10 speed S550 Mustang

[JGillis]

I came across this bit of news earlier....

Even though the sixth-gen Mustang is scheduled to hit U.S. dealerships this November, the Blue Oval has a new automatic transmission in the works at the present moment, set to replace the outgoing six-speed unit. The new gearbox will take on General Motors' all-new eight-speed 8L90, fitted to the 2015 Corvette Stingray and other LT1/LT4-engined models.

As it happens, Ford has approached General Motors and said "Hey, if you want to use our new 10-speed auto, then could you return the favor with a nine-speed automatic for front-wheel drive vehicles?" This bit of info comes from AutomotiveNews, which also tells that the Blue Oval is considering an efficient turbo diesel engine for the 2015 Ford F-150 pickup.

Think about it: in terms of transmission technology, Ford is a little bit behind Chrysler and General Motors. Both the Ram 1500 and GM's light-duty pickup truck range use eight-speed autos for improved fuel economy and enhanced towing capabilities, while the 2015 Ford F-150 has only six speeds.

A ZF-developed nine-speed automatic is standard on the 2015 Chrysler 200 mid-size luxury sedan and Jeep Cherokee, while the 2015 Dodge Charger and Challenger use an eight-speed. General Motors' halo sports car – the Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, gets the previously mentioned Hydra-Matic 8L90 eight-speed auto on the 2015 MY. This unit is likely to equip the 2016 Camaro with the 6.2-liter V8 as well. The Ford Mustang? Just six speeds. Yeah, the Blue Oval needs more cogs to swap in order to remain competitive.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...et-10-speed-automatic-transmission-85509.html

I know this joint project to work on a new transmission with GM was announced a while ago but I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on a possible 10 speed Mustang now that rumors are getting stronger.

First, we are talking autos only right?? They better not mess with more gears in manuals. Has anyone driven an 8-10 speed auto? I imagine it must be constantly shifting and might get annoying. Is there that much of a fuel savings to be had?

Sponsored

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not gonna happen any time soon. At earliest expect MY19, and that would probably be just F150 and Escape/Edge (highest margin big AWD cars).

 

[spectremotorsports]

I came across this bit of news earlier....

I know this joint project to work on a new transmission with GM was announced a while ago but I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on a possible 10 speed Mustang now that rumors are getting stronger.

First, we are talking autos only right?? They better not mess with more gears in manuals. Has anyone driven an 8-10 speed auto? I imagine it must be constantly shifting and might get annoying. Is there that much of a fuel savings to be had?

I've driven several 8-speed autos, they don't shift as much as you would think since the final few gears are pretty much for highway speeds, and most sport modes lock you out of the 8th gear. However when in auto mode on the freeway if you really stomp on it, it's a little underwhelming waiting for three downshifts to get into the powerband.

 

[5.0GT]

Yeah Im not digging all these gears. 6 is fine.

 

[Old 5 Oh]

I read (somewhere, C/D I think) that the 10-speed could be ready as soon as next year. And they'll use it wherever they can, including the Mustang and of course the F150. It will be shared with GM, and the GM 10-speed transaxle for FWD will be shared with Ford.

Me? I am just as happy to have the bomb-proof six-speed. A V8 only needs so many gears before there's just not much left to gain. I can only imagine the level of complexity that has to be added to get 10 ratios into a transmission-sized box. To what end? With a torque curve that's relatively flat, it doesn't make a lot of difference to have all those gear. I would think that's especially true with the EB, which has about the same torque from 2,000 rpm to 6,000 rpm.

 

[OppoLock]

Having 10 forward ratios doesn't mean that the first five need to be shortened proportionally. If the 10-speed follows other transmission designs, gears 1-2 will be short to aid launches, while 5th or 6th will hit V-max. The remaining 4-5 gears will be crazy overdrive ratios.

 

[OppoLock]

I read (somewhere, C/D I think) that the 10-speed could be ready as soon as next year. And they'll use it wherever they can, including the Mustang and of course the F150. It will be shared with GM, and the GM 10-speed transaxle for FWD will be shared with Ford.

Me? I am just as happy to have the bomb-proof six-speed. A V8 only needs so many gears before there's just not much left to gain. I can only imagine the level of complexity that has to be added to get 10 ratios into a transmission-sized box. To what end? With a torque curve that's relatively flat, it doesn't make a lot of difference to have all those gear. I would think that's especially true with the EB, which has about the same torque from 2,000 rpm to 6,000 rpm.

Well in an ideal world, you'd want to remain in the peak portion of the curve where the most power is produced. If a transmission can shift quickly enough, and more gears can be added without adding much weight or impacting durability, more is better. You'll be making peak power more often and have more opportunities to increase fuel economy while cruising at any given speed.

The only time where a lower number of gears, relatively speaking, would be preferable would be on a circuit where gearing could be too short for curves and corners.

 

[Wildcat]

Not gonna happen any time soon. At earliest expect MY19, and that would probably be just F150 and Escape/Edge (highest margin big AWD cars).

