2014 Z28 Assault Thread.

[thePill]

In order to class in ST3/TT3, at 3837lbs, the z28 needs to Dyno at 426hp. Even then, you have to deal with 3200lbs Boss 302's (which takes a tube framed 5th Gen to compete against is SCCA T1) and 3500lbs Z06 (ballast used).

Good luck, I'll be rootin' for ya'

Sponsored

 

[Jim968]

You don't see a problem? Well, at least you Camaro fans are reading rule books now. Did you calculate the race weight and power to weight ratio to see where it would class? Forget SU, it's similar to Daytona Prototype (I lol'd at that).

Here are the classes...


ST1: 5.50-7.99
ST2: 8.00-8.99
ST3: 9.00-up


Now, TT follows the ST classes... ST3 contains highly modified Boss 302S's and caged Riley Z06's. The z28 will class in ST2 and TT2... There is a problem with that... ST/TT3 isn't OEM (Think Boss 302R, only customized.


American Iron is where OEM takes place.


Technically, the z28 is legal for Formula 1, but......


I did some NASA math for the z28 long ago, I believe I mentioned it would "class with tube framed race cars. I believe a cage is required in ST as well.

The point is you said that “the Z28 is not permitted in NASA”, and that you “can’t race the car ANYWHERE”. On those points you’re 100% wrong, so you need to stop making those claims if you want to maintain any credibility at all. The fact is that car can run in ST or SU with nothing more than safety mods, so if you want to race it you can. Sure, if you want to be at the sharp end of a class you’ll need to do performance or weight mods, but that’s true of all cars in all of the NASA classes.

Furthermore, it doesn’t take much to set up a spec class to run with NASA, so if a bunch of Z28 owners wanted to race each other in a spec class in OEM trim with safety mods they could easily do so.

Also, I raced NASA extensively for 5 years, and never saw a Daytona Prototype running in SU, although technically one could. Against the guys that typically show up for a regional race a well modded Z28 would do just fine in SU. Hell, there was a Honda S2000 running SU at Nationals this year.

 

[thePill]

I think commonsense says the z28 isn't eligible for Super Unlimited (SU). Needless to say man, some things just do not need to be written down...

Your saying the 2014 Camaro z28 would not only be eligible but successful in SU? Against one piece fiberglass bodied, tube framed race cars? Maybe a z28.R but not the OEM z28 in SU.

I believe there is an approved vehicle listing that comes out every February, I don't think the 5th Gen is on there for the America Iron Series...

Super Touring requires a full roll cage, I guess you can install one yourself but Riley Technologies usually do that for teams to spec. I would say maybe a Boss 302S equivalent, something like the SSX. Maybe the z28.X? Common sense says you cannot register a z28 in this class...

Here is an example of a ST3/TT3 car, I posted the weight shot because it's awesome. This car has the Electronics Pack, 401a and the Brembo pack. This is what they started with....

This is what it is now...

Slicks and cage required. I wouldn't consider it a contender in ST anyway... I believe most Corvettes use a modded LS3.

Besides, ST and SU (still funny) are in the Unlimited Modification Class in the National Racing Series. The Sanction Competition Series probably needs to hear from Chevrolet if they want to get on this list.

 

[thePill]

What class did you race in and not notice when Super Touring, Super Unlimited and Performance Touring.

Do you know that the factory modifications accumulate penalty points in PT? Everything over the base factory model.

I don't think the 2014 z28's interior will look like this... Do you?

I think the z28 bust the 8.70:1 PTW ratio for PTA, it would get shuffled into SU because it can't fit anywhere else. I think Super Unlimited is the perfect class for such a car as the '14 z28, I think the "Super Unlimited" class is an oxymoron. The SU class is composed of everything that couldn't meet required specifications for the class. The Boss 302S (S means Spec) was specifically built for the SCCA and NASA classes. Chevy needs a z28.X and z28.R to fill these gaps.

The z28 is NOT PERMITTED to run in the American Iron Series. That is a shame because that is where the Mustang's are.

Also, the maximum wheel size is 18 inches, you cannot use an 18 inch wheel with 15.5 inch disc brakes..

