2017 Ford Mustang will outperform Chevy Camaro in every way

[mustang_guy]

So what do you guys think Ford will do to respond? Ford has the tools but those are some lofty numbers...

they aren't anything til its proven. Only a fool would take those numbers as facts.

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[DiMaio90]

So what do you guys think Ford will do to respond? Ford has the tools but those are some lofty numbers...

I wouldn't be too surprised if they make moves in 2016 really. They had a facelift in 2010 and came back in 2011 with the 5.0. They delayed poweplant changes in gen 4 too. The only reason I think they'll hold off until 2017 or 2018 is for the new auto. DI, Aluminum and new auto will close the gap. The GT has pretty much been stop light king for 2011-2014. 2015 is about even slight advantage GT. Camaro will have a year or 2 on top. But Ford will be back.

 

[DivineStrike]

Imo both cars are still fat pigs, the Chevy 4 cyl is an attractive offering however it is at least a middleweight

 

[mdnt]

Ford has no reason to worry, S550 is still outselling the 5thgens best sales year. the performance difference is still so close itll be a drivers race anyways.
This is still all GMs output not test results, and even then we have seen how the 1LE was supposed to be able to out perform the GTPP with ease. And so far SCCA tracks have shown the GTPP can outperform the 1LE with ease. One m6g member took 3rd in the national Solos in the first month of owning the car.
Let the GM trolls troll all they want, put that car high up ... makes it easier for us to shoot down when it aint performing at the "magazine" levels they were told it would.
12.3 at 116, they gave a number so lets see if its another "ats-v will weigh 3700." Havent seen that one yet either.

 

[re-rx7]

Fuck di. I hate that shit. I hate cleaning Valves every 25k fucking miles. Yes, you do lose hp overtime with DI

 

[Shakooza]

I wouldn't be too surprised if they make moves in 2016 really. They had a facelift in 2010 and came back in 2011 with the 5.0. They delayed poweplant changes in gen 4 too. The only reason I think they'll hold off until 2017 or 2018 is for the new auto. DI, Aluminum and new auto will close the gap. The GT has pretty much been stop light king for 2011-2014. 2015 is about even slight advantage GT. Camaro will have a year or 2 on top. But Ford will be back.

Yea I think it will be a minimum of 2017. Im wondering if Ford doesnt shock us again and throw out a EB six....

 

[Cashcow]

Yea I think it will be a minimum of 2017. Im wondering if Ford doesnt shock us again and throw out a EB six....

That would be interesting if they went that route. A fun twist.

 

[Spartan]

So what do you guys think Ford will do to respond? Ford has the tools but those are some lofty numbers...

'17 MY refresh which would be 3rd model year of S550 and released in Sept of 2016. There is no way Ford is waiting till '18 MY which would be fall of 2017.

'17 MY - Fall of 2016:
- 10 Speed Auto
- HP/TQ boost in EB and GT
- Aluminum pieces added that they built but left off '15
- Digital Gauges (like F-150)
- Exhaust Modes
- Updated front end/hood for GT (EB/V6 remains the same)

 

[likeaboss]

Ford has no reason to worry, S550 is still outselling the 5thgens best sales year. the performance difference is still so close itll be a drivers race anyways.
This is still all GMs output not test results, and even then we have seen how the 1LE was supposed to be able to out perform the GTPP with ease. And so far SCCA tracks have shown the GTPP can outperform the 1LE with ease. One m6g member took 3rd in the national Solos in the first month of owning the car.
Let the GM trolls troll all they want, put that car high up ... makes it easier for us to shoot down when it aint performing at the "magazine" levels they were told it would.
12.3 at 116, they gave a number so lets see if its another "ats-v will weigh 3700." Havent seen that one yet either.

Drivers race? LOL Yeah if there was a average driver in the Camaro and Evan Smith in the GT.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they make moves in 2016 really. They had a facelift in 2010 and came back in 2011 with the 5.0. They delayed poweplant changes in gen 4 too. The only reason I think they'll hold off until 2017 or 2018 is for the new auto. DI, Aluminum and new auto will close the gap. The GT has pretty much been stop light king for 2011-2014. 2015 is about even slight advantage GT. Camaro will have a year or 2 on top. But Ford will be back.

Actually the 392 Auto Challenger is the the stop light king for 2015. Technically Dodge beats everyone with the Hellcat in 15 and 16 for straight line performance.

 

[DiMaio90]

Actually the 392 Auto Challenger is the the stop light king for 2015. Technically Dodge beats everyone with the Hellcat in 15 and 16 for straight line performance.

Good point! I was referring mainly at the entry level V8 since there are way more GTs and SS out there than Hellcats and GT500s. 2015 is scat pack. 2016 might be the SS's turn again.

 

[thePill]

I think that was done a long time ago......love you Pill!

Still the most accurate source for Camaro info... I imagine some will complain when test show heavier cars.

The official weight was the last piece, well, sort of... It wont mean much if it needs brakes, tire and some reinforcement.

We were told the convertible was integrated into the coupe, that was not the case. I'm not sure if that will be beneficial or not.

This has allowed the GT350 and Z06 to have a shot at weight reduction without sacrificing comforts. Amazingly, the Z06 only gained 100lbs over the Z51 and that was with a SC.

The GT350 took on some massive equipment yet settled around the GTPP weight, regardless of the equipment.

The Camaro remained true to the Alpha's recipe, leaving the structure as basic as possible. I do think integration is more efficient, but, as long as the sub-frames are secure, there shouldn't be a huge difference in rigidity. The 107 inch wheelbase will naturally be a bit harder to twist but I would think the sub-frame option won't be too far behind. It is kinda last Gen but so is chassis sharing...

