Is This Clutch Protection?

[SplawnDarts]

New 2019 GT PP1 manual convertible, no tune or mods except for new wheels and tires and this happened on the stock wheels/tires too. 250 miles on the odometer.

I have experience driving manual, but it's been a while this is my first "rolling computer" manual car with throttle by wire etc. and I will admit this clutch is not the easiest.

I'm running into a problem where the car acts as though it's hitting the rev limiter at low RPM in 1st or 2nd gear. At between 2K and 3K RPM, it feels like throttle is cut completely and then comes back in repeatedly, resulting in a bucking/surging feeling as long as I keep on the throttle. This bucking is very dramatic. It's not something anyone could miss or find acceptable.
- it usually happens when I'm trying to get on the gas a little bit say to merge, but nothing insane
- it only happens immediately after gear shifts, or clutching thinking I'm going to shift and then changing my mind (a stoplight light changes, etc.). It may be that I'm getting into the gas a bit too fast or not getting 100% off the clutch fast enough. Hard to reconstruct that part but it often happens during a turn where there's a lot going on.
- the condition seems to be cleared by letting off the throttle and clutch completely, and then re-applying throttle
- no CEL
- I don't think this is traction control - it's on clean dry pavement at reasonable RPMs with good tires and motivated but not insane throttle inputs and it doesn't feel like brakes are being applied. It's WAY too dramatic and throttle oriented for traction control IMO.
- This happens in both normal and sport mode. I haven't had it happen in track mode, but I haven't driven much in track mode so that may be a coincidence.

The only possibility other than a problem with a car I've come up with is that it might be the "clutch protection". But I haven't found a clear description of what it is that clutch protection does, only that it's sometimes modified in tunes. Is there anyone who can clarify if the behavior I'm seeing might be due to clutch protection, and if so what triggers and deactivates it?

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[Lime1GT]

I would just take it back to the dealer for warranty. That's what it's mainly for, to cover parts that may have early failure. I'm thinking fuel or electronic throttle issue.

 

[Elp_jc]

I got that bucking you're talking about once so far. It was when a light turn green, and rather than leaving tranny in 2nd (which I'll do next time), I put it in first, and then I gave it gas, it started bucking like crazy. Ha ha. I released the throttle before applying gas, like I always do, but guess in that scenario, the car wants the clutch slipped a little, I guess. Hasn't happened again, so obviously not a mechanical issue. I've read of throttle-body issues, but not on new 2019s, like yours and mine. It seems like you just need to get used to how to drive this car. Like you said, the clutch is the trickiest I've had in my decades of owning manuals. At 800+ miles, I drive it mostly super smoothly already. And yes, the best technique is to release clutch completely before applying throttle. The tricky part is at low speeds, where it's better to keep a higher gear, to avoid the bucking.

I'd wait to take it in, since I do not enjoy other people driving and dogging my car. But if you feel like something is wrong with your car, I'd ask to drive another car yourself first, to make sure it's the car, and not you. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[SplawnDarts]

I did an experiment and managed to reproduce the problem. It is indeed caused by failing to get 100% off the clutch and applying more throttle than it likes in that case. Which makes me think it is in fact "clutch protection".

Given that, I suspect it's not a defect in the car. It shouldn't be too difficult to avoid. But I can see why tuners might tune it out.

 

[SplawnDarts]

Move the seat closer. You are probably hitting the gas sliding back in the seat then coming forward back on the gas. Just adjust the seat until you have some bend in your knee. Overtime you will get used to it.

Unfortunately (at least for this) I'm 6'6" tall so the seat's going to be all the way back and all the way down. I suspect the position of the clutch pedal and steering wheel is part of what caused me to ride the clutch a bit.

 

[GT Pony]

I have experience driving manual, but it's been a while this is my first "rolling computer" manual car with throttle by wire etc. and I will admit this clutch is not the easiest.

Put the much softer Steeda clutch assist spring in the clutch pedal, and it will help a lot in modulating the clutch.

 

[SplawnDarts]

I've spent quite a bit of time and gas investigating this, and here's what I now know and what seems to be a solution:

• The most performance-oriented of the local ford dealers looked at it and pronounced it normal
• I am still not 100% sure this is what Ford calls clutch protection, but it definitely is something clutch related that the computer is measuring and deciding to cut throttle
• I think I was wrong about what to do to avoid making the computer unhappy. It appears it becomes unhappy when the throttle input/rpm is fairly high and the clutch is let out too soon/fast. So I was doing exactly the wrong thing to "fix" it. It appears this happens even when the tac and clutch feel indicate the clutch is hooked up.
  
