GT350 1/4 mile

[Sb31767]

Have driven in a pp model regular and trust me it is a 11 second car

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[Erik427]

Where did you hear or read this? This is a first


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I heard it on one of the many videos that were released showing interviews with Ford engineers.

 

[Erik427]

It's not quite that simple when you are dealing with emissions and the EPA. 25hp automatically means different fuel/timing tables and thus slightly different emissions output and fuel economy. Ford can't just sign up for one set of standards and "unlock" the ECM for the actual car.

Notice how well that is going over for VW?

It's called sand bagging and how do you know the emissions were not met?

 

[thePill]

It's called sand bagging and how do you know the emissions were not met?

To be honest Erik, I heard they were sitting on close to 550hp and 440tq but it was fuel economy that held them back... not emissions...

I feel that Ford will drop the 5.2 down to a 5.0. I initially believed this would be done by simply decreasing the bore. It would be the cheapest way... Although, many argued that the Voodoo would benefit more by reducing the existing stroke... a more traditional route... I spoke of the potential benefits on here before.

Not only do I think the current Voodoo is capable of 550/440, I believe the extra .2 liters was final for a few reasons.

1.) The stock stroke of the Coyote may have needed the extra clearance.

2.) The initial R&D cost was already met, a short stroke Voodoo comes later.

3.) Cheaper power with no Direct Injection/Dual Port Injection.


Once Dual Port Injection is ready to go, I believe the stroke will drop as will the displacement. Depending on how much power Duel Port Injection adds, I'm debating if they will try a 289/4.7 liter. The 5 liter FPC is a HUGE milestone that they likely won't abandon.


The goal here now is beat the Gas Guzzler Tax and save the Customer the $1600 (to reinvest in the model more likely). The Dual Port Injection is probably worth another 25hp, the RS uses it I believe. We may see a solid 40-50hp bump and only lose a little dropping to a 5.0...

The RPM's could reach 9000, we could see a 550hp/450tq outta the Voodoo Child 5.0 bud... and it could free up $1600 extra R&D dollars with a 26/31 Hwy/Cty MPG rating.

 

[krt22]

It's called sand bagging and how do you know the emissions were not met?

Please look up the latest VW news and you will see what I am talking about. Ford cant sign up for one set of settings/standards and then deviate from them.

Ford advertises absolutely ZERO different between the engine/output between the GT350 and GT350R, meaning they are likely bundled together under the same set of emissions testing and fuel economy standards. This is not just with the EPA, but at the state level with local agencies (mainly CARB here in CA which more and more states are now using as a bench mark). So ford cant tell all of these government agencies one thing on how the engine will perform and then cook the books for a handful of cars to "sand bag". They stand to gain very little from this sort of tactic and could be fined or completely banned from selling the car if they are ever caught.

If there were a measurable output between the two cars (and 24hp is more than measurable), ford would mention it, period. If the car is under-rated, that is one thing, but it would apply to all of the GT350s made

 

[thePill]

Please look up the latest VW news and you will see what I am talking about. Ford cant sign up for one set of settings/standards and then deviate from them.

Ford advertises absolutely ZERO different between the engine/output between the GT350 and GT350R, meaning they are likely bundled together under the same set of emissions testing and fuel economy standards. This is not just with the EPA, but at the state level with local agencies (mainly CARB here in CA which more and more states are now using as a bench mark). So ford cant tell all of these government agencies one thing on how the engine will perform and then cook the books for a handful of cars to "sand bag". They stand to gain very little from this sort of tactic and could be fined or completely banned from selling the car if they are ever caught.

If there were a measurable output between the two cars (and 24hp is more than measurable), ford would mention it, period. If the car is under-rated, that is one thing, but it would apply to all of the GT350s made

I agree, they are all probably sandwiched under the same "GT350". Most likely a benefit of considering such things as packages (1LE, R, Z51, Z07).

 

[stanglife]

To be honest Erik, I heard they were sitting on close to 550hp and 440tq but it was fuel economy that held them back... not emissions...

I feel that Ford will drop the 5.2 down to a 5.0. I initially believed this would be done by simply decreasing the bore. It would be the cheapest way... Although, many argued that the Voodoo would benefit more by reducing the existing stroke... a more traditional route... I spoke of the potential benefits on here before.

Not only do I think the current Voodoo is capable of 550/440, I believe the extra .2 liters was final for a few reasons.

1.) The stock stroke of the Coyote may have needed the extra clearance.

2.) The initial R&D cost was already met, a short stroke Voodoo comes later.

3.) Cheaper power with no Direct Injection/Dual Port Injection.


Once Dual Port Injection is ready to go, I believe the stroke will drop as will the displacement. Depending on how much power Duel Port Injection adds, I'm debating if they will try a 289/4.7 liter. The 5 liter FPC is a HUGE milestone that they likely won't abandon.


The goal here now is beat the Gas Guzzler Tax and save the Customer the $1600 (to reinvest in the model more likely). The Dual Port Injection is probably worth another 25hp, the RS uses it I believe. We may see a solid 40-50hp bump and only lose a little dropping to a 5.0...

The RPM's could reach 9000, we could see a 550hp/450tq outta the Voodoo Child 5.0 bud... and it could free up $1600 extra R&D dollars with a 26/31 Hwy/Cty MPG rating.

One thing to consider is that - NA mod motors have been being built as "big-bore" motors for a while and by doing so, unshrouds the valves, leading to significant improvements. the 4-valve mod motors since the beginning, have had their valves crowded near the edge of the bore.

