2017 GT PP bang for buck slight lowering recommendations?

[Wile-E Coyote]

You're kind of a dick eh, roadway?

Listen to bmac.

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[Roadway 5.0]

You're kind of a dick eh, roadway?

Listen to bmac.

Ah yes, another crony. Blind obedience, to avoid public ridicule, is not my forte.

 

[Rebellion]

Driven a "few miles" and the ride is "fantastic." Invalid. I won't elaborate on his profile photo.
Let's be clear, Ford did the research. The dampers are OEM GT350 pieces and of course will pair well enough, considering the available options on the market, with the stiffer R springs. Bottom line: the FRPP track dampers are exceptionally engineered mono-tube units that have been extensively tested...by Ford. Months to figure this out? I lament this if it's true.

Well, back then in 2016 there wasn't all of this info around. We barely knew that the GT350 springs would fit, let alone finding dampers that would match, and how it'll behave as a system. There were calculations being done, assumptions made, and tradeoffs considered. Me being me, I wouldn't buy a set of springs without having the rates and drop being close to what we calculated. That's why I ended getting different fronts and rears.

I used the FRPP under the assumption that it would have the rates that were favorable, but @BmacIL has tried a number of different damper combinations each with it's own drawbacks...like I said mistakes were made and it's not about how things were engineered. I did some dumb things with the rear spring spacer and roll centers, which made the car understeer horribly...all of this is part of a trial and error process.

 

[Rebellion]

Lots of good things said here, though I cringe when I see LCA bearings being recommended. Sure, it's an awesome piece and gives feel and response. But it is right for the general street driver? I think not.

The LCA bearings does bring the true spring/damper rate into perspective...I would imagine the same to be for the bearings at the front. There are other benefits like the alignment and a reduction of unwanted toe in under certain conditions. Back then I wasn't interested in autocross or track, I believe the LCA is necessary to provide the true feel and response of any damper/spring (that's why I wish I had it first before doing springs/dampers).

 

[BmacIL]

Ah yes, another crony. Blind obedience, to avoid public ridicule, is not my forte.

It's not obedience man, it's about the facts. You're the only one bashing product or person.

You need to know the engineering behind the car, and then you need to do the research and testing in order to be able to talk with credibility about this stuff. I've personally helped over 30 people personally on this forum via PM/FB message/text and not a single one was anything other than happy. They ranged from DD street only car to track rat, to a mix in between. I've recommended Steeda parts, BMR parts, Vorshlag parts, J&M parts Ford Performance parts. It's always been about the right combo for the individual.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

Well, back then in 2016 there wasn't all of this info around. We barely knew that the GT350 springs would fit, let alone finding dampers that would match, and how it'll behave as a system. There were calculations being done, assumptions made, and tradeoffs considered. Me being me, I wouldn't buy a set of springs without having the rates and drop being close to what we calculated. That's why I ended getting different fronts and rears.

I used the FRPP under the assumption that it would have the rates that were favorable, but @BmacIL has tried a number of different damper combinations each with it's own drawbacks...like I said mistakes were made and it's not about how things were engineered. I did some dumb things with the rear spring spacer and roll centers, which made the car understeer horribly...all of this is part of a trial and error process.

Good points and well said. I didn't consider the newness of the S550 chassis; my apologies for the sharp and smug response.

The LCA bearings does bring the true spring/damper rate into perspective...I would imagine the same to be for the bearings at the front. There are other benefits like the alignment and a reduction of unwanted toe in under certain conditions. Back then I wasn't interested in autocross or track, I believe the LCA is necessary to provide the true feel and response of any damper/spring (that's why I wish I had it first before doing springs/dampers).

I agree that the bearing is a good thing for performance, feel, and handling, but the trade-offs (vibration / noise) just aren't something many will want. I think an asterix should always be included when the LCA bearing is recommended. This is the entire thesis of my argument in this thread.

 

[BmacIL]

Good points and well said. I didn't consider the newness of the S550 chassis; my apologies for the sharp and smug response.



I agree that the bearing is a good thing for performance, feel, and handling, but the trade-offs (vibration / noise) just aren't something many will want. I think an asterix should always be included when the LCA bearing is recommended. This is the entire thesis of my argument in this thread.

