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K4fxd
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ford-slashes-prices-electric-mustang-204658452.html
2
Kirsten Korosec
Tue, May 2, 2023 at 4:46 PM EDT
Ford cut the price of its all-electric Mustang Mach-E by as much as $4,000 while adding range and other features — the latest move in an EV price war sparked by Tesla.
Ford said Tuesday it is reopening its order book and preparing to ramp production of the vehicle in the second half of 2023, following factory upgrades. Ford expects to produce 130,000 units at the plant in 2023. By the end of the year, its annual production run rate will be over 200,000, according to a spokesperson.
This is the second time since the beginning of the year that Ford has cut the price of the Mustang Mach-E.
The cuts come as competition for EV buyers heats up. It also follows a quarter of lagging Mustang Mach-E sales, which fell 20% in the first quarter from the same year-ago period.
Ford loses money on BEV's, cuts prices (twice) and still has a 20% reduction over last year sales.
I think the Chicago based study is correct and the industry insider charts and graphs are not.
2
Kirsten Korosec
Tue, May 2, 2023 at 4:46 PM EDT
Ford cut the price of its all-electric Mustang Mach-E by as much as $4,000 while adding range and other features — the latest move in an EV price war sparked by Tesla.
Ford said Tuesday it is reopening its order book and preparing to ramp production of the vehicle in the second half of 2023, following factory upgrades. Ford expects to produce 130,000 units at the plant in 2023. By the end of the year, its annual production run rate will be over 200,000, according to a spokesperson.
This is the second time since the beginning of the year that Ford has cut the price of the Mustang Mach-E.
The cuts come as competition for EV buyers heats up. It also follows a quarter of lagging Mustang Mach-E sales, which fell 20% in the first quarter from the same year-ago period.
Ford loses money on BEV's, cuts prices (twice) and still has a 20% reduction over last year sales.
I think the Chicago based study is correct and the industry insider charts and graphs are not.
sk47
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Hello; I read this. Seems they are overall doing ok because of ICE sales (Ford Blue). I do not know the why behind dividing the company into two divisions. Ford blue for ICE and a separate EV division.
sk47
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Hello; I do not understand the business side of selling a product for less than the cost of making the product.
I do understand there are upfront capital costs in making a new product. You have to build or refurbish a factory which can take lots of money. So, for the first few years the upfront costs are more than they will be once the startup process is finished. At some point the startup costs are over and the product starts yielding a profit on per unit sales. If Ford EV is still in the startup stage I guess the plan is for these losses to stop before long.
However, limited my understanding may be I am confident they cannot continue losing $60K per unit. After all they are not banks making risky investments or commercial property loans.
K4fxd
Well-Known Member
So far the F150 and fleet sales are covering the loss. Some of it is start up. Most of it is from batteries if I recall correctly.
When these mandates hit and the ICE vehicles can't cover the losses the prices of BEV's will go up, along with our electric bills.
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sk47
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Hello; Yes, to the electric bills. Yes, to the cost of BEV's going up. I get the hope for the future is IF things fall the right way electricity will be so very much cheaper from the "green" sources. That hope is based on wishful thinking so far and remains to be seen. The deeper this "green" energy hole gets dug, the more i will be rooting for it to actually work. Why? Because at some point we will be so deep in that my life/lifestyle will be on the line along with everyone else.
BEV's cannot be subsidized forever. At some point they will have to be sold above cost of manufacture without any taxpayer dollars added. As things stand today the equation balances out with continued higher prices. Some breakthru might change things if indeed a breakthru does happen. ( I think we need more than one breakthru). Best example I can think of was lasers. I think it was in the early 1970's when i first saw a ruby laser in use. It was at EKU in Richmond KY. Now they are common enough to be in CD players, DVD players and pocket pointers. Back in 1970's i would not have bet the farm on cheap lasers, wish i had.
martinjlm
Retired from GM
You say you don’t understand and then you go on to explain it quite well, actually.
