GM is pulling back on EVs

[K4fxd]

We are thinking of doing solar. In AZ where I live, we can submit to be completely off the electrical grid, since we don’t live within city limits but it has to be approved.

It's easy to get off the grid. Just don't pay your electric bill and 2 or 3 months later the utility will pull your meter. Then pay them what you owe but not the deposit they will want to restore service.

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[AZlb5.0]

It's easy to get off the grid. Just don't pay your electric bill and 2 or 3 months later the utility will pull your meter. Then pay them what you owe but not the deposit they will want to restore service.

Never thought of that. Thanks for the heads up. That’s a really good idea to be honest. No permits so no one knows what you’re doing.

 

[Gregs24]

They did a study saying that 80million cars could be plugged in and charged at night. I wonder how true that is. Our current electrical grid I would rate at a D+ at best.

'They' - who are 'they'?

Do you understand the concept of smart chargers?

Do you understand the concept of strategic planning for infrastructure?

Do you know how many times you and others have posted the same 'EV problems' over and over again despite answers / options being provided?

 

[Gregs24]

Like we have talked about in the past. The key for a successful EV transition is going to be a strong updated electrical grid and everyone is kicking the can down the road.

In the US

 

[Gregs24]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the main answer is battery storage. That’s how wind power and solar power both work. The energy is captured and stored in a battery when the wind is blowing or the sun shining. Then the energy is dispensed when needed, especially when there is no wind or sunshine. What’s more, wanna know where these batteries come from? EV batteries that are no longer sufficient for automotive use are still very much useable for stationary power storage. So much for all the old car batteries piling up in landfills. Those that don’t get recycled or remanufactured will be repurposed for energy storage.

Plus hydro as storage too

 

[Gregs24]

I doubt it. Couple thoughts behind that…

1. In 2022, EV charging accounted for about 0.02% of the power generated by the combined nationwide grid. That is an indication that EVs don’t have the monstrous draw on the grid that some characterize. I read somewhere that the added electricity cost of adding an EV to your household is roughly equivalent to the added cost of adding another freezer. I’ve never looked to verify that, so take it with a grain of salt. I can say that the cost to keep our Volt charged has been less than an additional $40/month. This has been easy to track because it is on a separate meter.
2. Different vehicles come to the charger at different states of charge. The next vehicle we buy will have a 102 kWh battery. Doesn’t mean we will always be drawing 102 kWh every time we plug it in. Most times we will by replenishing the 10-20 kWh that we used that particular day. Chargers act differently when charging at different states of charge. Just like when you charge your cell phone. The rate it adds charge changes throughout the charging process.

Plus smart chargers can actually use the car battery back into the grid when required. You set a departure time and the charger will ensure the car is 'full' at that time but may actually charge or reverse that into the grid from time to time. Pretty sure @Burkey is involved in grid infrastructure so could help more here

 

[Gregs24]

We are thinking of doing solar. In AZ where I live, we can submit to be completely off the electrical grid, since we don’t live within city limits but it has to be approved. The house I’m going to get my wife down in Puerto Rico, for sure is going that direction, since it’s much easier down there to not be part of the electrical grid. We can also capture rain water down there with no repercussions either. I’m really thinking of just moving there for good. Leaving the property here to my mother in law and leave it at that.

Fresh food vegetables fresh fish fresh meats. Everything raised and produced there. From farm a couple of hours away directly to store shelves. From local oceans to store shelves also.

We fitted solar here 13 years ago and it is still working at 98% of the original output. We are on grid but there are a few off grid I know of using ex car EV battery storage as mentioned above. Some (not many) also use small scale wind generators. Solar plus batteries is mature technology and is reliable and reasonably priced now. I wouldn't contemplate a house without solar PV now. It should be mandatory on all new builds as would be even cheaper at the new build stage.

 

[Burkey]

Plus smart chargers can actually use the car battery back into the grid when required. You set a departure time and the charger will ensure the car is 'full' at that time but may actually charge or reverse that into the grid from time to time. Pretty sure @Burkey is involved in grid infrastructure so could help more here

Haven’t seen one in action as yet sorry. EV’s are pretty thin on the ground in my neck of the woods, which is bizarre given the exceptionally high uptake of solar panels (I live in one of the sunniest regions in Australia, aptly dubbed ”Sunraysia”).

