GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

The GT350 has nearly the same size restriction the z28 does now. It had it on the first race while the z28 didn't need one till just last race. The z28 was given extreme leeway...

The next thing you bring up is absolute gold...

If manufacturers can't keep up with the class, then shame on them...

Here's the issue, the 5th Gen Camaro couldn't keep up OR comply with the standard set of rules that were in place since like 2004. They went Riley (now Pratt) to design the car, Chevy had nothing to do with it. The Camaro GS.R went unrestricted since 2012 and did sh!t. Still allowed a 3400lbs weight, a 500lbs weight reduction. You would think a manufacturer could keep up in this class given the basic criteria, 350-405RWHP, between 3100-3400lbs... Easy right?

So yes, the Camaro in general is to blame. It would be like training 6 or 7 boxers for Middleweight for the last 10 years then suddenly, and blatantly allow a Heavyweight almost two years of free reign in the Middleweight class.

As of right now, the 991, M4 nor any Aston Martin will be making an appearance in CTSC. IMSA is in the middle of defining some of these classes identity. That is literally all we are witnessing. I believe it was NASCARS decision in the first place to allow the z28 in Conti after they bought Grand Am, not IMSA...

This upsets me but as I said 2 years ago, this is exactly what I expected to happen. Go, check my post, this was so foreseeable that a random internet guy could see it from his smartphone.


Remember how badly I warned about the GT350 overpowering all the Boss's old classes? My specific concern about OEM equipment not being homologated... the importance of a FULL development season PRIOR to the factory release?

All of that's gone... BMW could bring in a TTV6 GTM4 making 600hp and 3100lbs... apparently halfway through the season now, and sweep the class.

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[02gtnh]

It was given the hp advantage due to weight and size of car and riding on much smaller tires then stock. Plus your not adding there rpm reduction. They make peak power at 6900 rpms yet there restricted to 1-3,6 at 6100rpm and 4,5 at 6400rpms. That is some hp loss on top of a 60mm restrictor. The first year was trial and error, so now the gt350 is out with similar numbers, it was easy to start with similar restrictors. Next I see rpm reduction for them.

 

[thePill]

It was given the hp advantage due to weight and size of car and riding on much smaller tires then stock. Plus your not adding there rpm reduction. They make peak power at 6900 rpms yet there restricted to 1-3,6 at 6100rpm and 4,5 at 6400rpms. That is some hp loss on top of a 60mm restrictor. The first year was trial and error, so now the gt350 is out with similar numbers, it was easy to start with similar restrictors. Next I see rpm reduction for them.

No, it started with an 80mm restrictor at 3400lbs even. It didn't reach 3500lbs until this season. The Glen race was the first race with a 60mm restrictor at 3575lbs.

A 5th Gen Camaro should NEVER be within 200lbs of an S197 OR the GT350. It's not like that in OEM, it shouldn't carry over here.


You see more restrictions? I think they should ban the GT350 and z28 from GS. The z28 should have never been permitted to compete in CTSC GS in the first place.


Similar to what's going on in the SCCA, the GT can handle the z28 in here.

 

[Phillip123]

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]m18YOM0iUZ4[/MEDIA]"]

Enjoy.

 

[thePill]

Enjoy.

I usually enjoy real world results...

In the real world, the S197 GT, Boss 302 and S550 GT RAPE the 1LE in SCCA stock classes.


RAPE...

 

[Sasuketr]

Pill,

Whats the outcome out of these races? People, including me, were expecting the gt350 to be a lot more faster than the z28.

A tuned and suspension modded GTPP with better tires might take on an m3 and m4 on the track. I would expected the gt350 to be a lot more faster than that.

Do you think its the weight distribution giving problems, nose heavy tail light? Enlighten us please!

 

[thePill]

Pill,

Whats the outcome out of these races? People, including me, were expecting the gt350 to be a lot more faster than the z28.

A tuned and suspension modded GTPP with better tires might take on an m3 and m4 on the track. I would expected the gt350 to be a lot more faster than that.

Do you think its the weight distribution giving problems, nose heavy tail light? Enlighten us please!

Apparently, once the z28's bunch together, they drag each other down. The drivers yesterday kinda explained this phenomenon and it does make some sense.

They are large, heavy and about as aerodynamic as a barn door. The lead car creates a bubble in which all the other Camaro's (one to three more) become, more or less, a giant car. The tail cars (slower) suddenly gain momentum in this bubble, making it easier to keep up with the lead z28.

However, when the cars in the rear attempt to pass the lead Camaro, SMACK!!! The air has the consistency of Jello Pudding and they fall back in line... and keep right up.

All the while, the additional pull from these other z28's create strain on the lead z28. They are literally helping each other suck... Not only that, a pack of 2 or 4 Camaro's are slower because of this...



Another thing they complain about is the z28 always getting bad air in any type of traffic. Hmmmm... It's probably due to the non-existent upper grill area not cooling the radiator. After water temps reach 300, it's pulls power...

280+ degree water temps are normal in an LS7 z28.

 

[Mr Monte]

Enjoy.

That was actually painful to watch. All 3 cars capabilities far exceed the driver's capabilities. I felt like I was watching a leisurely Sunday drive. Out of the gas way too early & on the brakes too early.

