2018 Performance Pack - A big step BACKWARDS

[Madlock]

The big difference between the two will be tires.

And the wheels that wear them. But if that were the case, why preclude Automatics? There's very likely more to the story.

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[airfuel]

You guys are ragging on the new car more than the guys on the Camaro forum!
Get over it and move on.

I still think we need a 2018 sub forum so you guys can live peaceful happy lives with your cars.
The Vert guys have a sub forum and the "special edition" guys, like the california specials have a sub forum and those cars are just tarted up mustangs.

The "18 is very much different (read better) than the current car so why not?

 

[SVT-DADDY]

It's funny how we bemoan the prices on these cars, but then go spend thousands in the aftermarket. Sadly most of us end up with an unrefined mess. ( I know because this is my 3rd Mustang and the only one I haven't ruined)

My guess is when this car starts getting gleaming reviews a lot of folks will ante up.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

You guys are ragging on the new car more than the guys on the Camaro forum!
Get over it and move on.

I still think we need a 2018 sub forum so you guys can live peaceful happy lives with your cars.
The Vert guys have a sub forum and the "special edition" guys, like the california specials have a sub forum and those cars are just tarted up mustangs.

The "18 is very much different (read better) than the current car so why not?

This!

 

[Kevin08]

You guys are ragging on the new car more than the guys on the Camaro forum!
Get over it and move on.

I still think we need a 2018 sub forum so you guys can live peaceful happy lives with your cars.
The Vert guys have a sub forum and the "special edition" guys, like the california specials have a sub forum and those cars are just tarted up mustangs.

The "18 is very much different (read better) than the current car so why not?

YOU'RE EITHER WITH US, OR AGAINST US!! ARGHH.

Yeah, I agree with the separate face-lift sub forum.

 

[Ebm]

.

nice try. The 350 is a separate halo model with more track focus. The ecoboost is a choice YOU make to accept less performance from the Mustang at a reduced cost.

If the GT350 can't deliver enough performance to allow the GT to be competetive with its closest rivals at a similar price point...it's time to put the 350 out to pasture.

I'm not even saying that Ford's philosophy is to hold the GT back to prop up the 350, but if it is it's a terrible strategy and it will cost them

Lulz? If Ford wanted to, they could have easily made the ecoboost 400 bhp. There is no nice try. It's the truth. It doesn't take a v8 to make horsepower. :doh:

Alas, everything is a trade off though. If they made an ecoboost with 400 bhp, it would cost more and steal sales away from the higher models. It's the same philosophy with the GT. People are complaining the car is more expensive. Well no shit it's more expensive. R&D isn't cheap, neither is horsepower. Either buy it or don't. Don't sit here and complain about the same thing over and over again.

 

[Cardude99]

Don't sit here and complain about the same thing over and over again.

not to be rude but isnt that the purpose of an online forum, a place where we can all come together and share our love and hate for a particular product?

i think bitching about something falls in line lol

 

[RocketGuy3]

No... the PR said the 18 base suspension was firmer than the plush riding 15-17. I believe folks are taking a pretty large leap from that wording to "base GT now handles as well with as much rigidity as the outgoing 2017 PP".

Huge assumptions are being tossed around like they are documented fact. No where has it been stated that the 18 base is now the 15-17 PP, and therefore the next jump to conclusions statement that the 18 PP surely is "much improved" is pure conjecture based on pure speculation.

Given that Ford likely has a hard ceiling of handling prowess set with the Halo GT350, and given that the 15-17 PP was a fairly decent package, there just isn't a lot of room left to slot a PP2 between a "greatly improved" PP and the GT350.

I don't believe the GT350 (especially non-R) is a hard limit at all for Ford... In fact I would expect a performance-optimized 2018 Mustang GT to be able to outperform a 2015/16 GT350 by many measures, at least in the corners, and especially if given equivalent tires. With an automatic, it already has comparable acceleration.

I don't think that makes the GT350 any significant amount less appealing to most potential buyers. That legendary FPC V8 and exhaust sound, not to mention probably the sexiest styling of any Mustang ever, remains in tact. Plus, a standard GT350 is no longer that much more expensive than a well equipped GT. And most people who buy regular GT350s aren't tracking them, anyways.

Also, I never said (or if I did, I misspoke) that the new PP is greatly improved. I just said that it has to be some amount of improvement based on what Ford has told us, and there's no reason to freak out and assume that it's $1K more for the exact same package. The fact that the list of improvements looks the same does not mean the package is the same.

 

[BmacIL]

I don't believe the GT350 (especially non-R) is a hard limit at all for Ford... In fact I would expect a performance-optimized 2018 Mustang GT to be able to outperform a 2015/16 GT350 by many measures, at least in the corners, and especially if given equivalent tires. With an automatic, it already has comparable acceleration.

