GT350 vs. Z/28

[Nasty99z28]

Wrong. A loaded GTPP like mine is 3815lbs. Been scaled many times and posted here on the forums what that weight is.

What did Ford do wrong? PLEASE explain? The S550 is kicking the shit out of the 200lb lighter Boss302 by over 2 seconds a lap. The new GT350R is faster than the z28. The GT350 with track pack is as fast as the 911 Carrera and Z51 optioned vette. Again, explain what they are doing wrong?:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

These weight debates are hysterical. Go by a Miata or yugo if you want 2000lbs. Buy a kit cobra with 600hp and 2350lbs.

We are also pretty sure, the aluminum will make its way to the Mustang in the near term. Probably 2018 if I had to guess. Maybe 2017 if they expedite, etc. but we don't truly know what is on their road map.

The great weight debates all stemmed from thepill and his 3400-3500lb prediction and slamming of the heavy camaro. Now that's it officially heavier in every v8 model its kinda funny. Still a awesome car performance wise just not as light as promised from someone with "the know". So in short blame your boy pill.

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[Erik427]

So then why compare the 350 to a z28?

Nope because now both will be one the newest chassis they offer. And yes its on a 4dr chassis yet again and the fact that the last one did so well against a purpose built chassis (mustang) that's impressive. So many people said it would never handle and it silenced them all. Now the newest gen will do that yet again.


That extra heft kinda needed it. Like a real exspensive bandaid.


Bingo.

I try to compare the motors only. Kinda hard without them being on dyno's.

 

[thePill]

The great weight debates all stemmed from thepill and his 3400-3500lb prediction and slamming of the heavy camaro. Now that's it officially heavier in every v8 model its kinda funny. Still a awesome car performance wise just not as light as promised from someone with "the know". So in short blame your boy pill.

This is no laughing matter, the Mustang and Corvette will continue to grow in both weight, size and MSRP. I don't want a 3800lbs Mustang or a 3500lbs Corvette...

This topic is t hysterical, it's a dead serious topic. Without expressing great displeasure in vehicle weights, manufacturers wouldn't put forth the effort to keep the weight down.


All that aside, we will not be seeing a 3700lbs Camaro, nor a 3750lbs Camaro... at this point, I highly doubt the Camaro can get below the GT350's 3760lbs, especially when the ATS-V is about the same.


Will it be hysterical when the same shit happens to the Camaro? To me it will be... The GT350, Z51, ATS-V and M4 have all pushed the limits... this is as light as a front engine, rear drive vehicles get today.

I'm sure Chevy will tell everyone that it's 3700lbs (est.) yet it will be over 3800 in every test possible...

Then the year over year upgrades come in, the performance upgrades... more weight...

 

[thePill]

I am sad to announce that one of the Camaro's "lowdown" fans passed away today. I have been arguing with him for almost 6 years...

R.I.P. LOWDOWN


You will be missed...

 

[thePill]

Rumor Update: Laguna Seca

I posted Laguna Seca lap times up a few months ago, I'm not sure what time I said. However, I am pleased to announce that the GT350R has matched the GT-R and 911 GT3 at Laguna Seca. I believe I put it in the 1:36 range, which is just as fast as the Boss 302R in the last race at Laguna in qualifying...

That is incredibly amazing...

 

[Nasty99z28]

This is no laughing matter, the Mustang and Corvette will continue to grow in both weight, size and MSRP. I don't want a 3800lbs Mustang or a 3500lbs Corvette...

This topic is t hysterical, it's a dead serious topic. Without expressing great displeasure in vehicle weights, manufacturers wouldn't put forth the effort to keep the weight down.


All that aside, we will not be seeing a 3700lbs Camaro, nor a 3750lbs Camaro... at this point, I highly doubt the Camaro can get below the GT350's 3760lbs, especially when the ATS-V is about the same.


Will it be hysterical when the same shit happens to the Camaro? To me it will be... The GT350, Z51, ATS-V and M4 have all pushed the limits... this is as light as a front engine, rear drive vehicles get today.

I'm sure Chevy will tell everyone that it's 3700lbs (est.) yet it will be over 3800 in every test possible...

Then the year over year upgrades come in, the performance upgrades... more weight...

Weight itsnt determined by our voice. You of all people should know its more based on how its built how much it cost and what's required by law to have in the car. None of that is because we the people have spoken.

Was it hysterical when you were off by 100-200lbs on every one of the v8 s550 models?