 

[MadCow]

I can guarantee the motors make more than 526HP. When the cars get on the chassis dyno I think 450whp will be the norm. But I won't be a bit surprised to see 460-480whp. Now some dynos are more generous than others. And even on the same dyno some cars are just stronger than others, so there will be some variance. But most performance cars nowadays seem to have a nice margin of error built in to insure every car makes advertised HP.

 

[Nataphen]

I'd say that there will only be about a 10% loss to the wheels in this car because of all the lightweight parts used in the drivetrain. Possibly less, but that seems like a reasonable place to start since the manual 5.0s are sitting right around the 10% mark. That means we could be seeing 470-475whp as the norm for a stock GT350 on a typical DJ dyno.

 

[thePill]

One thing to consider is that - NA mod motors have been being built as "big-bore" motors for a while and by doing so, unshrouds the valves, leading to significant improvements. the 4-valve mod motors since the beginning, have had their valves crowded near the edge of the bore.

Ah, valve shrouding is a huge variable to consider. I'm wondering just how much room is saved. One thing is for certain, the Voodoo does have larger intake valves and the extra 0.2 was quickly filled with larger valves.

The 5.2 could have only used the larger valves because it had a larger bore. When a 5 liter FPC was so impossible before, you have to wonder why the .2.

As I said, I think the 5.2 was a quick and easy response for something. With Direct Injection/Dual Port Injection, a 5.0 Voodoo could make due with slightly smaller valves (and probably equal shrouding). But I agree, the 5.2 was an easier answer to 525hp/430tq than a 5.0 liter Voodoo. As you pointed out, the valves and less valve shroud was one of the contributing factors, along with the extra displacement.

Very good point, a huge topic to consider if a displacement drop is incoming.

 

[9secondko]

Steve on SVT said the Ford engineers hinted that a Tri-Y design header would not only add hp, but make the sound even more incredible.

The factory headers are choking it.

But they are also what makes it sound so great.

I'm still waiting to see some real performance headers come out specifically for the Voodoo. I'm guessing that the resulting power increase will be quite worth it... Even if the sound is decidedly less "American."

 

[thePill]

One thing to consider is that - NA mod motors have been being built as "big-bore" motors for a while and by doing so, unshrouds the valves, leading to significant improvements. the 4-valve mod motors since the beginning, have had their valves crowded near the edge of the bore.

...I completely ignored the fact the 5.0 would be achieved through stroke reduction. The large 5.2 valves and bore would still be used.

This could very well be a 600hp engine once Dual Port Injection is adopted. That alone could eliminate the Gas Guzzler Tax and clear up any emissions issues. The full 550/440 potential could be unlocked PLUS the 40-50hp from DPI. The losses from the reduced displacement could potentially be made back up with savings in rotational mass and parasitic losses. A smaller, lighter crankshaft is responsible for some pretty decent numbers looking at the horsepower it robs. I'm betting the 15-25hp a 5.0 Voodoo lost in displacement reduction COULD be mitigated by some savings in parasitic losses with a lighter crankshaft. It's all theoretical but I think it holds water. A 5.0 Voodoo would produce around 500-515hp as it stands right now, just using the appropriate stroke in there. Chances are the difference between the 5.2 and a 5.0 could be even smaller in terms of peak horsepower and it would reflect across the curve. The only advantage a 5.0 Coyote would have without DI/DPI and a short stroke is a dramatic increase in redline and peak HP. It could spin to 9200rpn for all we know...


I don't think a Short Stroke 5.0 Voodoo was in the budget nor was Dual Port Injection. I think Dual Port Injection could take a 510-520hp 5.0 Voodoo to a 550-570hp engine... If DPI eliminates the Gas Guzzler Tax, we could see the more aggressive tune the current 5.2 Voodoo couldn't adopt.

I have a feeling that the Voodoo may have the potential to be a better engine than Ferrari's. I'm talking on every level... Lighter, cheaper, more horsepower, more torque, larger displacement, better MPG's and better Power Per Liter than the Ferrari 4.5... I can't even remember if it is a 4.5...

 

[Mountain376]

Ah, valve shrouding is a huge variable to consider. I'm wondering just how much room is saved. One thing is for certain, the Voodoo does have larger intake valves and the extra 0.2 was quickly filled with larger valves.

The 5.2 could have only used the larger valves because it had a larger bore. When a 5 liter FPC was so impossible before, you have to wonder why the .2.

As I said, I think the 5.2 was a quick and easy response for something. With Direct Injection/Dual Port Injection, a 5.0 Voodoo could make due with slightly smaller valves (and probably equal shrouding). But I agree, the 5.2 was an easier answer to 525hp/430tq than a 5.0 liter Voodoo. As you pointed out, the valves and less valve shroud was one of the contributing factors, along with the extra displacement.

Very good point, a huge topic to consider if a displacement drop is incoming.

The reason for the added 0.2L displacement was because it was seen that, from a cylinder head flow standpoint in the broad sense, going to larger valves than the Roadrunner and newer Coyote showed large benefits. The larger valves required the bore to get bigger. This was stated by Adam Christian at Ford.

 

[bpracer]

The reason for the added 0.2L displacement was because it was seen that, from a cylinder head flow standpoint in the broad sense, going to larger valves than the Roadrunner and newer Coyote showed large benefits. The larger valves required the bore to get bigger. This was stated by Adam Christian at Ford.

Isn't this a bit of chicken and egg? They got rid of the cylinder liners and used the plasma whatever deposition instead, to get a larger bore. That allowed them to put bigger valves in the heads. The architecture of the engine is unchanged as far as head studs spacing, etc as far as I know.

 

[wproctor411]

I want an FPC voodoo in Factory Five kit car or something under 2500lbs. I need that kind of rush right now.

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