 

[raptor17GT]

We fitted solar here 13 years ago and it is still working at 98% of the original output. We are on grid but there are a few off grid I know of using ex car EV battery storage as mentioned above. Some (not many) also use small scale wind generators. Solar plus batteries is mature technology and is reliable and reasonably priced now. I wouldn't contemplate a house without solar PV now. It should be mandatory on all new builds as would be even cheaper at the new build stage.

not to drag an OT chat OT but I think solar PV is mandatory on new builds, certainly in Scotland all new builds have solar panels stuck to them and i can't see the builders doing that cause it looks good in their PR stuff. Crazy thing is, our house is brand new but the Solar generating rate is 1.3kW which is utter pants, no battery storage and we have a combi gas boiler. You'd think with a blank canvas (and empty ground) they'd fit Ground Source heat pumps, enough Solar Panels to run said pump and most of the house requirements thus massively reducing the load on the grid and allow EV charging. Maybe a pipedream but hey what do i know

 

[Gregs24]

not to drag an OT chat OT but I think solar PV is mandatory on new builds, certainly in Scotland all new builds have solar panels stuck to them and i can't see the builders doing that cause it looks good in their PR stuff. Crazy thing is, our house is brand new but the Solar generating rate is 1.3kW which is utter pants, no battery storage and we have a combi gas boiler. You'd think with a blank canvas (and empty ground) they'd fit Ground Source heat pumps, enough Solar Panels to run said pump and most of the house requirements thus massively reducing the load on the grid and allow EV charging. Maybe a pipedream but hey what do i know

Oh OK. Must be different in Scotland as certainly not mandatory here. Maybe local planning regs?

You can even get solar PV that look like standard roof tiles now so aesthetically impossible to tell.

Our house roof faces exactly due south, so we get the full bananas out of our 4kW array. We then charge our PHEV during daylight hours so motoring is largely free of fuel costs, the panels paid for themselves years ago.

 

[sk47]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the main answer is battery storage. That’s how wind power and solar power both work. The energy is captured and stored in a battery when the wind is blowing or the sun shining. Then the energy is dispensed when needed, especially when there is no wind or sunshine. What’s more, wanna know where these batteries come from? EV batteries that are no longer sufficient for automotive use are still very much useable for stationary power storage. So much for all the old car batteries piling up in landfills. Those that don’t get recycled or remanufactured will be repurposed for energy storage.

Hello; This has been posted about several times before in this thread. Mostly for use in private homes as an energy storage backup, not for a district wide backup system if memory serves.
Best I can recall when a vehicle battery pack loses capacity and gets down to something around 70% capacity that is the end of use in a vehicle. So, some have been placed in homes with solar to store excess energy production. (Guess a home on the traditional fossil fuel grid could use a battery pack also.)
OK I could make that work at my place as i have a detached home with some land. Likely would put it/them outside away from the house in case of fire. But for Johnny on the 5th floor and all his millions of friends, no good. So there that issue to be solved.

Back to my question. At some future point if the anti-fossil fuels get their way, then all electricity will come from renewables or other green sources. My area has a few hydro lakes, but they do not generate enough. So, by extension for all those who cannot put a battery pack at their residence the power companies will need some sort of backup.

So if old vehicle battery packs are the answer some additional questions arise. First where will the additional rare raw materials come from to supply both batteries in all the EV's that MUST replace all ICE and have extra for backup energy storage?

Next question. I will assume the stationary old battery packs will continue to lose capacity over time same as they did when in a vehicle. So, year by year the homeowner or regional power company will lose energy storage capacity. So, not a long term solution. ( hint -recycling)

I still like giant flywheels to store excess energy during excess production times for later use at night or on calm days. Of course, another idea makes sense. Keep some fossil fuel power plants to power thing at night or during doldrums.

