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RocketGuy3

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I find it funny that the loudest complainers aren’t even shopping the price range this car is in. There’s a very small minority of people this model is built for…the rest of em are in the EcoBoost/GT group of buyers.
Speaking as someone who can afford this car (though I'm not in the market), the pricing doesn't make any sense to me. Why would I spend $150K on a re-badged GT500 with a few extra track bits when even a GTD was already outclassed on a track by a ZR1 costing half the price?

I'll be the first to tell you that laptimes aren't everything, but I just don't get who this car is aimed at. People who refuse to buy anything but the fastest factory-made, American muscle car available? Cuz I guess Ford has that market cornered now.
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SheepDog

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even a GTD was already outclassed on a track by a ZR1 costing half the price?
This times eleventeen. Ford just basically guaranteed that most people looking to spend this kind of money, go buy a midengine GTD/DHSC killer from GM
 

Evolvd

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This times eleventeen. Ford just basically guaranteed that most people looking to spend this kind of money, go buy a midengine GTD/DHSC killer from GM
The Corvette and the Mustang aren’t even the same class of car…I don’t know why people keep comparing them.
 

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The Corvette and the Mustang aren’t even the same class of car…I don’t know why people keep comparing them.
They are now that the price is the same

A base C8 costs the same as a loaded Darkhorse.
A Z06 costs the same as a DHSC

In either scenario, the Corvette will destroy its cost comparative counterpart.
 

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Epiphany

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...GTD was already outclassed on a track by a ZR1...
The car is the car and has no idea how much money is attached to it. The GTD has a much higher center of gravity as well as being the fatter of the two. The GTD also has ~250HP less than the ZR1. On a 13 mile stretch it came in about 1.5 seconds slower. This is outclassed?
 

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They are now that the price is the same

A base C8 costs the same as a loaded Darkhorse.
A Z06 costs the same as a DHSC

In either scenario, the Corvette will destroy its cost comparative counterpart.
Ok. I could compare a CTS-V to a Porsche 911 but they aren’t the same class simply because a loaded V is the same price as a base 911 Turbo….

It’s apples and oranges. Corvette has NEVER been a direct competitor to the Mustang. If cost is all people are concerned about they are way cheaper options. But then that destroys the narrative.
 

RocketGuy3

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The car is the car and has no idea how much money is attached to it. The GTD has a much higher center of gravity as well as being the fatter of the two. The GTD also has ~250HP less than the ZR1. On a 13 mile stretch it came in about 1.5 seconds slower. This is outclassed?
I'm not sure I understand your point. So you mean every metric in the book of performance favors the ZR1? And... therefore I shouldn't fault the GTD for being slower and costing twice as much?
 

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I'm not sure I understand your point. So you mean every metric in the book of performance favors the ZR1? And... therefore I shouldn't fault the GTD for being slower and costing twice as much?
Sure, if all you care about dollar per horsepower….but if that’s the case you’re wasting your money on both cars. Speed and Cost are not the same thing, by any metric.
 

RocketGuy3

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Sure, if all you care about dollar per horsepower….but if that’s the case you’re wasting your money on both cars. Speed and Cost are not the same thing, by any metric.
Like I said, I agree there are other things to consider, and normally I hate the magazine racing that's prevalent on these forums. Cars are more than their lap times... but I think the rest of my reply to you might overlap with your other message:


Ok. I could compare a CTS-V to a Porsche 911 but they aren’t the same class simply because a loaded V is the same price as a base 911 Turbo….

It’s apples and oranges. Corvette has NEVER been a direct competitor to the Mustang. If cost is all people are concerned about they are way cheaper options. But then that destroys the narrative.
I disagree. They are both performance-oriented American V8 sports cars. They are built differently and have some degree of unique appeal and practicality differences, but especially as you get into the upper trims of the Mustang (Dark Horse+), the likelihood increases of someone cross-shopping the two because they have the same use case (street bragging rights and/or track day fun).

And no one is purely talking about cost, but about value. If a car costs $500K, but is more fun and faster than million dollar hypercars of the day, it might be a great value. I don't see the value in a DHSC Track Pack for any prospective buyer.