You're correct and why I don't typically suggest it for a street car.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

It's not obedience man, it's about the facts. You're the only one bashing product or person.

You need to know the engineering behind the car, and then you need to do the research and testing in order to be able to talk with credibility about this stuff. I've personally helped over 30 people personally on this forum via PM/FB message/text and not a single one was anything other than happy. They ranged from DD street only car to track rat, to a mix in between. I've recommended Steeda parts, BMR parts, Vorshlag parts, J&M parts Ford Performance parts. It's always been about the right combo for the individual.

I'm not bashing the product; there is 100% a time and place for 350R (or stiffer) springs when paired with FRPP Track dampers. I simply don't agree that they are a one-size-fit-all approach to the S550 and should be recommended to a forum member who stated he ruined his 550i BMW by installing aggressive springs. And I don't need to know engineering to know business; if the 350R springs and Track dampers are the all-encompassing divine choice then Ford would have installed this package in more of its Mustangs to increase sales and gain favorable attention from positive journalist reviews. But this isn't the case. Ford didn't put 350R springs in lesser models because average people would complain about the harshness or worse, not buy the car at all.

Here is one of the folks persuaded to buy stiff springs and now is terrified of pot holes in Long Island:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/more-suspension-issue.121311/

EDIT: out of curiosity, do you receive any commissions or payments for the parts you recommend/help sell?

 

[Radiation Joe]

I'm not bashing the product; there is 100% a time and place for 350R (or stiffer) springs when paired with FRPP Track dampers. I simply don't agree that they are a one-size-fit-all approach to the S550 and should be recommended to a forum member who stated he ruined his 550i BMW by installing aggressive springs. And I don't need to know engineering to know business; if the 350R springs and Track dampers are the all-encompassing divine choice then Ford would have installed this package in more of its Mustangs to increase sales and gain favorable attention from positive journalist reviews. But this isn't the case. Ford didn't put 350R springs in lesser models because average people would complain about the harshness or worse, not buy the car at all.

Here is one of the folks persuaded to buy stiff springs and now is terrified of pot holes in Long Island:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/more-suspension-issue.121311/

EDIT: out of curiosity, do you receive any commissions or payments for the parts you recommend/help sell?

These are some of worst examples you could have picked. Do you know anything about suspensions or major vendors? Anyone who complains that Dinan products ruined the ride of a BMW obviously did something else to his vehicle to cause the problem. But you apparently don't know anything about Dinan products or you would have known this. I have been driving an Ecoboost PP car with GT350R springs and FP track dampers for a week and just got back from a 400 mile round trip weekend. If anything, they aren't stiff enough for my tastes. The car actually rides better under most circumstances than it did with the PP suspension. Bmac has been helpful every time I've discussed my plans with him. Those plans did not include the GT350R springs until recently, but considering all of the advantages of not changing the ride height significantly convinced me that they were a very good choice. I am an engineer. I've been modifying cars longer than you have probably been alive. You probably would be better off to leave the technical discussions to people that understand technical issues.
By the way, I'm sure Bmac is not receiving commissions from Ford.

OP,
You want Custom Alignment in Mountain view to set up your suspension. You are guaranteed not to have an installation problem. I'm sure others on this forum from the Bay area will vouch for them.

 

[BmacIL]

By the way, I'm sure Bmac is not receiving commissions from Ford.

My last paycheck from 1 American Rd, Dearborn MI was in fall 2015 though. Does that count? Although I have been somewhat critical of the whole FP Track suspension package for being merely good and not great. Guess I'm doing a bad job.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

These are some of worst examples you could have picked. Do you know anything about suspensions or major vendors? Anyone who complains that Dinan products ruined the ride of a BMW obviously did something else to his vehicle to cause the problem. But you apparently don't know anything about Dinan products or you would have known this.

What I said was taken out of context by you. It's not that Dinan caused his issue, the springs were just too stiff for his tastes. This is exactly why I recommended 200/750 springs, as I felt it was safe to assume anything more may be more than what he needs. And do I know Dinan? Surprise, I used Dinan exclusively on my 335i, to include an engine tune (stage II), and loved the products.