Almost every Mustang is permitted to race this class. Even the ZL1 qualified I think... I know the ZL1 is allowed in STSU. This is a Manufacturers Series formed in a agreement. Every Mustang/Camaro/Firebird ever made EVER, including all the 3rd Party Tuners like Roush, Henny, Lig, Steeda, Shelby, SLP, Saleen... The basic requirement is BE A CAMARO!!! The z28 is not permitted to race in American Iron. :( LAME!!!

HUGE FAILURE TO THE CAMARO FANS AND THOSE WHO WAITED FOR A z28!!!

 

[Jim968]

Your saying the 2014 Camaro z28 would not only be eligible but successful in SU? Against one piece fiberglass bodied, tube framed race cars? Maybe a z28.R but not the OEM z28 in SU.

No, I'm saying its eligible as are all other cars except open wheel. You won't win Nationals, but a well modded Z28 will find someone to race with at a regional race. This class attracts a wide variety of cars, and where you finish depends on who shows up.

I believe there is an approved vehicle listing that comes out every February, I don't think the 5th Gen is on there for the America Iron Series...

Note that I never said anything about American Iron. However 5th gens are eligible per the 2013 rule book. No word that I've heard about the Z28 in the 2014 AI rule book, but it Z28 will have trouble meeting brakes rules for American Iron, and would need to mod accordingly at the very least to run in that class.

Super Touring requires a full roll cage, I guess you can install one yourself but Riley Technologies usually do that for teams to spec. I would say maybe a Boss 302S equivalent, something like the SSX. Maybe the z28.X? Common sense says you cannot register a z28 in this class...

Of course it requires a cage! Nobody goes wheel to wheel racing without a full cage these days. I don't know of any organization that allows you to race a modern car without a roll cage, and you'd be crazy to do so even if they did. When was the last time you were at the track?

You take the car to a cage builder and they install a cage. Do you think that people are driving off the dealer lot and right onto the podium of a NASA wheel to wheel race? If so you're more confused than I first thought.

Besides, ST and SU (still funny) are in the Unlimited Modification Class in the National Racing Series. The Sanction Competition Series probably needs to hear from Chevrolet if they want to get on this list.

Boy are you confused. Those are non-production cars that have received specific approval. Production cars do not need specific approval, and you certainly don't need approval from Chevy to race with NASA.

Also you keep referring to TT. Time trialing is not racing. My comments pertain to wheel to wheel racing.

 

[Jim968]

What class did you race in and not notice when Super Touring, Super Unlimited and Performance Touring.

Do you know that the factory modifications accumulate penalty points in PT? Everything over the base factory model.

I don't think the 2014 z28's interior will look like this... Do you?

I think the z28 bust the 8.70:1 PTW ratio for PTA, it would get shuffled into SU because it can't fit anywhere else. I think Super Unlimited is the perfect class for such a car as the '14 z28, I think the "Super Unlimited" class is an oxymoron. The SU class is composed of everything that couldn't meet required specifications for the class. The Boss 302S (S means Spec) was specifically built for the SCCA and NASA classes. Chevy needs a z28.X and z28.R to fill these gaps.

The z28 is NOT PERMITTED to run in the American Iron Series. That is a shame because that is where the Mustang's are.

Also, the maximum wheel size is 18 inches, you cannot use an 18 inch wheel with 15.5 inch disc brakes..

Almost every Mustang is permitted to race this class. Even the ZL1 qualified I think... I know the ZL1 is allowed in STSU. This is a Manufacturers Series formed in a agreement. Every Mustang/Camaro/Firebird ever made EVER, including all the 3rd Party Tuners like Roush, Henny, Lig, Steeda, Shelby, SLP, Saleen... The basic requirement is BE A CAMARO!!! The z28 is not permitted to race in American Iron. :( LAME!!!

HUGE FAILURE TO THE CAMARO FANS AND THOSE WHO WAITED FOR A z28!!!

Who said anything about Performance Touring? That's a completely separate class from Super Touring. Also, you're the one who brought up American Iron, another completely separate class.

And yes, the Z28 interior will look like that after you take it to a good cage builder.

