Track day tire decision

[GTP]

I just got back from a weekend at Gingerman. I now am on GT500cftp front springs with PP1 rear springs. -2.5 rear camber. Hot pressures around 34psi. Experimenting with front camber based on tire temps. Ran -3.4 with near even tire temps. Aiming for inside temp at least 10deg higher than outside.

After 3.5 track days on 315 Cup2s the shallow outer groove is gone and the outside shoulder sipes are gone on one tire. Square setup and i keep a log and rotate every track weekend. So far so good. Hoping for 8 track days per set.

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[allfivefifty]

I remember Michelin using different types of (3 different) tire compound on some of their tires. Are the Cup 2 homogenous in tire compound? Not sure how it will affect the parameters if the outer shoulder compound is different vs middle vs inner.

 

[Bossdog]

I now have 2 track weekends on my Vitour P1"s
First weekend was Watkins Glen. Temp got up to 100F both days. I thought the P1's did pretty well, 100F is pretty demanding for any tire on a heavy car. They didn't have quite the grip and composure as the Proxy RR's. Now I know that is comparing a 40 ware tire to a 200 but further up a member said he thought the RR's ( now R's) were "old technology and the the New "Super 200's might be better.
I did run the RR's at NCM at 90+F but not 100F.
The P1's were pretty chewed up (visually) after the WGI weekend, first use. I saw another post on the P1's saying the way the looked after the first weekend that they were not likely to last a long time. I felt the same way looking at them after the first weeked of use.
I took the time to hand scrape all the excess rubber picked up off them as I have done previously with other tires. its a LOT of work but worth it. When I start the next weekend they feel close to new trires rather than all bunpy/lumpy and out of balance.
All that being said I thought they were close to the RR's but not quite as composed.

Second weekend, Mid Ohio, overcast, some rain and 75F. I was very pleased with the P1's, I pushed them as hard as I could and they responded well. Mid ohio does very well keeping the track clean, few marbles even with the BMW club racers participating in the weekend event. Even with the cooler temps they were not as grippy as the RR's, but they were very composed. With the slightly lower grip, it was easier to rotate the car but the car was not "loose" The tires did no fall off as you got further into the secession, but they were only 20 min sessions and cool temps, very consistent.

Two very different environmental conditions for the two weekends so hard to compare. At this point its about economics, both tires are very fun to drive, I didn't feel the P1's limited my fun/experience. The P1's looked as I would expect after 4 track days, they looked like they had 4 more days in them, but I'll have to wait till next year to find that out. I only got 3 weekend out of the RR's ($1,400). the P1's were $2000 so 4 weekends would be brake even between these 2 tires and I'd pick the new Proxy'R's. If the P1's get more than 4 weekend (seems unlikely), i'd lean back towrd them.
I'd love to try the Goodyear F1Super car 3 ($2100) its just hard to imaging any 200 ware tire getitng more than 4 weekends ( 8 track days). Its also hard to imagine that any 200 tread ware tire is going to out perform the Proxy R's at 40 tW. The R's are a TOTAL blast to run on!
I just looked on the Tire Rack web site, the R's in 295 are back in stock!

 

[GTP]

Tell us how long you would like your track tires to last, and at what TW.

 

[Bossdog]

Tell us how long you would like your track tires to last, and at what TW.

I guess my goal is not a specific # of days, I'm just rying to:
1) not have my tier limit my enjoyment
2) minimize my tire cost per event.

I think that is a 200 ware or less will satisfy criteria #1. I like NT01's @100, Proxy R's @ 40, P1's @200 are fine and I'm sure, given the reviews, the GY F1 SC 3's would be fine as well, along with many of the "Super 200's".
So the questions comes down to How long do they last and how much do they cost.

My other option is purchasing a set of 18"Apex EC7's and start purchaing Take-off slicks. I don't really know what the "pay-back" time is, applying tire savings to pay for the third set of rims. My best guess is its a wash, meaning by the time I'm done tracking, Hang up my helmet, I'll have probably have paid for the rims with tire savings, but thats just a guess, I haven't tried to do any math, nor am I inclined to. Running a straight up slick is probably a lot of fun.

 

[allfivefifty]

Mustang is too heavy for consumables once you start digging in and doing the arithmetic. Unless you get rid of 800 lbs it will eat through those pads and 200tw tires specially in that heat. It seems that if you care about enjoyment more and are OK switching tires at the track(not driving them to or from the track). Non DOT used slicks are the most cost effective and lighter tires. I bought a set 3/4 treadwear left Pirelli 280/680/19 DH slicks. You'll need 19x11 wheels and somewhat aggressive track alignment. I'll try to report back once I fit them and track them. They should outlast the Goodyear F1 3Rs i currently use. It will tax your suspension components. So no free lunch.

