TR3160 4th gear lockout issues on track

[elshelb]

Howdy all - for those who track their GT350s.

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with a 4th gear lockout (notably on the 3-4 shift) on these cars. Was running Streets of Willow yesterday and twice experienced a lockout on the 3-4 upshift at redline. Both lockout incidents happened during the afternoon session later in the day. Car drives and shifts perfectly fine (albeit a little bit of clutch smell after LOL), but curious if anyone else has experienced similar issues before, mainly on track.

Friend riding passenger managed to catch one of my lockout incidents on video. Not banging gears by any means, but definitely shifting with intention. Later part of the video shows how my shifts typically are.

Car is on the stock original clutch with 48K, fresh fluid in the TR3160. Stock everything except a Gen2 MGW shifter.

Reading a bit on TrackMustangs these symptoms point to the clutch potentially getting a bit hot on track and not disengaging completely on the upshift? Doesn't seem to point to any other issues with the trans or drivetrain.

Side note, I do have an ESP on the car - anyone have any experience with similar issues and getting anything covered? I know the warranties typically don't cover clutch wear, but this does seem to point more towards clutch operation versus actual wear

Sponsored

 

[WItoTX]

It sounds like you just missed a shift. However, there is a warranty thread on here about a guy trying to get a replacement, I believe his synchros were going between 3-4. Ford wouldn't warranty it claiming he was "tracking" the car.

If it wasn't just a missed shift (not uncommon if you aren't tracking a lot), then maybe it's synchros. I'll see if I can find his thread. He ended up sell the 350 for a ZLE.

 

[elshelb]

It sounds like you just missed a shift. However, there is a warranty thread on here about a guy trying to get a replacement, I believe his synchros were going between 3-4. Ford wouldn't warranty it claiming he was "tracking" the car.

If it wasn't just a missed shift (not uncommon if you aren't tracking a lot), then maybe it's synchros. I'll see if I can find his thread. He ended up sell the 350 for a ZLE.

I initially thought so too (or worse, money shifted lol), but it felt weird, almost like it was pushing me out of gear when I tried to get it into 4th. I’ve tracked this car a decent amount and haven’t had this happen before on track except this time and once in the session before.

Oddly enough, I was on a spirited backroad drive a couple weeks ago and similar circumstances, 3-4 shift @ redline and was locked out again. I’ve definitely missed shifts in this car before but these just felt different

Figured I’d have the dealer take a look since I’m taking the car in soon anyway since the AC compressor sounds like a supercharger now.

 

[mikedahammer]

The short answer is: clean the car inside and out, remove any and all track paraphernalia, speak no evil, and don't give out too much info.

Just say the car is not shifting properly and it has happened on multiple occasions. Just remember that the ESP only covers components as long as the the cause of failure is not from a wear or noncovered component. What that means is if your motor was damaged for a failed timing belt, and the motor is a covered item, but the failure was due to a noncovered wear item (like a belt), then the motor would not be covered.

The less info the better. Make sure the service writer and tech write it up as such and if everyone agrees the synchros are bad and you need a new trans you might as well change the clutch AND slave cylinder while in there if they are worn.

Feel free to dm if need be. I still look at this board a few times a week. Much better the camaro6g.

 

[markhas]

Hey Elshelb,
I had a similar experience at a local track in IL. The car gave resistance down shifting 4-3 during a track session, then it was OKish... for the rest of the day. The next day I was driving it on the street and the tranny completely locked up in second gear. My car was still under factory warranty, and it was completely covered, but they charged Ford $7000 parts and labor. (sad because a new tranny would have been way cheaper) They also had the car for 4 weeks and I missed my next track event. I track my car a lot. At the time it had about 10k track miles on it. I agree that your issue could possibly be clutch, but if I was you, I would get it to the dealership fast, like Mike said.
Good luck and keep us up to date on what happens

 

[gorditas]

Howdy all - for those who track their GT350s.

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with a 4th gear lockout (notably on the 3-4 shift) on these cars. Was running Streets of Willow yesterday and twice experienced a lockout on the 3-4 upshift at redline. Both lockout incidents happened during the afternoon session later in the day. Car drives and shifts perfectly fine (albeit a little bit of clutch smell after LOL), but curious if anyone else has experienced similar issues before, mainly on track.

Friend riding passenger managed to catch one of my lockout incidents on video. Not banging gears by any means, but definitely shifting with intention. Later part of the video shows how my shifts typically are.