 

[BaylorCorvette]

Here's an interesting video about the 2012 Nissan GT-R. They recorded a new record via computer data they acquired from a run, however it was "unofficial." The day they were supposed to do their "official" run was rained out.

I could see how someone can make the argument that Chevy had the same thing happen with the Z/28.

 

[PowerUp]

To paraphrase a famous saying, "There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians", and I've suddenly found someone who wears ALL THREE HATS.

19 pages of FAIL, exceeded only by blind ego.

What a waste of time.

 

[thePill]

To paraphrase a famous saying, "There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians", and I've suddenly found someone who wears ALL THREE HATS.

19 pages of FAIL, exceeded only by blind ego.

What a waste of time.

Awwww... Upset because you fell for GM marketing?

I love how Chevy tried to pass off a 1:59 for the Mustang's then show the viewers exactly how much they didn't make an effort. LOL!!!! Before this thread, you idiots talked about the dominating everything in road racing from Grand Am, ALMS, A new Trans Am series and SCCA. Once I informed people, that quickly changed to just "HP" events and club track days :(

What happened to good ol' drag racing? Oh that's right, the GT500 chased the Camaro from the sport. Tail between legs...

So, what have I lied about? The z28's curb weight? No, I made people aware that the SS's had gained weight.
Legal in major road racing organizations? No, the z28 is not legal in organized road racing, with maybe the exception of a limitless mod class with cages.

Wasn't my Nurburgring reports close to accurate? I had speeds and times 6 weeks before anyone else... 2 weeks of record runs and they couldn't get a better time then a 7:37. I doubt the non-caged version is much slower still.

The 5th Gens racing record? They still haven't won a championship, and trail the Boss in victories (big time).

It's not my fault you were deceived, this is not a legal option for competition. The brakes, tires, wheels and in some cases the LS7 cause a lot of issues. The guy below me wants to enter a z28 in a class that it would need heavy modifications to be eligible.

Have you seen the Milford media runs? Kinda lame if you ask me. GM was caught cheating in a competition against BMW. What an embarrassment.

If the thread was such a failure, how come Motor Trend and Hot Rod questioned Al on WoT about it? If legal racing is a fail, why is AL now all the sudden concerned about a special series after the question was asked?

Is the Nurburgring time of "8's every lap" going to turn into another "11's all day" fantasy? Speaking of lying... Lets review...

Al simulates a ZL1 victory over the GT500, then has his ass handed to him in almost every comparison.
Al states "11's All Day" when even low 12's are hard to come by.
Al says the z28 and ZL1 can beat the GT500 by 6 and 3 seconds, although, Chevy is the only source in which their Camaro is considerably faster (Really lame)
Mark Reuss says a Strut Tower brace make a significant difference in rigidity, however, when the ZL1 laps in a full cage it doesn't really do anything.
Camaro5 tried to push light curb weights for the ZL1 and z28 (I was close on both, 4152/ZL1 and 3850/z28)
Chevy branded an LS3 equipped ZL1 in SCCA to compete against the Boss, the GT.R and GS are complete Riley race cars, they do not have anything to do with the OEM cars (Ed Welburn)

I have been pretty accurate when it comes to the Camaro... I brought curb weights, lap times, speeds and some dates...


...and I get called a liar. LOL!!!

 

[thePill]

Who said anything about Performance Touring? That's a completely separate class from Super Touring. Also, you're the one who brought up American Iron, another completely separate class.

And yes, the Z28 interior will look like that after you take it to a good cage builder.

ST, SU and PT would be the only classes remotely possible for the z28. Chevy marketed the z28 as a revival of Z/28 heritage. The '14 z28 has absolutely nothing in common with the original. Al wants to start a brand new series that the z28 can compete in. The SCCA and NASA already have a few. For some reason, you think the z28 would be accepted in ST and SU (LOL!!!), it is not permitted in PT nor any of the classes in the Sanctioned Series. Huge failure on Chevy's part, you can't race this thing anywhere.

Boy are you confused. Those are non-production cars that have received specific approval. Production cars do not need specific approval, and you certainly don't need approval from Chevy to race with NASA.