That would be unfortunate if true. I definitely agree with argument that Ford is lagging way behind in the transmission department. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the 8 speed + transmissions offered by Chrysler and GM offer a pretty nice selling point when combined with other things.

An SS Camaro with a 450 hp LT1 and 8 speed trans would be a pretty attractive product for consumers. For those who aren't committed fans of either brand, it seems a tough sell for a salesman to convince someone to take a 430 hp 6 speed Mustang over a 450 hp 8 speed Camaro unless the new Camaro looks bad, but it's supposed to look very similar to the current generation, and that's a popular design.

 

[scottpe]

Well in an ideal world, you'd want to remain in the peak portion of the curve where the most power is produced. If a transmission can shift quickly enough, and more gears can be added without adding much weight or impacting durability, more is better. You'll be making peak power more often and have more opportunities to increase fuel economy while cruising at any given speed.

^This. Keeping the motor in the peak of its power curve more will result in a faster car, without changing anything else.

 

[Sterling Archer]

That would be unfortunate if true. I definitely agree with argument that Ford is lagging way behind in the transmission department. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the 8 speed + transmissions offered by Chrysler and GM offer a pretty nice selling point when combined with other things.

An SS Camaro with a 450 hp LT1 and 8 speed trans would be a pretty attractive product for consumers. For those who aren't committed fans of either brand, it seems a tough sell for a salesman to convince someone to take a 430 hp 6 speed Mustang over a 450 hp 8 speed Camaro unless the new Camaro looks bad, but it's supposed to look very similar to the current generation, and that's a popular design.

Yeah I agree entirely. I've brought it up several times that even the Chrysler 200 offers a 9 speed standard. But alas I think it's completely unrealistic to expect the 10 speeds next year like some people are hoping.

 

[Old 5 Oh]

For those who aren't committed fans of either brand, it seems a tough sell for a salesman to convince someone to take a 430 hp 6 speed Mustang over a 450 hp 8 speed Camaro unless the new Camaro looks bad.

GM would have to make major strides with the Camaro interior (like what they did for the C7 Corvette) and would have to give up the Transformer bodywork, if they were to turn my head at all. No 8- or 10-speed transmission is that important.

 

[Wildcat]

GM would have to make major strides with the Camaro interior (like what they did for the C7 Corvette) and would have to give up the Transformer bodywork, if they were to turn my head at all. No 8- or 10-speed transmission is that important.

While I personally agree with you on the interior and some of the bodywork, the thrust of my post was that people who aren't biased one way or the other (like you and me) will find that particular combo on the Camaro more attractive.

Both of us obviously like the Mustang better or we wouldn't be on here so much, but I do see the better transmission, when combined with good engine choices, being a strong selling point. Cars are quite competitive now in terms of options and features, so an advantage like an 8 speed could definitely be a tipping point in a buyer's decision, and there are plenty of people who like the Camaro's looks.

 

[Old 5 Oh]

Cars are quite competitive now in terms of options and features, so an advantage like an 8 speed could definitely be a tipping point in a buyer's decision, and there are plenty of people who like the Camaro's looks.

I guess I have to admit some bias these days, even as a former ('85) Camaro owner. I have had a run of Mustangs because I just can't bring myself to buy the Camaro. I came close with the '94 LT1, which really made that year's Mustang look lame. I came closer with the '98 LS1, which was just a monster in the days of the 215 HP 2-valve 4.6. But I bided my time, because that car (aside from its engine) just was not attractive or something I could see myself driving every day. Other than sitting in one at a car show the year it came out, I haven't given the current Camaro a look.

But you are correct, a lot of people seem to like it. My wife says it's "badass." Good thing this is MY car, or I might have to eat all these words, LOL.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Not gonna happen any time soon. At earliest expect MY19.

But alas I think it's completely unrealistic to expect the 10 speeds next year like some people are hoping.

When BMW launched their 8-speed auto to replace the 6-speed, we finally started to see autos that were faster than the manual equivalent, reduce MPG and reduce C02......and many journalists (at least in the UK) rave over the gearbox, so if Ford can get one that works as well as that, they'll have a winner.

As for when, I'd really hope to see it with the first S550 refresh (MY18??......3 years seems to be the norm for Ford refreshes these days). If that co-incided with a DI Coyote, more the better

 

[Papaya]

When Jeep was offering "special" pricing on the 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5 speed last summer, they had the all new GC with the new Pentastar 8 speed on the lot too. We got the new V6 8 speed to the "special" price. Anyway. The 8 speed automatic brings us to 9.3 liter gas on 100km / 30 mpg combined. Not bad for a heavy GC. And for the shifting I have to say, that's like a dream. And yes. We don't push the paddle to the metal with that car. It is my wife's daily driver to work. So a 10 speed automatic would bring an EcoBoost clearly to 35 mpg if not higher IMO.

Sponsored