GM is pulling back on EVs

[K4fxd]

I've said it before, the elites want to live in prosperity and they want us peasants to live like stone age man. They are the "royals" and unless you are born into royalty, F you. What they have done and are doing to a certain man proves it.

I think california has already banned gas generators, lawn mowers and other small engine things.

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[Tinpot]

If nothing else, this thread has been and probably will continue to be, educational. Carry on….

 

[sk47]

I've said it before, the elites want to live in prosperity and they want us peasants to live like stone age man. They are the "royals" and unless you are born into royalty, F you. What they have done and are doing to a certain man proves it.

I think california has already banned gas generators, lawn mowers and other small engine things.

Hello; A thing i took to heart decades ago has worked out well. I was a fan of Ernest Hemmingway's writings (well some of them) I read somewhere that he tried to enhance things in his stories as much as five times over a basic statement. He would not just say "the man went fishing". To approach a real experience with words required more than a simple personal experience would. This is why I came to like hands on experiences over textbook or lecture.

So, I will repeat my contention which matches yours. This green agenda will diminish the lifestyle choices of more and more people over time. Already is happening to many so is not something off in the future.

I believe you are correct about gas powered small equipment in California. Perhaps some other places as well. The plan seems to be at some point the liquid fuel suppliers will not have enough of a consumption base to justify the cost of supplying product. The champions will squawk that no one is stopping us from having ICE vehicles or other equipment. That we can keep an older ICE or lawn mower if we wish. They know such will not last too long. Likely first thing the cost of fuel will become too high to afford and eventually suppliers will not be able to stay in business with a dwindling consumer base.
Not clear to me how the elites will keep enough fuel around for their private jets plus the cost of keeping airports serviceable to use.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

https://news.yahoo.com/watch-kennedy-stumps-biden-official-225312844.html

 

[sk47]

https://news.yahoo.com/watch-kennedy-stumps-biden-official-225312844.html

Hello; "There is no way the world gets its act together unless the US leads". Hope I got the quote correct. I imagine one or more of our thread champions can explain the thinking behind such a statement. I do understand the mind set but not the rationalization behind it.

I refer back to discussion points about China and India versus the USA. In the USA many coal fired power plants have been or are soon to be taken out of service. Even immensely cleaner natural gas power plants are under fire.
In China for sure and I believe in India brand new coal fired power plants are being built and put into service as I write this comment. Something like two or so new plants in China each month.

I can recite some of the excuses given. Per-capita emissions is one. That they have promised to be "good" starting 50 years from now is another. That they are making parts for wind turbines, solar panels and EV batteries is another.

I recall some decades ago having six classes a day as the only certified science teacher for a public school. Each class had a few disruptive students whose daily goal proved to be to cause trouble. By then all effective discipline methods had been taken away. ADA (average daily attendance) was more important than a learning environment because state and federal funding was tied to attendance, so expulsions were rare.
I suggested we concentrate the disruptive students into one class. That way each teacher would have one class where little was accomplished, but five classes where much could be gained. Such a suggestion was not brand new from me as the school system leadership had a pat answer backed up by education "experts". That being by having disruptive in and among the good students, the disruptive students would be positively influenced and would do better. That the good students would be examples for the others to try to live up to.
As with so many ideas from the "experts" did not work out that way. Every day in nearly every class some portion of the time was lost due to disruptions. It was more the disruptors dragged the whole process down.

My take is if we bankrupt the USA and reduce our population to "do without lifestyles" these other countries will continue to pollute at prodigious rates. China is the class leader by now being the greatest polluter of all. The promise of turning green some many decades from now seems dwarfed by the fact they are using coal at ever increasing rates. The atmosphere knows no borders.
Do I mean we should be doing the same thing in terms of pollution? No I do not. We have cleaned up vehicles and power plants a great deal. I am fine with EV's and hybrids which work economically. I have been conserving much of my life. For example I now have nearly all lights in my home as LED type. I have a box full of the old incandescent and fluorescent bulbs. The incandescent bulbs are used in the oven and microwave due to the heat.
I hated the underpowered and poor running smog vehicles of the 1970's and early 1980's. We got better vehicles by the 1990's. Modern vehicles, even diesel, run so much cleaner.

Not sure where the 50 trillion number came from in the video clip but to redo an entire grid and pay for all the incentives and subsidies, I guess the number is not out of line. It is money we do not have as we are already over 30 trillion in debt. There is no doubt the paper can be printed. Of course, inflation will follow. Good thing i already have a wheelbarrow.
Already moves are being made to remove the US dollar from being the fiat currency of the world. If (when) that happens we will not be able to borrow and print to fund things.

Time for me to stop.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Just throwing into the mix a Morgan Stanley report on EV's...

 

[sk47]

Just throwing into the mix a Morgan Stanley report on EV's...

Hello; That will take a while to digest so not quick reply. Thanks.

 

[K4fxd]

I scanned through it, it looks mostly like an investors report.

I like that the department of energy secretary cannot answer a simple question.

I have a quick easy question. If not for the climate change hysteria would there be a market for BEV's?