Also you keep referring to TT. Time trialing is not racing. My comments pertain to wheel to wheel racing.

I think you are confused, here is a list of all the sanctioned Camaro's and where they class.

No sanction, no racing... There are no other Camaro's

No, I'm saying its eligible as are all other cars except open wheel. You won't win Nationals, but a well modded Z28 will find someone to race with at a regional race. This class attracts a wide variety of cars, and where you finish depends on who shows up.

Note that I never said anything about American Iron. However 5th gens are eligible per the 2013 rule book. No word that I've heard about the Z28 in the 2014 AI rule book, but it Z28 will have trouble meeting brakes rules for American Iron, and would need to mod accordingly at the very least to run in that class.

Of course it requires a cage! Nobody goes wheel to wheel racing without a full cage these days. I don't know of any organization that allows you to race a modern car without a roll cage, and you'd be crazy to do so even if they did. When was the last time you were at the track?

You take the car to a cage builder and they install a cage. Do you think that people are driving off the dealer lot and right onto the podium of a NASA wheel to wheel race? If so you're more confused than I first thought.

Please see approved list above regarding legality. I love when Camaro fans get butt hurt about not fitting in anywhere. Especially after they were lied to. You never said anything about American Iron, instead, you brought up classes an OEM z28 can't run in. They also cannot run in the Sanctioned Series for multiple reasons.

Care to comment on the z28 media laps? The ones they sandbagged? I would love to hear about that...

Cages are cages, I wouldn't even consider the z28 for ST2 anyway, for one, that class is full of sub 3000lb cars and bringing a 4000lb Camaro into the mix is hilarious. When I say full cage, I mean tube frame chassis. ST3 uses roll cages, in which the z28 was to great of a PTW ratio.

I must be confused then, as a Motorsport Chassis Fab/Engineer, I should know this by now. Cages are required for competition, except in SCCA AM classes where you can still run cage-less. As of right now, there is NO class an OEM Camaro z28 can run in. That is the basis of the thread, where can owners use this wanna be road racer? It will take 2-3 separate models to cover the classes. Anything with a cage should be designated R, S or X (like everybody else). Those would likely be eligible for ST1 or ST2. However, your not buying an OEM z28 like that, you are buying a car you can't take to the track and race. TT does matter, at least to the manufacturers that sanction their vehicles.

 

[thePill]

I know, I know... It is disheartening watching this. Chevy building a car you can't use and market it to people that's what it was SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR. There is still some confusion internally about it's legal status. No American Iron, No American Sedan, No SCCA Touring, No SCCA World Challenge, No Grand Am/ALMS (period), No NASA PT, No NASA TT or Auto-X, No NASA or SCCA Mustang/Camaro class eligibility No ST or SU, No FIA and No Trans Am for sure.

Now, it isn't recommend for a daily driver and could have a race warranty on it... Probably a reduced warranty like the Boss 302LS.

You can't race on the strip, the Mustang's have all but eliminated the Camaro from that venue. IF they would have just used Cast Iron rotors (14 inch), they could have down sized to an 18 inch tire.

No the garbage starts to pour out like "We did a faster lap, in traffic", "We don't have video", "The z28 is 6 seconds faster than the GT500, even though we just demonstrated how slow we would have to go to do that" (Dumb asses). The ZL1 is 3 seconds faster than the GT500 even though we are the only one that can manage that, again, no video.

We got our best times using a fully caged prototype z28, then did a 3 year old Boss 302LS lap without one.

They should have thought about the customers and what the term "Like the original" means. The original could be taken to the track and raced no problem. It followed the rulebooks and still remained successful. This new car isn't allowed in racing at all, unless you want to race these guys as some of you are suggesting...

I'm sure we will see a z28 badge in road racing (like the ZL1) but it will be far from OEM.



I want to hear from the Camaro faithful on this video... This again, is a media tour lap at Milford in a fully caged, race seated, harnessed z28. The lap starts at 0:32, near the end the driver tells the ride along "That was only 8/10's".

Here is the kicker, the z28 lays down a 1:59.66 and beats the (likely falsely advertised) GT500 time of 1:59.94... Coasting for a good minute of that 1:59.