Now on to the Sir from Long Island. Sure, he probably has an install error (or two or three) and his dampers are too stiff, but I guarantee you once things are all buttoned-up he will still dislike driving those springs in Long Island. What a terrible recommendation.

Lastly, about knowing suspensions. Sure, I'm not fluent like @Norm Peterson , but what I do know is that the logic is flawed with this forum's promoting of the 350R springs (or higher). I'm sure it's a good enough ride for some, I could probably handle it just fine most of the time, but the theory that a properly dampened system rides well regardless of spring rate is preposterous. 350R springs will feel the brunt on bad roads, just like any other springs, but the high rate will show its vicious head with a venomous wrath. People are different, and the use of a cookie-cutter solution is what has me fired-up.

—————
To conclude, so long as Mustang6g remains an open forum, and is not titled “ask 1 guy for an opinion,” I will continue to give my recommendations. I won’t be bullied into a single train of thought and be silenced because I have a degree other than in mechanical engineering.

 

[Bluemustang]

Bang for buck setup - GT350R springs and FP dampers - for the freakin' win! So many happy people running this combination. The dual rate GT350R rear spring has a purpose of making the ride slightly more cushiony when its in the softer rate of its travel. Ford did this purposely. They did a dual rate in the rear in their FP track kit too for same reason.

In no way are the GT350R too stiff for a DD IMO. I suppose it's all personal preference, but no way if you are planning to mod the suspension and lower the car anyways. Lowering the ride height by itself makes the impacts harsher because you've reduced travel. The Mustang is not a cushy cruiser anyhow. It's supposed to be a sports car. So all this business of it being a track spring only is horse hockey. Those same people will tell you the Steeda DR competition springs are great for the street too (even though they are even higher spring rate so that makes no sense).

Also another thing to be considered here is if aftermarket IRS components are going to be added. A lot of NVH comes from that. It may start small, but as you pile on it adds up. In combination with stiffer rates and a lowered ride height yeah it's gonna ride harsher. But that's the price you pay if you want predictable handling when you're pushing the car. There's no free lunch. You can't just throw parts at it and not know how it works.

The beauty of the GT350R springs and the FP dampers is that Ford has already done the work for you. Well tuned rates, check. Great dampers, well matched, check. Minimum drop, so it doesn't F up your geometry or reduce travel that much, check. Later add a front sway bar and lock the rear subframe down and you're winning.

 

[Bluemustang]

I should add that I have run three different springs on this car:

BMR SP080 performance springs (PP rates) - Koni adjustables
FP track (similar to GT350R) - FP dampers
and finally now BMR SP083 handling springs - still FP dampers

My car handles better than it ever has to the point where it can't be exploited properly on the street unless being extremely reckless. And I drive hard on the street. The ride is totally acceptable and is great at high speeds where you want it with a performance suspension. The only reason it is harsher than stock is because of numerous other IRS and suspension mods I have done to lock the car down. That was a conscious decision to make the handling more predictable. The positives are 10X greater than the negatives.

I also have a buddy @SAYWHAT who has the full FP track kit and no other mods. I've driven his car multiple times and it rides amazing. Like really good.

 

[SAY WHAT]

It's as @Bluemustang say's I have the full FP track kit with no other suspension mods. I have had it on the car for about a year and around 15k miles. Its my daily driver and the every once and awhile track day car. The kit is certainly very good for what it is and takes a lot of the guess work out of it. I paid about 1150 for the kit online and had it installed by ford for about 1200 at 150/hr. You can go to a different shop for cheaper labor. The kit has some nvh and can be bad enough to have coffee spill out of the cup in the holder. Most of the nvh is due to road conditions but its pretty livable for me. Also it does a pretty good job with getting rid of the wheel gap.
Pic down below.

This is just my opinion and comparison between two identical cars with different suspension set ups.
I've driven Bluemustangs car and it definitely has more confidence in taking curves at a higher speed when compared to my car. @BmacIL and @Bluemustang are pretty knowledgeable people to ask for suspension recommendations. The best part is most of what they are recommending has been done through trial and error.

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