• I have now done 50+ quasi-spirited launches (>0.6g) in a row and not had the problem, and the "solution" is that I launch at 2000+rpm and don't let out the very last of the clutch until it comes back up through 3500rpm regardless of when it feels like the clutch has hooked up before then. It lies ;) I have also done a 0.85g launch with the same procedure at about 3500 RPM which is basically the tire limit.

I wanted to get this ironed out before my upcoming supercharger install, and at this point I'm comfortable that there's a way to drive the car that gives good performance.

 

[Elp_jc]

So you know, there's no such thing as 'clutch protection' . What you're experiencing might be a fueling issue, TC/stability-control intervention, clutch idiosyncrasies, etc. Or a combination of any of them. But it has nothing to do with protecting the clutch; you could fry it, if you want .

 

[SplawnDarts]

So you know, there's no such thing as 'clutch protection' . What you're experiencing might be a fueling issue, TC/stability-control intervention, clutch idiosyncrasies, etc. Or a combination of any of them. But it has nothing to do with protecting the clutch; you could fry it, if you want .

Given that I've had discussions with fairly senior ford techs about it, I'm not sure what to make of your comment. And given that I can easily produce a situation where my car's computer cuts throttle based on manipulation of the clutch, I guess it doesn't really matter what you call it. But it's not traction control - I'm no where near the tire traction limit when this happens.

 

[Elp_jc]

It's simply something else man. If you can dump the clutch on a launch, common sense should tell you what you're experiencing it's not 'clutch protection'. Besides, there's no rheostat on the clutch, so the ECU has no idea where the pedal is, except at the very bottom (to be able to start the engine). You could have a throttle body issue; there have been several reports on that lately on the forum. And both fueling and clutch are tricky on this car, so your method could be exacerbating the issue as well. Try driving another car, or let an experience driver drive yours and see if you really have an issue, or if it's the monkey behind the wheel. Ha ha. And no shame on that; I haven't mastered my car either (working on that).

 

[GT Pony]

• I'am still not 100% sure this is what Ford calls clutch protection, but it definitely is something clutch related that the computer is measuring and deciding to cut throttle.

I'd think the ECU is programmed to limit the torque output (by controlling the throttle position) under certain situations - ??

 

[m3incorp]

The stock clutch spring tends to lead to having to slip the clutch in the situation you described. I've been a manual drive for more years than I am willing to admit. I had mine buck a couple of time when getting on it slowly (not something I usually do ). I was leery of changing out the spring to the Steeda spring, but it seems to have a slightly better feel and I have not had it buck since installing. It's cheap so worth a try. What I don't like about it, is after having gotten used to stock spring, it almost feels like the clutch pedal is not coming back up to it's original height, but I checked and it actually is. Stopping on a steep hill with the stock clutch spring and "hill assist" turned off, would result in a very vague feel and the need to give it way more gas than normal and a lot of slipping of the clutch. The Steeda feels much better to me. I am not advocating the Steeda spring but saying that is what worked for me. There will be many who have not tried it that will come on and say no way should you install it. To each, their own.

 

[ice445]

Are you sure you're not experiencing rev hang? My car had a noticeable amount when the engine was breaking in, now not so much unless you intentionally try to reproduce it by flooring it to a high RPM, then letting off, then going to up shift after a few seconds. It holds the throttle open to clean up the rest of the fuel you asked for going WOT to make the cats and emissions happy. Actually watch the tach before you upshift, if you clutch in and the RPM needle doesn't drop, that's your problem. It will create a bucking feeling every time because you're basically doing a rolling clutch dump.

 

[Rapid Red]

Check this video out, enlightening, With the new spring, peddle has a more consistent feel in and out. Gave the Ford spring. 1k miles of seat time to adjust to the feel.




To remove the Ford spring grind a notch in the jaw of the channel lock needle nose. You can thank me later.

 

[m3incorp]

You could be right...though I only experienced rev hang during high rpm shifts.

Are you sure you're not experiencing rev hang? My car had a noticeable amount when the engine was breaking in, now not so much unless you intentionally try to reproduce it by flooring it to a high RPM, then letting off, then going to up shift after a few seconds. It holds the throttle open to clean up the rest of the fuel you asked for going WOT to make the cats and emissions happy. Actually watch the tach before you upshift, if you clutch in and the RPM needle doesn't drop, that's your problem. It will create a bucking feeling every time because you're basically doing a rolling clutch dump.

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