I would be flat out embarrassed to be a Camaro fan having waited years for this car, a true Z/28 and Chevy pulls this. It's one thing to push your own times when needed, shave tires, pull weight and tune... Whatever they need to do to look good. Although, dragging your feet in a competitors car is probably one of the most slimiest, rotten marketing angles you can possibly conjure. Just watching them coast around the track, in conversation, like a Sunday drive only builds my disdain for Chevy. If we can't trust them on things like running the competition or "11's all day, I am sorry Camaro fans, It's just hard to believe a chronic liar.

As far as organized road racing is concerned, look elsewhere for a car. If the MSRP is near what they are suggesting, I feel it would have been better if survival of the fittest would have taken them in 2008.

The Mustang competes in over 20 classes across 5 different models. Chevy only made an effort with the 1LE in SCCA T2 but finished waaaaaay back in 21st, behind seven Coyote 5.0's... You remember, the 1LE that is faster than a Boss 302/302LS but can't break into the top 15 in 2 seasons with a Pro driver? Yeah, the 1LE is about as big a threat to the Boss as it is to a Corvette. Every couple of weeks I get another knucklehead in here that thinks he found a class where the OEM equipment is legal... But never considers the level of the competition... And this guys a supposed veteran.

I am glad Camaro5's members are aware of the rulebooks now. It was comical watching all their hopes of a big championship season crumble to the ground after the rulebooks were discovered. There is a 5 year NASA veteran on here that intends on racing a z28 in SU this season. WOW, I can't wait to see how that goes. Why not just race in the Camaro/Mustang class or American Iron... Oh that's right, you would actually have to back up those claims wouldn't you. I think we know how that would go. Since the ZL1 just destroyed the GT500 anyway at Milford, we shouldn't be seeing the GT500 pull wins anywhere ant any track at that advantage. What likely happened is that the customers were lied to OR, critical information was withheld. You could tell the "legal" question threw Al off.

Oh but it was raining!!! Not the entire 2 weeks of record attempts. They did 10 hours of laps and 1000 miles during development. No faster time folks, that's what you get for possibly $15-20k more. A faster lap time on a track you can't race on and is impossible to replicate on tourist days. Run VIR, Sebring, Laguna, Mid-OH...Don't act like a limp wristed f@ggot when it's time to lap the Mustang's because you want to look good.

 

[Jim968]

For some reason, you think the z28 would be accepted in ST and SU (LOL!!!), it is not permitted in PT nor any of the classes in the Sanctioned Series. Huge failure on Chevy's part, you can't race this thing anywhere.

Yes, it will be accepted in ST and SU. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you delusional? NASA prides itself on having a class for every production car, and those are the classes where it fits. No acceptance required. You show up with a comp license, and a car that conforms to NASA’s safety rules and you race. Simple as that. If you want to run up front you make whatever go fast mods the class rules allow you. Admittedly a stretch for the Z28 in SU, but very achievable in a weight to power class like ST. This is how it works. Having successfully prepared and raced my own car in NASA I can I can speak as an authority on this topic. Why don’t you tell us about your experience of racing in NASA. Oh, that’s right. You don’t have any.

I think you are confused, here is a list of all the sanctioned Camaro's and where they class.

No sanction, no racing... There are no other Camaro's

Sigh. That chart is from the Performance Touring rules. Once again, the Performance Touring class has nothing whatsoever to do with the Super Touring class. They don't even run together on track at the same time. :frusty:

You never said anything about American Iron, instead, you brought up classes an OEM z28 can't run in.

So for you its not racing unless the car can be driven off the dealer's lot and onto the starting grid?

I must be confused then, as a Motorsport Chassis Fab/Engineer, I should know this by now. Cages are required for competition, except in SCCA AM classes where you can still run cage-less. As of right now, there is NO class an OEM Camaro z28 can run in. That is the basis of the thread, where can owners use this wanna be road racer? It will take 2-3 separate models to cover the classes. Anything with a cage should be designated R, S or X (like everybody else). Those would likely be eligible for ST1 or ST2. However, your not buying an OEM z28 like that, you are buying a car you can't take to the track and race. TT does matter, at least to the manufacturers that sanction their vehicles.