It'll probably be over 3800lbs just because as we all know the mag's always test them with every option checked. So while its is a valid test and it doesn't show the true potential of the weight or performance.

Now that being said I'm not sold on the whole 200lb loss on the SS version but I also fully expect to loss atleast a 100lbs which puts it within a big dinner of the stang and I'm OK with that.

 

[thePill]

Weight itsnt determined by our voice. You of all people should know its more based on how its built how much it cost and what's required by law to have in the car. None of that is because we the people have spoken.

Was it hysterical when you were off by 100-200lbs on every one of the v8 s550 models?

It'll probably be over 3800lbs just because as we all know the mag's always test them with every option checked. So while its is a valid test and it doesn't show the true potential of the weight or performance.

Now that being said I'm not sold on the whole 200lb loss on the SS version but I also fully expect to loss atleast a 100lbs which puts it within a big dinner of the stang and I'm OK with that.

Lightweight coupes are just not possible anymore, pre-2011 maybe. Things have changed drastically in the last 2 years. Initially, Ford saw 200lbs... I'm sure of it because Ford saw the weight... but it vanished... It was always a prediction, although based on a CD4 platform too mind you. Once that was debunked, all bets were off. Even then, I'm not even sure a CD4 would have helped.

Difference is, making blind predictions off a CD4 platform 2 years ago vs. debunking a 3700-3750lbs SS today. We have seen Alpha weights both ATS and CTS. I have already seen the standard equipment list and all of us have access to equipment weights from other cars.

Making a blind prediction on speculation, old information with no knowledge of equipment is one thing. Having tons of information and pre-existing examples are another.

From what we know now, it will be around 3780-3820 to start, as in standard 1SS. Looking at how it's optioned and its size, I'd be surprised if the base SS can match the GTPP Premium at 3820lbs... Only the front brakes and stereo are heavier in the GTPP Premium... You do realize that?

The wheels/tires/IRS, platform, panels, engine, transmission, drive/half-shafts, front and rear seats, more airbags and more coolers...

I can't see 200lbs from the 3908lbs anywhere...

To me, it's a HUGE mistake advertising weight loss. Chevy's 200lbs weight loss is a fairy tale, only brought about to reserve market share while the Mustang is selling.

 

[thePill]

Rumor:

(I can't believe this is true)

The GT350R reached speeds of 140mph at Gratten!!!

That has to be impossible... If true, it's getting close to 160mph at Sebring and is close to topping out at Nurburgring.

140mph was old GT500 VIR speeds...

 

[thePill]

Voodoo engine is 10lbs lighter than Ferrari's 4.5. Need engine weights... I assume it's lighter than the Coyote, could be lighter than the LS3. The LS2 was around 400lbs... Coyote is 430lbs. Somewhere between 400-430 I'd say.

 

[Shawnski]

Weight

I can appreciate ones desire to "weigh" in on the difference in weights between the G5 vs. G6 Mustang (and how previous gen owners are smug with their lower weight) and the new G6 Camaro vs. G6 Mustang.

Is weight the end-zone to victory? Clearly not always but it’s something we laymen can point to and say, aha! You’re too heavy! Did we really believe the GT350 was somehow going to be as light as a C7 'vette or even Boss 302?

Without torque multiplication (gearing) low weight is negligible. Without platform rigidity low weight is dubious. Without superior suspension geometry to control pitch, dive and live axle gyrations (all prior Gen 6 Mustangs) low weight is not a substitute.

If you look at the best cars in history: Mechanical strength and engineering is uber alas. Colin Chapman's cars (Lotus) were notoriously fragile (and super lightweight). German cars are notoriously overbuilt and rarely considered lightweight. American cars are usually broad of beam and always robust.

Even a low content car like a Fox body Mustang has limitations in taking weight out; it’s beefy in the frame and body with an extremely crude suspension...

 

[thePill]

I can appreciate ones desire to "weigh" in on the difference in weights between the G5 vs. G6 Mustang (and how previous gen owners are smug with their lower weight) and the new G6 Camaro vs. G6 Mustang.

Is weight the end-zone to victory? Clearly not always but it’s something we laymen can point to and say, aha! You’re too heavy! Did we really believe the GT350 was somehow going to be as light as a C7 'vette or even Boss 302?

Without torque multiplication (gearing) low weight is negligible. Without platform rigidity low weight is dubious. Without superior suspension geometry to control pitch, dive and live axle gyrations (all prior Gen 6 Mustangs) low weight is not a substitute.