I don't think that makes the GT350 any significant amount less appealing to most potential buyers. That legendary FPC V8 and exhaust sound, not to mention probably the sexiest styling of any Mustang ever, remains in tact. Plus, a standard GT350 is no longer that much more expensive than a well equipped GT. And most people who buy regular GT350s aren't tracking them, anyways.

Also, I never said (or if I did, I misspoke) that the new PP is greatly improved. I just said that it has to be some amount of improvement based on what Ford has told us, and there's no reason to freak out and assume that it's $1K more for the exact same package. The fact that the list of improvements looks the same does not mean the package is the same.

There's almost no way for the '18 GT PP to do that.

The grip level of the GT350 will be higher (295/305 MPSS vs. 255/275 MPS4S). The GT350 makes 66 more hp, which can be utilized fully on a race track. Even if the mag ride suspension is equal, you're not overcoming the first two.

The '18 GT PP will come roughly in between where the current GT PP and the GT350 are, which will put it right at the SS.

 

[Ebm]

.

not to be rude but isnt that the purpose of an online forum, a place where we can all come together and share our love and hate for a particular product?

i think bitching about something falls in line lol

We all have our reasons for being a part of forums. I, personally, use forums mostly for an informative purpose. To gain knowledge or read an article like a diy. Occasionally browse pictures.

The end of what I said is key. "over and over." It isn't somebody complaining or venting, it's the fact that some people on this forum beat a dead horse into oblivion.

 

[c-rizzle]

There's almost no way for the '18 GT PP to do that.

The grip level of the GT350 will be higher (295/305 MPSS vs. 255/275 MPS4S). The GT350 makes 66 more hp, which can be utilized fully on a race track. Even if the mag ride suspension is equal, you're not overcoming the first two.

The '18 GT PP will come roughly in between where the current GT PP and the GT350 are, which will put it right at the SS.

Actually give the 2018 GT PP the same tires and it will probably perform almost the same. It's 0-60 is already slightly better.

It has equivalent (probably better in most of RPM range) torque, and a 10-speed auto that shifts faster than any human, that will keep the GT pulling hard at ANY speed as it will be in the perfect RPM/power band range for the amount of throttle you're inputting.

Technically the GT350 still has the lighter weight 2-piece rotor which helps "lightness" and acceleration/braking, but if you put those on the GT PP along with the GT350 tires, I think the GT PP comes out a clear winner.

 

[BmacIL]

Actually give the 2018 GT PP the same tires and it will probably perform almost the same. It's 0-60 is already slightly better.

It has equivalent (probably better in most of RPM range) torque, and a 10-speed auto that shifts faster than any human, that will keep the GT pulling hard at ANY speed as it will be in the perfect RPM/power band range for the amount of throttle you're inputting.

Technically the GT350 still has the lighter weight 2-piece rotor which helps "lightness" and acceleration/braking, but if you put those on the GT PP along with the GT350 tires, I think the GT PP comes out a clear winner.

The GT350 has higher net torque in the RPM range you'd be in on the track (above 4000 rpm at all times).

With the same tires it'd be much closer, but it doesn't, so that's not a valid comparison. I can throw 18x11s with slicks on my car and go much faster than a GT350. Same with the brakes. Stock for stock, the '18 GT PP will not be faster than a GT350 around the track, which means it will not be up there with a SS 1LE.

This is not '18 GT PP bashing, it's keeping people realistic.

 

[5.oh]

2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE
Magna ride
recaro Seats
8 speed auto
$49,550

2018 Mustang GT Premium
Track Pack
Magna Ride
Recaro seats
10 speed auto
$49,770


Am i missing something? Otherwise these look to be priced pretty much the same

 

[BmacIL]

2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE
Magna ride
recaro Seats
8 speed auto
$49,550

2018 Mustang GT Premium
Track Pack
Magna Ride
Recaro seats
10 speed auto
$49,770


Am i missing something? Otherwise these look to be priced pretty much the same

You can get a 1SS 1LE for $44,400. Still has leather/alcantara recaros and most of the whiz-bang tech. Problem is: must go GT premium to get Recaros.

 

[my03mach1]

The GT350 has higher net torque in the RPM range you'd be in on the track (above 4000 rpm at all times).

With the same tires it'd be much closer, but it doesn't, so that's not a valid comparison. I can throw 18x11s with slicks on my car and go much faster than a GT350. Same with the brakes. Stock for stock, the '18 GT PP will not be faster than a GT350 around the track, which means it will not be up there with a SS 1LE.

This is not '18 GT PP bashing, it's keeping people realistic.

I wonder if Pilot Sport Cup 2's would close that gap to the 1LE? The Camaro has fairly aggressive tires. Though I'm just happy the PP finally has something more than those P Zeroes.

I almost feel like the whole point of the PP was to beat the normal Camaro, it comes with 275 summers standard.

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