For a recent parallel, during the initial launch of Model S and Model X, Tesla was burning through tens of millions of dollars per quarter. By the time Model 3 and Model Y were up to full production volumes, Tesla began earning tens of millions per month and now earns the most profit per vehicle in the industry. Ford would welcome that sort of turnaround and it is not out of the question.
sk47
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Hello; I have known some men who started coal mining operations during a boom decades ago. One went broke another did fair. The startup costs were high for both. Machinery costs and getting the mine face finished. When they started producing coal, they had to sell at the market price of the time they had coal to load not at the price when they risked their capital. That was when they made it or went bust. I did not have any funds to invest.You say you don’t understand and then you go on to explain it quite well, actually.
For a recent parallel, during the initial launch of Model S and Model X, Tesla was burning through tens of millions of dollars per quarter. By the time Model 3 and Model Y were up to full production volumes, Tesla began earning tens of millions per month and now earns the most profit per vehicle in the industry. Ford would welcome that sort of turnaround and it is not out of the question.
Seems to me the market price ought to be for an ICE currently. Only reason to pay more for a BEV will be the propaganda about saving the planet or just wanting to have the new shinny tech.
No need for me to go into the cash incentives for BEV's and the policies which have raised gas/diesel prices again. That is artificial and cannot last forever.
sk47
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Tesla driver fatally shot in fight at charging station | Watch (msn.com)
Hello; A twist on EV charging. Wonder if we will find out the cause?
Hello; A twist on EV charging. Wonder if we will find out the cause?
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K4fxd
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https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ford-lightning-battery-problems-troubling-120000721.html
We know that despite it being a taboo topic among many media outlets, EV fires are a real concern.
We know that despite it being a taboo topic among many media outlets, EV fires are a real concern.
sk47
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Hello; A few things are likely to happen. First being someone will chime in about how ICE also catch fire. True enough. ICE fire hazards have been reduced over time, likely BEV fire hazards will be reduced over time.
Problem is trying to force so much energy into a battery in a short time. It is a different animal than an energy dense liquid fuel such as gasoline or diesel. Im so many way gas & diesel are ideal fuels. Liquid at most ambient temperatures. Natural gas, propane and especially hydrogen have to be highly compressed at normal temps.
A liquid fuel fire can be knocked down quickly. A battery fire has to dissipate a lot of stored energy. Whatever caused the fault will persist until the energy transferred/changed into a different form. That appears to be why a battery fire can start up even days later. The short or other fault still exists.
The safer way to charge an EV is the slower way. Historically better for the battery. I always slow charge my trolling motor battery after use. Same for a starting battery in a vehicle if I have time. I usually set the charger at 2 amps.
sk47
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Hello; Irony being natural gas is one of the cleanest, if not the cleanest, burning such fuel. It is possible to have an un-vented propane or natural gas heater inside a home. I spent childhood years (65 years ago) in a home with natural gas stoves. Stoves with vents by the way.
Modern gas furnaces can be so efficient they are vented with PVC pipe. One PVC to feed outside air to the furnace. Another PVC to exhaust fumes. They extract so much heat energy during use that the exhaust is cool enough to use plastic pipes.
That efficiency does not matter to the short-sighted agenda driven folks. If I were on a crusade to do away with fossil fuels I would go after the worst and leave clean natural gas for last. But that likely makes too much sense to the true believers.
My home was built in the early 1970's. At the time all electric homes were a bit of a rage. The idea was cheap electric heat would be so nice. No fumes or smoke to deal with as with coal stoves. No dirty walls as you get with coal heat. Thing turned out to be the electricity was not all that cheap after a while and the resistance type electric baseboard heaters were the most expensive way to make heat. Point is i have left in place a few of those baseboard heaters. I do not use them since a previous owner had a heat pump installed. They could be a backup heat in a bind, just throw a few breakers.
I guess the point is the agenda will not stop at natural gas. Here is a question. Lots of folks have backup generators which run on propane, natural gas, diesel or gasoline. When will it be banned to add one of these to a property?
A good thing about the rush to ban and restrict so many things is it shows the mind set of the climate/green agenda. A take no prisoners path as long as they have enough power behind them. Good in that by being is such a rush they may not do so much damage that the damage cannot be reversed. Ther will be a push back at some point. I hope it does not come too late.
The scenario I picture is they hope to get things moved so far along their desired path that we will not be able to reverse things.
That by such a time even all the misery which I predict will accompany the green agenda will just have to be endured. We will be either self-rationing electricity due to cost or the authorities will be rationing it for us. We will not have a gas stove to fall back on. No coal or wood stoves. No propane heaters.
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