The Camaro has more sub-frame connectors than any other vehicle I have ever seen. It's not bad, it just goes to show you what happens to a 4 cylinder platform when a V8 is added.

You do pay a $4000 Premium for a 20lbs weight advantage and 20hp.

Something on the weight loss list is the reason they broke the $36,500 basement MSRP.

However, looking at the ATS-V, it has more aluminum than the SS. I'm still not sure how they got a larger car to weigh less than a smaller one. Especially since most of the steel parts were CTS...

It's one of the major issues I still have with any 2016 Camaro being under 3750lbs. The ATS-V is structurally lighter by a fair margin, like 80lbs.

The 1SS will typically weigh right where I said it would, 3780-3820lbs. I highly doubt we will ever see a 1SS under 3750lbs, which makes their projected 1/4 mile times difficult to obtain.

The serious issue are the brakes and tires. I gave a pretty fair warning in brake performance, Chevy's initial 117 feet isn't comforting. By the time the SS is ready to take a 1LE, it will need 14/14.5 rotors and 19x285/295's.

 

[Free Agent]

Props to GM for keeping the weights down on those trims, but……

I'm still waiting for 1LT manual and 1SS automatic as well as 2LT and 2SS manual AND automatic weights. Lets see if they make that 200 pound loss on those trims as well. Interesting how they weren't listed isn't it.

I also see they quote the 2015 1LT automatic (in the GM media site article) at 3729 where it is actually listed as 3722 on their online ordering guide and Chevrolet website.

 

[BaylorCorvette]

I imagine some will complain when test show heavier cars.

This is literally what you do.

Why does the Mustang always need to have a Premium equipped and be loaded?

GTPP's are around 3740-3760lbs... I'm not sure why people obsessively option the car and then measure weight and MSRP.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=778813&postcount=5391

 

[DiMaio90]

Still the most accurate source for Camaro info... I imagine some will complain when test show heavier cars.

The official weight was the last piece, well, sort of... It wont mean much if it needs brakes, tire and some reinforcement.

We were told the convertible was integrated into the coupe, that was not the case. I'm not sure if that will be beneficial or not.

This has allowed the GT350 and Z06 to have a shot at weight reduction without sacrificing comforts. Amazingly, the Z06 only gained 100lbs over the Z51 and that was with a SC.

The GT350 took on some massive equipment yet settled around the GTPP weight, regardless of the equipment.

The Camaro remained true to the Alpha's recipe, leaving the structure as basic as possible. I do think integration is more efficient, but, as long as the sub-frames are secure, there shouldn't be a huge difference in rigidity. The 107 inch wheelbase will naturally be a bit harder to twist but I would think the sub-frame option won't be too far behind. It is kinda last Gen but so is chassis sharing...

The Camaro has more sub-frame connectors than any other vehicle I have ever seen. It's not bad, it just goes to show you what happens to a 4 cylinder platform when a V8 is added.

You do pay a $4000 Premium for a 20lbs weight advantage and 20hp.

Something on the weight loss list is the reason they broke the $36,500 basement MSRP.

However, looking at the ATS-V, it has more aluminum than the SS. I'm still not sure how they got a larger car to weigh less than a smaller one. Especially since most of the steel parts were CTS...

It's one of the major issues I still have with any 2016 Camaro being under 3750lbs. The ATS-V is structurally lighter by a fair margin, like 80lbs.

The 1SS will typically weigh right where I said it would, 3780-3820lbs. I highly doubt we will ever see a 1SS under 3750lbs, which makes their projected 1/4 mile times difficult to obtain.

The serious issue are the brakes and tires. I gave a pretty fair warning in brake performance, Chevy's initial 117 feet isn't comforting. By the time the SS is ready to take a 1LE, it will need 14/14.5 rotors and 19x285/295's.

Operating under the assumption that GM didn't just lie to the whole world again with its base weight of 3685lbs for a 1SS. How would one option a 1SS coupe to weigh 3780lbs? or 3820lbs? I'm sure a 1SS auto with sunroof, mrc(doesn't actually weigh much), sound system(is there an option for this?) and sunroof would gain significant weight but I don't see this gaining 95lbs over base let alone 135lbs.

I agree brakes/rotors are a concern. I think they will be taken care of in a performance package in '16 or '17 with lightweight wheels and upgraded brakes. Make it a $3500 premium and its performance and cost (1SS PP/1LE 41K) would slot directly inbetween a GTPP@35K and BaseGT350 @50K. If 3685 is true for the base they could get this done under 3750lbs.

 

[thePill]

If Ford did incorporate noisy vert reinforcements into the chassis, there isn't much Ford can do in the weight department. I think this is where Ford screwed the pooch lol. Had they reinforced it separately as gm did, perhaps we would have seen a lighter mustang. They can always add aluminum to suspension and such but it will only lighten it so much

Nah, a dedicated platform with integrated reinforcement is the best approach if a convertible is an option.


Sub-frame connectors are never as good as integrated support. The Corvette and Mustang have both benefitted from this.

The only issue would be the entire lineup would get heavier overall. However, convertible and HALO support would benefit.

The reason the Z06 only gained 100lbs and the 350R actually had a chance at weight reduction even after some pretty heavy equipment.

I think choosing to not integrate the reinforcement was a bad idea, just as downsizing the rotors.

Besides, we still don't know if it's going to be 3685lbs officially yet and endure some phantom weight gain from now to then.

Chances are, we are being given a very low number and 1/4 mile times are simulated from that.

Now that the GT has a $4000 MSRP cushion, they can move on to some GT350 equipment. As of now, I don't think Chevy will have a GT350 answer.

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