2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 VS. 2017 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT350R: THE FOREVER WAR

[Minn19]

Two wrongs don't make a right!!!! lol
Its all good. The Zl1's can be faster and the world will still want the better overall car. I wanted a 997.1 because duh!!! Is the 350R a better performer sure but it is not an overall better car. I did not want to pay big money for a car with 20-40k miles not to include cost of maintenance. Wonder why a 10 y/o car is commanding such high prices? HMMM!?!?!.
To the MSRP conversation, I also got a smashing deal for my used R and I have first right of refusal on an 18 R. Albeit I have a long term purchasing history and friendship with the dealer, minus its service department. They SUCK!

He hasn't even driven one so I'm not sure how he can say that.

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[ElAntonius]

Two wrongs don't make a right!!!! lol
Its all good. The Zl1's can be faster and the world will still want the better overall car. I wanted a 997.1 because duh!!! Is the 350R a better performer sure but it is not an overall better car. I did not want to pay big money for a car with 20-40k miles not to include cost of maintenance. Wonder why a 10 y/o car is commanding such high prices? HMMM!?!?!.
To the MSRP conversation, I also got a smashing deal for my used R and I have first right of refusal on an 18 R. Albeit I have a long term purchasing history and friendship with the dealer, minus its service department. They SUCK!

Funny thing about ADMs is that it really only reflects the market value for the car. If the market is willing to pay $20k over sticker, that's what the general price will be.

At the end of the day, neither the manufacturer or the dealers decide the price of a car. The market does. And the market generally has been saying that Ford underpriced the 350 lineup, a situation that the dealers are all too happy to take advantage of.

No one ever complains when it cuts the other way, which I find amusing. If Ford priced the 350 at around $70k, and dealers were selling them for 5-10k off that, that would also be the market speaking. But you wouldn't get people on here complaining about it.

 

[mdmoore23]

Funny thing about ADMs is that it really only reflects the market value for the car. If the market is willing to pay $20k over sticker, that's what the general price will be.

At the end of the day, neither the manufacturer or the dealers decide the price of a car. The market does. And the market generally has been saying that Ford underpriced the 350 lineup, a situation that the dealers are all too happy to take advantage of.

No one ever complains when it cuts the other way, which I find amusing. If Ford priced the 350 at around $70k, and dealers were selling them for 5-10k off that, that would also be the market speaking. But you wouldn't get people on here complaining about it.

Giving away $10k-$50k to a dealership for a Mustang that most wouldn't even trust to service said Mustang, will never be a rational way of thinking for me. I just have to say that I've never seen any car be underpriced. But I have seen people overpay. And obviously, we've exhausted all performance arguments in this thread, since ADM's are now the topic. Please, let's not go down that road. I could talk (or type) all day.

 

[ElAntonius]

Giving away $10k-$50k to a dealership for a Mustang that most wouldn't even trust to service said Mustang, will never be a rational way of thinking for me. I just have to say that I've never seen any car be underpriced. But I have seen people overpay. And obviously, we've exhausted all performance arguments in this thread, since ADM's are now the topic. Please, let's not go down that road. I could talk (or type) all day.

I wouldn't (and didn't). But the fact is, for dealerships to maintain those markups, SOMEONE has to pay them.

 

[Norm Peterson]

But the fact is, for dealerships to maintain those markups, SOMEONE has to pay them.

There's a popular quote ascribed to one Phineas T. Barnum that explains it in a nutshell.


Norm

 

[Zitrosounds]

There's a popular quote ascribed to one Phineas T. Barnum that explains it in a nutshell.


Norm

Unfortunately those suckers are normally well off and make it difficult for other less wealthy enthusiasts who do not have that type of disposable income.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Unfortunately those suckers are normally well off and make it difficult for other less wealthy enthusiasts who do not have that type of disposable income.

Prime example! I know of an individual who has not one but TWO R's. Both bought with mark ups. One is a garage queen and the other is being modified and boosted I believe. Kind of makes it hard for blue collar joe blow to get his hard working hands on a 70k car. But!!! Demand is high and limited sooooooooo

 

[4V Mayhem]

In the long run I can see people looking back and saying "I shouldn't of sold my GT350 because it was such a unique car because of xyz." I'm guessing when you guys (ZL1 owners) move on to the next fastest thing you won't even look back twice at your ZL1s.

Shelby owners will probably look back at the $20K they paid over MSRP and say "I shouldn't have sold it, I lost $20K"...

 

[Zitrosounds]

What I think is crazy is the colossus flop the Z/28 was. Amazingly capable car but people could just not seem to get over paying 70K+ for a Camaro. My local Chevy dealer, from which I test drove a used C7 GS auto : ( and an 16 SS 1LE, told me that every Z/28 they sold was traded in within a year for a Z06. Reasons varied from, couldn't keep it on the road (probably attributed to driver skill because that car has tons of grip) and lack niceties. I do not believe the Zl1 will have that problem but the 1LE might succumb to fate of the Z/28. It seems GM's buyers prefer lots of comfort items vs full blown racers.

 

[ElAntonius]

Prime example! I know of an individual who has not one but TWO R's. Both bought with mark ups. One is a garage queen and the other is being modified and boosted I believe. Kind of makes it hard for blue collar joe blow to get his hard working hands on a 70k car. But!!! Demand is high and limited sooooooooo

Hence my statement about the market and ADM. Personally it's why I didn't buy an R...the extra cash (ADM included) just didn't justify the differences to me personally.

If I could have gotten an R at MSRP I would have deeply considered it.

But a cold look at how the free market works tells you the simple fact...people with 90k to burn aren't too troubled by spending that on a 350R.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Shelby owners will probably look back at the $20K they paid over MSRP and say "I shouldn't have sold it, I lost $20K"...

Shelby owners? all of them? Such a broad brush you paint with. I did not pay ADM and will not and many have not as well. Also I am pretty certain those that could afford the 10, 15, 20, 30K will never look back and say that. Why? Its simple. They are the people of which I spoke of on my previous post.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Hence my statement about the market and ADM. Personally it's why I didn't buy an R...the extra cash (ADM included) just didn't justify the differences to me personally.

If I could have gotten an R at MSRP I would have deeply considered it.

But a cold look at how the free market works tells you the simple fact...people with 90k to burn aren't too troubled by spending that on a 350R.

exactly!!!!!!

 

[Minn19]

Shelby owners will probably look back at the $20K they paid over MSRP and say "I shouldn't have sold it, I lost $20K"...

Maybe, but I doubt it, unless they completely had their head in the sand they knew that 20k was gone the second they signed/drove off. I can see them looking back and saying I shouldn't of paid that much. But as others said, most people that do this 20k doesn't really mean that much to them.

 

[machsmith]

I've been more upset at losing 50 cents than I have been at losing xxk. It's the method in which it disappears.
I paid 250k in taxes last year...it bothers me more than the adm I paid. How are those tax dollars going to be spent... I'm sure my adm will be better spent by the dealer.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I just wanted to see how many panties got ruffled, quite a bit it seems. Goal accomplished. No Camaro looks as good as my R. And that's not subjective, that's just fact.

So you were just trolling? What did you catch? A big catfish looks like.

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