 

[GTP]

Mustang is too heavy for consumables once you start digging in and doing the arithmetic. Unless you get rid of 800 lbs it will eat through those pads and 200tw tires specially in that heat.

I'm with you there.

It seems that if you care about enjoyment more and are OK switching tires at the track(not driving them to or from the track). Non DOT used slicks are the most cost effective and lighter tires. I bought a set 3/4 treadwear left Pirelli 280/680/19 DH slicks. You'll need 19x11 wheels and somewhat aggressive track alignment. I'll try to report back once I fit them and track them. They should outlast the Goodyear F1 3Rs i currently use. It will tax your suspension components. So no fee lunch.

I've been running Cup2 take-offs in 305/30, 315/30, or 305/35 on 19"x11" square. Goal is at least 4 weekends. My alignment is -4deg/-2.4deg F/R camber. And I drive them to/from the track that way, lol. I will be trying ~32psi hot this weekend at NCM.

GTP’s Poor Mans McLaren (w/ pics, tips, & techniques)

 

[Bossdog]

I've been running Cup2 take-offs in 305/30, 315/30, or 305/35 on 19"x11" square. Goal is at least 4 weekends. My alignment is -4deg/-2.4deg F/R camber. And I drive them to/from the track that way, lol. I will be trying ~32psi hot this weekend at NCM.

GTP’s Poor Mans McLaren (w/ pics, tips, & techniques)

Where are you purchasing your Cup-2 take-offs? My Factory PP2 rims will accept 305's all around. Right now I have PS4s's on them for street tires.

Mustang is too heavy for consumables once you start digging in and doing the arithmetic. Unless you get rid of 800 lbs it will eat through those pads and 200tw tires specially in that heat. It seems that if you care about enjoyment more and are OK switching tires at the track(not driving them to or from the track). Non DOT used slicks are the most cost effective and lighter tires. I bought a set 3/4 treadwear left Pirelli 280/680/19 DH slicks. You'll need 19x11 wheels and somewhat aggressive track alignment. I'll try to report back once I fit them and track them. They should outlast the Goodyear F1 3Rs i currently use. It will tax your suspension components. So no free lunch.

I did acquire a trailer this seson and I pulling the car to the track so non-DOT tires are fine.
I actuall packed a second set of tires into my Mustang last year and drove to the track and changed tires there. That was more of a PitA than I care to indure
I am assuming 11's up front require a substantial spacer?

My PP2 Factrory rims are 10.5/11/19. My track rims are 10/11/19. If I am going to invest in a third set or rims, it would likely be Apex 10/11/18, I see on usedracingtires.com they have
2 - 260/650/18 Pirelli Slick and 2 - 280/650/18 Pirelli Slick - Set - DH-G Compound for $920 or $900 per set if you purchase a pallet of 4 sets. If they last as long as a set of new Proxy R's the savings is $500 per set, probably a 3-season pay back to pay for the Apex wheels. I guess thats not too bad.
I have to use up these Vitour P1's, hopefully 2 more weeknds in them and then decide whats next.

 

[GTP]

Where are you purchasing your Cup-2 take-offs? My Factory PP2 rims will accept 305's all around. Right now I have PS4s's on them for street tires.

I'm not. Can't find them anymore. And if I could I would keep it a secret!

...
I actuall packed a second set of tires into my Mustang last year and drove to the track and changed tires there. That was more of a PitA than I care to indure
I am assuming 11's up front require a substantial spacer?.

I put 4 275/40 PS4's inside my car if I anticipate rain. Even so, I drive to the track on the set of wheels that I expect to go on track with first. Then I usually don't have to swap wheels at the track.

My PP2 Factrory rims are 10.5/11/19. My track rims are 10/11/19. If I am going to invest in a third set or rims, it would likely be Apex 10/11/18, I see on usedracingtires.com they have
2 - 260/650/18 Pirelli Slick and 2 - 280/650/18 Pirelli Slick - Set - DH-G Compound for $920 or $900 per set if you purchase a pallet of 4 sets. If they last as long as a set of new Proxy R's the savings is $500 per set, probably a 3-season pay back to pay for the Apex wheels. I guess thats not too bad.
I have to use up these Vitour P1's, hopefully 2 more weeknds in them and then decide whats next.

Any reason you won't go square on any new wheel purchase? That's what many of us do. Also, I swapped to GT350 brakes, so no 18" wheels for me!
Basically, buy four rear wheels (ET=52mm), and then put on long front studs and a pair of 1" spacers and you should be good.

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