.

I'm not old and I'm not young(41) so I like some of both worlds. I am a fan of Hi-Res touch screens and feel any car made today needs to have them as an option. No company wants to look dated and it can impact sales. I recently drove a Mach-E and loved the screen. I do get your point on simple actions needing to stay simple. They did leave a volume knob and I'm sure there will be a good amount of steering wheel controls. As far as the climate control I only adjust it once or twice during a normal drive so I don't see that being much of an issue for myself.
 

Dfeeds

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There's a different way of looking at the new mustang. For everyone looking to tune, the gen 4 changes could prove fruitful if staying NA is appealing. We don't have any real specs but, from what we've seen, it's basically just a new (maybe not?) intake manifold with the dual throttle bodies, and possibly a redesigned exhaust manifold. If that's it, then it wouldn't be hard or even overly expensive to retrofit a gen 3 coyote. The difficult part, especially for pioneers, would be ironing out the custom tune. The predator rods for the DH coyote (that's all they mentioned, right?) are nice but it's not like the gen 3 internals are anything to sneeze at.

For anyone who's patient, a couple years down the line could yield even more innovative changes for us to leach onto, with minimal work required.

We also don't know much else about the gen 4. So for all we know, it's coming with cylinder deactivation, making it even more appealing to just swap over a gen 4 intake without upgrading platforms. Subjectively speaking, all the benefits without any of the downsides.

but hey, remote engine revs. So important in performance car. I swear, Ford sometimes caters to absolutely worst part of Mustang "community". WTF.
You're talking about the same people that thought it was a good idea to add a sound tube from the air intake to the cabin. We can't really be surprised lol.
 

Zelek

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The major deal breaker for me is the lack of aftermarket tuning and probably parts too. You'll be able to get a Whipple or anything that partners with Ford Performance but I see these aftermarket companies struggling only selling suspension mods.

The only thing I'd wait on is a Shelby and that's a huge maybe based on budget cuts and layoffs. I think we got the last of the aftermarket tuneable cars for now.

I don't hate the S650 but I don't love it either. I just accept it for what it is and keeping the V8 alive. With no more competition, I see Ford riding this out with cosmetic changes and if we are lucky we will see Shelby models before saying goodbye to the ICE and move to an all electric Mustang built in the same factory as the Explorer later.
 

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Jimmy Dean

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Stymee

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Well the engineer who designed it said this and I can only assume it will get better pistons too?

ā€œThe engine will get connecting rods and other forged internals from the Shelby GT500ā€
 

IPOGT

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Letā€™s be honest. This is Fordā€™s last ICE Mustang and the technology presumably has no path forward. How much are they going to invest?
 

Schwerin

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When people start modding the DH, it will make more power than a GT350 without vibrating apart or oil consumption plus u get a forged bottem end with forged pistons

Boost Friendly, AKA 2012-13 BossšŸ˜œ

i bet with its CF wheel option and unique tires plus revised magna susp and better under pinnings it betters M1 lap times.

Weā€™ll see if Iā€™m right, still I LOVE the look of the M1ā€¦.Its Perfect to me and I would love to have one
No it wont. Locked PCM. No way to tune it until that's cracked (could take years) or a piggy pack system. Until then youre limited to FORD APPROVED tunes for your car. Say goodbye to mild boltons and E30 or e85 tunes for a good while.

Oh bought a Whipple system? thats nice, you can ONLY run the pulleys they sell not any others because you cant get a custom tune for it anymore. Lot less fun when EVERYONE is running the same 12.5PSI lol
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