Who would prefer a DHSC over a Z06, and why? Is the extra trunk space really that meaningful to people in this income bracket? Will people buy the Mustang just because they think it looks better? Is Ford hoping it's just more fun to drive in some esoteric way that will be exceedingly difficult to convince the masses of?
 

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robvas

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The car is the car and has no idea how much money is attached to it. The GTD has a much higher center of gravity as well as being the fatter of the two. The GTD also has ~250HP less than the ZR1. On a 13 mile stretch it came in about 1.5 seconds slower. This is outclassed?
Not so fast. Nurbugring times don't really mean shit. Let's go same driver, same day, blah blah.

The GTD got smoked by the ZR1 at Sonoma Raceway (2.5 mile course) by 3.7 seconds and at Autobahn Country Club South Circuit by 3 seconds (2.1 mile course)

And gets beat by a whole second in the 1/4 mile....

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SheepDog

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Ok. I could compare a CTS-V to a Porsche 911 but they aren’t the same class simply because a loaded V is the same price as a base 911 Turbo….

It’s apples and oranges. Corvette has NEVER been a direct competitor to the Mustang. If cost is all people are concerned about they are way cheaper options. But then that destroys the narrative.
Uh A base 911 turbo ( they only have the Turbo S) starts at 270k. A fully loaded CT5V blackwing is around 150k. Price should always be the determining factor when comparing two vehicles. If a Mustang costs as much as a C8, then the Mustang isn’t a good value when the C8 beats it in every metric. Ford is the one who has now entered corvette territory, because thy overpriced their offering. Why would you buy a DarkHorse when a C8 costs the same, looks better, goes faster, stops better, and will smash the Mustang on a track?
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RocketGuy3

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Uh A base 911 turbo ( they only have the Turbo S) starts at 270k. A fully loaded CT5V blackwing is around 150k. Price should always be the determining factor when comparing two vehicles. If a Mustang costs as much as a C8, then the Mustang isn’t a good value when the C8 beats it in every metric. Ford is the one who has now entered corvette territory, because thy overpriced their offering. Why would you buy a DarkHorse when a C8 costs the same, looks better, goes faster, stops better, and will smash the Mustang on a track?
TBH, while I'm still on the same page as you when it comes to the DHSC or the GTD, I certainly still see the appeal of a standard Dark Horse over a base C8, even if the C8 is faster... The DH is far more practical (at least a somewhat useable backseat, more trunk space, easier ingress/egress, better touring car), possibly better steering feedback, and most importantly: a manual transmission.

However, the further up in the price spectrum you move up with Mustangs, the less sense they make because the less those differences matter (if the differences even exist, like you can't get a DHSC with a stick, and I'm not sure the DHSC TP even has a backseat).
 

80FoxCoupe

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Wow darknhorse sc msrp.... Ive come to the conclusion that I'm not a new mustang buyer. I'm not a new GT buyer and Def not a dark horse sc buyer. Im fairly certain I'm not a new car buyer in general. In all honesty with prices of used cars and parts, I may not even be an enthusiast anymore. I think my 10 year old gt and 6 year old f150 is it for me. Probably hang it up and go back to motorcycles.
 

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I'm not sure I understand your point. So you mean every metric in the book of performance favors the ZR1? And... therefore I shouldn't fault the GTD for being slower and costing twice as much?
Again, the car knows not what it cost to build. If you want talk finances or economics, ok. But if you can be honest about the cars themselves alone, the weaker, fatass, kept up with an uber high horsepower, lean machine over a length of 13 twisty miles. And you claim the GTD was outclassed?

Not so fast. Nurbugring times don't really mean shit. Let's go same driver, same day, blah blah.

The GTD got smoked by the ZR1 at Sonoma Raceway (2.5 mile course) by 3.7 seconds and at Autobahn Country Club South Circuit by 3 seconds (2.1 mile course)

And gets beat by a whole second in the 1/4 mile....

savageese.webp


Sonoma Raceway.webp
I wouldn't expect the heavier car with quite a bit less power to win on a tight circuit (relative to a 13 mile stretch), would you?
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