If you look at the best cars in history: Mechanical strength and engineering is uber alas. Colin Chapman's cars (Lotus) were notoriously fragile (and super lightweight). German cars are notoriously overbuilt and rarely considered lightweight. American cars are usually broad of beam and always robust.

Even a low content car like a Fox body Mustang has limitations in taking weight out; it’s beefy in the frame and body with an extremely crude suspension...

From what I gather from the initial ride-alongs, the car is under extreme lateral load. The S197 would have twisted or lifted under the same circumstances, even the CTSC cars displayed this often. Until Ford decides to literally glue an aluminum front section to a UHSS steel cowl/firewall like BMW, 3650 is as light as it gets. But, we plan on wrecking these cars and need to savage what we can. I'm not looking forward to replacing an Aluminum front section. Carbon Fiber roof? Sure, rad support, fenders, doors... ok...

We can't service that kind of repair yet. We can use the glue BUT, sometimes that work is dealership only. As in, you can't order a replacement part without a dealership ID. I'm scared that is the future... We can weld Aluminum but, an Aluminum frame section is....

 

[garagelogic]

Rumor Update: Laguna Seca

I posted Laguna Seca lap times up a few months ago, I'm not sure what time I said. However, I am pleased to announce that the GT350R has matched the GT-R and 911 GT3 at Laguna Seca. I believe I put it in the 1:36 range, which is just as fast as the Boss 302R in the last race at Laguna in qualifying...

That is incredibly amazing...

If that time holds water, that's considerably faster than Probst's 1:37:82 lap there in the z/28. Impressive.

 

[w3rkn]

Carbon Fiber roof, drive shaft, wheels, hood & doors...

Over the upcoming years, those will be the first to transition to lighter materials... then manufactures will start to use CF structures. (ie: subfloor, etc)



I think over the next 5 years, you will start to see American sport cars turning to lighter materials because a 3,400lbs Mustang is sooo desirable over a 3,800 mustang. The Corvette doesn't feel like a Vette anymore, you can't squirt the back out like before, it dose not rotate like before... it's mass has reached critical. So might as well buy a GT350 instead. (IMO)


Cars have enough HP now, they need to learn how to be athletic and the GT350 is an uber start.

 

[Simon]

Carbon Fiber roof, drive shaft, wheels, hood & doors...

Over the upcoming years, those will be the first to transition to lighter materials... then manufactures will start to use CF structures. (ie: subfloor, etc)



I think over the next 5 years, you will start to see American sport cars turning to lighter materials because a 3,400lbs Mustang is sooo desirable over a 3,800 mustang. The Corvette doesn't feel like a Vette anymore, you can't squirt the back out like before, it dose not rotate like before... it's mass has reached critical. So might as well buy a GT350 instead. (IMO)


Cars have enough HP now, they need to learn how to be athletic and the GT350 is an uber start.

We can already see the European sports car influence in the American sports cars. Viper, Vette, Mustang recently, just take a look at the interior. It's not a robust, badly put together plastic dashboard in front of you, but a nicely and softly finished one, with a more rounded design. Seats are now more comfortable. If it keeps going like this, we will see more and more innovations taken from Euro brands. A for the roof, Magnesium starts slowly to break into auto industry, Porsche has just started using it on the GT3 RS, it will be interesting to see if Magnesium will show better than CF.

 

[Erik427]

I can appreciate ones desire to "weigh" in on the difference in weights between the G5 vs. G6 Mustang (and how previous gen owners are smug with their lower weight) and the new G6 Camaro vs. G6 Mustang.

Is weight the end-zone to victory? Clearly not always but it’s something we laymen can point to and say, aha! You’re too heavy! Did we really believe the GT350 was somehow going to be as light as a C7 'vette or even Boss 302?

Without torque multiplication (gearing) low weight is negligible. Without platform rigidity low weight is dubious. Without superior suspension geometry to control pitch, dive and live axle gyrations (all prior Gen 6 Mustangs) low weight is not a substitute.

If you look at the best cars in history: Mechanical strength and engineering is uber alas. Colin Chapman's cars (Lotus) were notoriously fragile (and super lightweight). German cars are notoriously overbuilt and rarely considered lightweight. American cars are usually broad of beam and always robust.

Even a low content car like a Fox body Mustang has limitations in taking weight out; it’s beefy in the frame and body with an extremely crude suspension...

I did a fox body build and managed almost 2,200lbs with a cast iron SBF.....heads and intake were alloy.

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