 

[02gtnh]

No, it started with an 80mm restrictor at 3400lbs even. It didn't reach 3500lbs until this season. The Glen race was the first race with a 60mm restrictor at 3575lbs.

A 5th Gen Camaro should NEVER be within 200lbs of an S197 OR the GT350. It's not like that in OEM, it shouldn't carry over here.


You see more restrictions? I think they should ban the GT350 and z28 from GS. The z28 should have never been permitted to compete in CTSC GS in the first place.


Similar to what's going on in the SCCA, the GT can handle the z28 in here.

But it didn't stay long. In March of 2014 they lowered to a 75mm and cut rpms from 6900 to 6300, then in Sep. the weight went to 3550 with a 68mm and cut the rpms down another 200 to 6100rpms. That was huge for them. They started 2015 with a 3500 weight (down 50lbs) with a 68mm and a 1-3 and 6th gear at 6100rpms and a 4th and 5th at 6400rpms. Then in April of this year they jumped the weight to 3575lbs and dropped the restrictor to 65mm. Then there last restriction was on June 10th where they went down to a 60mm and raised the ride height to 4" or a .5 higher then everyone else. So you can see the z28 just keeps getting the restrictions to pile up. Does it deserve it, yes. I see the GT350 going down that same route, but IMHO it will come faster as the z28 is similar in power so they know what to do to slow these cars down for the rest of the cars.

 

[Nasty99z28]

But it didn't stay long. In March of 2014 they lowered to a 75mm and cut rpms from 6900 to 6300, then in Sep. the weight went to 3550 with a 68mm and cut the rpms down another 200 to 6100rpms. That was huge for them. They started 2015 with a 3500 weight (down 50lbs) with a 68mm and a 1-3 and 6th gear at 6100rpms and a 4th and 5th at 6400rpms. Then in April of this year they jumped the weight to 3575lbs and dropped the restrictor to 65mm. Then there last restriction was on June 10th where they went down to a 60mm and raised the ride height to 4" or a .5 higher then everyone else. So you can see the z28 just keeps getting the restrictions to pile up. Does it deserve it, yes. I see the GT350 going down that same route, but IMHO it will come faster as the z28 is similar in power so they know what to do to slow these cars down for the rest of the cars.

All of those were done to the camaro? I thought the vast majority of restrictions were on the mustang and the camaro hardly had any?

 

[thePill]

All of those were done to the camaro? I thought the vast majority of restrictions were on the mustang and the camaro hardly had any?

That was the original argument, now the z28 is a victim for being put through all this nonsense...

Meanwhile, the GT350 enters the class, immediately aquiring a 58mm restrictor. The z28 JUST got a 60mm restriction. The z28 has just finally been taken to 3575lbs. This is about 200-250lbs heavier than the GT350 and the Boss. That's about as close to any Mustang a 5th Gen should be allowed.


The z28 is a victim now... a GT350 rape victim...

 

[Nasty99z28]

That was the original argument, now the z28 is a victim for being put through all this nonsense...

Meanwhile, the GT350 enters the class, immediately aquiring a 58mm restrictor. The z28 JUST got a 60mm restriction. The z28 has just finally been taken to 3575lbs. This is about 200-250lbs heavier than the GT350 and the Boss. That's about as close to any Mustang a 5th Gen should be allowed.


The z28 is a victim now... a GT350 rape victim...

Would you honestly not think they would apply a restrictor? They know the car makes great power and weighs less so why wouldn't they? Proactive as oppose to reactive I guess.and why do you feel the weight shouldn't be any closer? Don't they try to make these cars some what equals? The mustang should have a clear advantage given its much newer everything compared to a very old 5th gen.

 

[02gtnh]

That was the original argument, now the z28 is a victim for being put through all this nonsense...

Meanwhile, the GT350 enters the class, immediately aquiring a 58mm restrictor. The z28 JUST got a 60mm restriction. The z28 has just finally been taken to 3575lbs. This is about 200-250lbs heavier than the GT350 and the Boss. That's about as close to any Mustang a 5th Gen should be allowed.


The z28 is a victim now... a GT350 rape victim...

But your forgetting the rpm restrictor of the z28 on top of the TB restrictor. The gt350 has similar TB restrictor, but can still rev to full 8200 rpms through all gears. The Z has not been able to do that for almost the whole time of racing. Now imagine the gt to be only allow to rev at 7300 max.

 

[Hack]

Would you honestly not think they would apply a restrictor? They know the car makes great power and weighs less so why wouldn't they? Proactive as oppose to reactive I guess.and why do you feel the weight shouldn't be any closer? Don't they try to make these cars some what equals? The mustang should have a clear advantage given its much newer everything compared to a very old 5th gen.

The z28 has a HUGE cubic inch advantage. They should be forced to put a 5.3 in there. Ridiculous having that huge engine and thinking it should be even.

 

[02gtnh]

The z28 has a HUGE cubic inch advantage. They should be forced to put a 5.3 in there. Ridiculous having that huge engine and thinking it should be even.

The CI has no advantage at all, it just a different way to make hp and tq.:cheers:

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