Tell us more about cars that can be driven off of the dealer's lot, pass tech unmodded, and race for a win. Please be specific.

 

[thePill]

Sigh, That is the entire listing of eligible Camaro's and where they place. I was merely showing you that PT is where a majority of Camaro's run. That was the reason for mentioning PT, because that is likely where it would end up. You will see that the ZL1 classes in ST/SU but none have registered...

Racing: Racing is only racing if the vehicle you selected can compete in a "race". If you cannot enter a race, then obviously it is not a race. I never said the z28 could be taken from the dealer lot to the race track, CHEVROLET insist that... Not me. I am just setting the record straight.

All SCCA/NASA Showroom Stock classes, Am Sedan classes and SCCA T3 class are all OEM with NO CAGE. NASA Time Trials can be run stock as well, it's up to the teams to manage penalty points. These are off the top of my head and pertaining to RWD coupes. There are Compact classes that are OEM. The SCCA has quite a few classes that have little or no modifications. In fact, Amateur classes do not require cages is the SCCA. That is a huge list of cars. Due to the CC brakes, tires and disc diameter (LS7 sometimes too), Pro racing for the z28 is probably out of the question. Am classes in SCCA and NASA still require Iron disc... and a maximum of 14 inch disc as well (I think this is worldwide as well).

You do know that the classes you are suggesting the z28 compete in (LOL) are indeed non-production right? ST1, ST2, ST3 and SU (LOL) are all non-production classes. This was why I posted the New car list. Chevy needs to get on that list in order to compete in Super Touring. It would take a Non-production z28 to compete in that class (ST2). That said, ST2 cars use tube frames (ST1 for sure).

Tell me more how you expected Chevy to sell you a car as "OEM Race Ready" when you yourself know how difficult it is to class without safety equipment. Remember, I am not marketing the z28 as a race ready track car, I am saying the exact opposite.

In your opinion, is it wise to continue to market the z28 knowing the difficulty drivers/owners will have classing? Or should they just keep doing road racing comparisons, testing on road courses and continue to push it as a race car?

Anyway, I am glad you agree with me. Chevy shouldn't be marketing the car as such...

 

[thePill]

I guess you guys are taking me to school... Still no legal NASA class for an OEM z28, unless you can find one.

Your members are completely uneducated, until just recently many convinced themselves that the z was legal where ever it registered. :lol:

For classing for 5 years, you sure don't know much about the organization. The z28 would be a great car for many over there, a wanna be car for a wanna be driver.

I have no idea why you would consider an OEM z28 a candidate for a non-production vehicle class. That is just another wild claim with no solid backing to support your theory. Nice try though, gotta pay attention to the type of competition. Some of the equipment is acceptable but, the level of competition in ST is just waaaaay above the z28's head.

Nobody have the b@lls to question Chevy's Milford media laps? Doesn't that seem strange to you? The lap was done with very little effort and not much speed at all.

Camaro5 members don't like me because I am closer to the truth then most speculators... They don't like truth if it's negative. Just like them continuously pushing this z28 are a race car. If the ZL1 is 3 seconds ahead of the GT500 at Milford, how is it that Randy Pobst pulled a 1/2 a second on the ZL1 at Laguna? How could the 2012 GT500 be faster than the '12 Boss 302LS but yet Chevy can't manage to pull on a 12 Boss?

The Boss is faster than the GT500... What a royal f@ck up!!! Only people on Camaro5 would believe that, even after independent test say otherwise. So desperate for a victory it's actually pretty demeaning to your characters. There are no OEM Mustangs in ST anyway, why not race American Iron? Wouldn't it be nice to race your race car?

The 2014 z28 can beat anything Ford has... but beat it where? Those idiots had to sacrifice the rulebooks to beat the Mustang's. You have a LOOOOOOOOONG way to go in the 1/4 mile. Three words I no longer put together ar "Camaro" and "Quarter Mile". Too bad the z28 isn't a daily driver or sanctioned race car. Most z28 owners won't be interested in racing, simply because they can't register the car anywhere. You wanna see a slaughter, Youtube GT500 vs. ZL1 or Van at Revan and Erik of Torque's road course match. What happened to the fastest Camaro ever built? I though for sure the ZL1 was 3 seconds faster at Milford. That should have been an automatic victory there... Unless someone was just talking out their asses. That is more likely...