I think it would be 1 to 5% market share.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/electric-car-could-charge-time-165006125.html

This is something I thought of several years ago. Good to see a company doing it. Now we need a standard size battery so it is not brand specific.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uk-auto-industry-body-says-043349153.html

Looks like even in the UK people are finding out BEV's are not practical at this time.

 

[key01]

Just throwing into the mix a Morgan Stanley report on EV's...

So, nothing more recent than Jan ‘22?
It’s fun to look at the stock prices for Ford, Tesla, Rivian, etc that all tanked in ‘22. Hey, and I like EVs, but not sure ‘22 was a turning point year.

 

[sk47]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/electric-car-could-charge-time-165006125.html

This is something I thought of several years ago. Good to see a company doing it. Now we need a standard size battery so it is not brand specific.

Hello; Standard light bulb sockets. Standard gas pump nozzle size. Standard size of coins so vending machines work. Makes sense to switch a battery pack. We do it with propane tanks. We do it with cordless power tools.
I see some issues to be worked out. Say such a thing does happen, who owns the battery? I drive off the lot with a brand new EV housing a brand new battery pack which can be a big chunk of the overall price of the vehicle. Perhaps $15,000. I do a battery swap in 300 miles at as service station and wind up with a bad battery pack worth perhaps $200.
That may be too extreme. Let's say after a few years, two years for example, you want to trade in the car. You might have a two year old chassis with an eight year old battery pack that just happens to be installed at the time.

I can think of ways around such problems that might even make the cost of buying an EV less. Say you buy the EV chassis without a battery pack. Then make a deal with a chain of battery switching service stations. The service stations own the battery packs. You pay a deposit for the first battery pack and after that a fee to switch out a discharged battery pack. Guess you could have a home charger for convenience and Joe on the 5th floor who cannot have a home charger will still be in business.
When the battery pack reaches the end of useful service life the switching company decides what to do about it. Recycle, use as excess grid storage. The EV owner can have an EV on the road for as long as the chassis stays in good shape. Owner does not wind up with a throw away vehicle at the end of the battery pack life.

Within a few minutes of thinking about it I begin to like it more. Sad thing may be the agenda has such a narrow vision such a solution for two of the major problems may not be given a chance. Seems the die is cast in many ways already in terms of the path the mandates and such are already set up. One of my fears for the agendas is by the time they realize a wrong road was set in stone too early, it may not be easy or possible to get such a program started.
A key might be that the switch out battery packs be able to function is the same way a permanently installed EV Battery pack functions. Just be able to do a quick switch as well.

This would sweeten the idea of an EV a lot for me. Cost would be a question.

 

[Gregs24]

So, nothing more recent than Jan ‘22?
It’s fun to look at the stock prices for Ford, Tesla, Rivian, etc that all tanked in ‘22. Hey, and I like EVs, but not sure ‘22 was a turning point year.

Remember these are global companies in a global market.

 

[Gregs24]

Ok so slightly off topic but the marine world is moving on too. BF already have some LNG ships in use.

Raise a glass to Guillaume de Normandie, the name for Brittany Ferries’ next hybrid ship (… and the first king to be crowned at Westminster Abbey) – Brittany Ferries (brittanyferriesnewsroom.com)

25% reduction in CO2 - think of that multiplied up by the number of ships in the sea!

 

[sk47]

Ok so slightly off topic but the marine world is moving on too. BF already have some LNG ships in use.

Raise a glass to Guillaume de Normandie, the name for Brittany Ferries’ next hybrid ship (… and the first king to be crowned at Westminster Abbey) – Brittany Ferries (brittanyferriesnewsroom.com)

25% reduction in CO2 - think of that multiplied up by the number of ships in the sea!

Hello; Not that Gregs will see this, but this was why many power plants switched over to natural gas years ago. It is cleaner than oil or coal. At some expense also.
But the new way of thinking somehow equates natural gas to coal and oil-fired boilers. Somehow much better is not good enough.
Same for transport and travel vehicles. So very much cleaner than not so long ago. Yet under the new thinking we are to abandon a proven set of energy and transport systems and replace them with idealized but unproven systems. Unfortunately, the test of these new systems will come at a times of crisis when a lack of reliability can be fatal. A heat wave or deep freeze.

We have a clue about how the grid will be powered at night and when the wind blows. The plan seems to be to pull charge from private EV vehicles. I imagine the spin will be at least two fold. In a world with all EV's they will say only a little will be pulled back from any individuals at any time. We know that will be false. They will take what they need since the needs of the state outweigh the need of the individual.
But lets say you are told to evacuate for some reason. You hop in the EV figuring to have a full charge. ( oops- I forget the software which does not allow for a full 100% charge because charging to full capacity is bad for the battery life. So, the advertised 350 miles from a full charge in real use is maybe 305 miles because software is saving battery life.) Then you find out the grid has pulled maybe 25% of your charge back to power the grid. So, you are down to maybe 230 miles. Then if it is cold and you want to be warm or it is raining or it is at night, you will lose range because these things use up charge.

Here is a guess as to how they will pull charge from private vehicles to power the grid when the green supply is absent. First round they will pull a little from everyone. If more is needed another round will be pulled. Then round after round because the grid must be fed.
Last item is who will be exempt from this. Police & ambulance likely. Doctors maybe. Politicians of all stripes. I do not expect to be on any privilege list.

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