Car is on the stock original clutch with 48K, fresh fluid in the TR3160. Stock everything except a Gen2 MGW shifter.

Reading a bit on TrackMustangs these symptoms point to the clutch potentially getting a bit hot on track and not disengaging completely on the upshift? Doesn't seem to point to any other issues with the trans or drivetrain.

Side note, I do have an ESP on the car - anyone have any experience with similar issues and getting anything covered? I know the warranties typically don't cover clutch wear, but this does seem to point more towards clutch operation versus actual wear

Have you separated the clutch from the master cylinder? (Search divorcing clutch from brakes) I wonder if hot brake fluid in the reservoir was making it's way to your clutch and keeping you from fully disengaging when trying to shift, hence the lockout.

 

[mavisky]

Even with the warranty you're going to have an uphill climb to get any warranty coverage with an MGW shifter bolted to the car. Most dealerships will simply point their finger to it as the culprit and there's next to nothing you can do to prove it's not since it's literally one of the handful of parts involved in making the gear change. If you had different wheels, suspension, or an exhaust and had shift lockout you'd have an argument to make, but in this case it may just be the MGW. I've not installed one on the TR3160 as I don't feel it really needs it (compared to my old TR6060 in my GT500) so perhaps it is part of the issue for you here.

 

[elshelb]

Figured I'd provide a much needed update on this issue - it wasn't anything crazy or catastrophic luckily, but more of a cascade of little issues that basically added up.

Had the tech drive car around a bit and he said it felt like the slave cylinder was going out, so we tried getting that through the Ford ESP but unfortunately they considered that piece a wear item. Dealer ended up working with me so we were able to get some stuff partially covered and decided I would stick a new clutch in the car while everything was apart. Honestly not a big deal since I got around $10k worth of work done under the ESP while the car was there (AC compressor, oil pan, rear axles, and more).

We also figured that the brake fluid (fresh Motorcraft LV High Performance fluid) was getting hot on track along with how the stock clutch line is routed, which might have just slowed the actuation just enough that it wouldn't allow the clutch to fully disengage quickly enough during hard driving. So replaced it with the upgraded McLeod stainless line and routed it away from the hot exhaust, and flushed all fluids with Castrol SRF.

While I was waiting for parts the lockout issue started to get worse, and then eventually the clutch started slipping. Guess 50k was a solid run for the original clutch, being tracked and daily driven after all. Originally planned on upgrading to a Vengeance Stage 1 clutch but it was on backorder for who knows how long so ended up going with a McLeod RXT with lightweight flywheel. Break in was a bit harsh but it broke in nicely and the car feels great again. I'd say the stock clutch feels better but the RXT has seemed solid and don't have any real complaints except the clutch chatter lol

When we had everything apart our suspicions were confirmed with the slave cylinder pretty much worn out, and the clutch actually didn't look too bad but was definitely time for a new one.

Funny enough I have a solid relationship with this dealer and I took the car in as-is, with track stickers on it and all. Took the car on a track event a couple weeks ago and it felt great, didn't skip a beat. The RXT also seems to take to launching and clutch kicks a lot better than the OEM unit, but the OEM unit still feels better at the end of the day.

 

[John S]

Any idea how the " peak torque limiting" orifice in the Ford elbow fitting influences clutch engagement and release during track sessions? I'm in the process of separating the clutch master cylinder reservoir and upgrading the clutch lines on my Mach 1 and I don't think Mcleod's elbow fitting has the restrictor?

 

[elshelb]

Any idea how the " peak torque limiting" orifice in the Ford elbow fitting influences clutch engagement and release during track sessions? I'm in the process of separating the clutch master cylinder reservoir and upgrading the clutch lines on my Mach 1 and I don't think Mcleod's elbow fitting has the restrictor?

I reckon this is similar to the clutch delay valve on BMWs that slows the release of fluid and therefore clutch re-engagement. I noticed the clutch engages a lot quicker now but couldn’t tell whether that was from the McLeod line upgrade (which removes the restrictor) so you have to be a lot more mindful when shifting lazily if that makes sense.

The McLeod line did not have the restrictor on it.

With that being removed + the RXT being unsprung you have to be more mindful in order to get a smooth shift, but the engagement/disengagement of the clutch is noticeably quicker, especially when doing a launch or clutch kick. Can definitely shift faster too, but we know the TR3160 rewards smoothness over banging gears

Sponsored