Chevy is misrepresenting the z28 in road racing, selling the car as a showroom race car right? It isn't legal anywhere for multiple reasons.

I bring this to the media's attention (and your unsuspecting customers) and I'm the douche bag... I would like to know where I was "Mistaken Again". I figured once Al O. got on Wide Open Throttle and admitted the car wasn't legal for racing, this would have been widely accepted. I guess some people or forged from stupid. Just because Camaro5 has someone glance at the rulebooks and make a wild statement (OEM z28 having no problem in a Non-production car class) doesn't mean I'm wrong. The equipment restrictions are not in effect Nationally but you forgot to take a good look at what was running in those classes.

Racing in Regional for 5 years, you should have known better.

I'll admit, this thread is damaging to the Camaro and z28. Damaging enough to put Al on the spot... Damaging enough for members to start raising questions about how Chevy marketed (and still markets) the z28. It is damaging I'm sure...Which is why your members don't like me... They could have built a legal option, they could try to argue or squeeze the z28 into a class somewhere.

As of right now, the 5th Gen Camaro z28 has successfully avoided the Mustang's 20+ classes it can compete in. Because they really didn't have another legal option that would hold it's own against the Coyote's and Boss 302's. Plain and simple... and sad at the same time...

You tell me, what is the purpose of the 2014 Camaro z28??? In your own words... I want to say racing but, we know better than that.

 

[Norm Peterson]

So it still comes down to the difference between "track-capable"* and "race-series-legal". Or if you prefer, between "track-capable" and "race-legal-in-a-series-where-it-actually-has-better-than-a-snowball's-chance".


* my term; Chevy uses a few more words to say the same thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet.com/culture/article/camaro-z28-returns-2014
Lightweight, nimble and incredibly powerful, the original Z/28 was designed ideally for road racing. The 2014 Z/28 carries the same racing credentials

Anybody who misreads that to mean class-legal - let alone be dominant in that class - is guilty of reading way too much into Chevy's advertising copy. Anybody. The comparison is only between the new car's basic design intent (hard-core road-race oriented) and the original Z/28's raison d'être.


Then again, the sort of person who reads the advertising and stays all starry-eyed over it is not likely to be the same guy who has ever seriously read anybody's rulebook to discover what is or isn't class-legal anywhere. Never mind reading for enough comprehension to settle any curiosity about "grey areas" or if some sort of "de-modding" and sanctioning body approval might be required in order to run it somewhere where it at least stands a chance.

Does this mean that Chevy is misleading its potential customers? Possibly. Maybe even probably. Does that absolve said customers from doing their own due diligence? At this price point, no.

I get that there were high hopes and great expectations for the Z/28 over on Camaro5.com (and you might consider how the people active in that particular sub-forum actually use their cars).

Downstream from that, if we aren't a little careful, something similar could happen here if hopes and expectations grab control of the reins for, say, a Boss-trim S550. Like with the Z/28, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot about any S550 or its road course capability that's public knowledge yet.


FWIW, the Z/28 ride-alongs given to the various media weren't even given at the same intensity. Chris Frezza didn't get nearly as hard of a drive as the guy from slash-whatever, and I feel a little bad for Chris. Kind of aside from this is that the drivers consistently put all four wheels all the way off and to the inside of the curbing in the right hand ess turn. If they really wanted to demonstrate nimble handling, they'd at most only put the right side wheels on the curbing. Of course, if they drove that line they probably wouldn't consistently break 2 minutes flat at the same self-imposed "8/10ths" limit.


Norm
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2008 GT coupe, 5MT, suspension unstockish (mine)
2010 Legacy 2.5GT, 6MT (hers)
2001 Maxima 20AE, 5MT (spare, winter driver)
1995 Mazda 626, 5MT (ex-autocross, other spare, winter, etc., unstock)

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