 

[sk47]

not to drag an OT chat OT but I think solar PV is mandatory on new builds, certainly in Scotland all new builds have solar panels stuck to them and i can't see the builders doing that cause it looks good in their PR stuff. Crazy thing is, our house is brand new but the Solar generating rate is 1.3kW which is utter pants, no battery storage and we have a combi gas boiler. You'd think with a blank canvas (and empty ground) they'd fit Ground Source heat pumps, enough Solar Panels to run said pump and most of the house requirements thus massively reducing the load on the grid and allow EV charging. Maybe a pipedream but hey what do i know

Hello; I know the answer to one part. Heat pumps using the ground for energy exchange rather than air in much more expensive. Been a few years since i looked into it but down a few feet the ground is something around 52 degrees F all the time. I know from spelunking as a youth. My brother knows from mining over twenty years. So, ground units always have plenty of heat energy to transfer.

The expense comes from the well holes that have to be drilled. Then the plumbing pipes which must be poked into the holes and run to the heat pump itself. Also some expense for the antifreeze solution added to the pipes. Then some stout liquid pumps to move the antifreeze solution around.
I considered such a system when i bought my place 13 years ago. After i insulated and sealed my house the electric bills generally stay under $100 a month so i put it off. Now I am too old to ever get a payback.

Last bit. If you have a large pond on your property that likely is the next best heat pump. put the pipes into the pond water.

 

[raptor17GT]

Oh OK. Must be different in Scotland as certainly not mandatory here. Maybe local planning regs?

You can even get solar PV that look like standard roof tiles now so aesthetically impossible to tell.

Our house roof faces exactly due south, so we get the full bananas out of our 4kW array. We then charge our PHEV during daylight hours so motoring is largely free of fuel costs, the panels paid for themselves years ago.

pretty much every new house up here has solar panels, certainly every one we have / had looked at. We're south west facing so could easily get more panels lit up but alas without battery storage it's pointless on the SEG back into the grid. Rates per unit are pants but would be good to store energy for evening use / have the capacity for the house and potentially an EV of some mix. Anyhow, will stay away from off topic.

I presume the same folks are arguing the science is wrong despite the Oil Companies doing the same study decades ago and getting near enough same results and same cause / effect? EV's are coming, pollution is killing folks in the city and the auto makers lie constantly about the emissions from their vehicles so ban polluting vehicles and you solve the issue. Well, move the issue to somewhere else ..

 

[AZlb5.0]

We fitted solar here 13 years ago and it is still working at 98% of the original output. We are on grid but there are a few off grid I know of using ex car EV battery storage as mentioned above. Some (not many) also use small scale wind generators. Solar plus batteries is mature technology and is reliable and reasonably priced now. I wouldn't contemplate a house without solar PV now. It should be mandatory on all new builds as would be even cheaper at the new build stage.

Just looked it up and saw a write up on Axios about a company using these and making a million a year selling energy back to the grid. Once I make a solid decision on where I’m going stay planted I’m going to invest on a few of these batteries for energy storage. Good info thanks.

 

[sk47]

The Other EV Race That’s More Important Than Replicating Gas Cars (msn.com)

“Polestar is taking a different approach. The electric car maker, which spun off from Volvo, is not only working to make compelling EVs that can go toe-to-toe with ICE equivalents (with the Polestar 2 currently available and Polestar 3 SUV coming later this year), but it’s doing the important work of slashing emissions throughout its supply chain in order to make vehicles that are less harmful from the outset.”

“Today, Polestar published its Annual Sustainability Report for 2022, which found that the company was once again able to drastically decrease its emissions per car sold. “[Polestar] reduced relative CO2e-emissions per car sold by eight percent compared to 2021 levels, and this during a year of record global volume growth, as the company delivered nearly 51,500 cars in 2022, an increase of 80 percent since 2021,” they wrote in a press release. “While absolute emissions have increased as a result of the scale-up, relative emissions on a per-unit-basis have reduced by 13 percent since 2020. This is the second consecutive year the company combined rapid growth with carbon cuts. This puts Polestar on track towards its goals of halving relative emissions by 2030.”

“It’s not the sexiest slogan a marketing team could dream up, and the details even less so. The emission cuts here, they note, are due to a number of factors, some out of their control (like sales in markets that have a larger percentage of renewable energy in the grid), but some due to their deliberate action (like changing to an aluminum supplier which uses hydropower and running the Polestar 2 factory entirely on 100% renewable electricity). “



Hello; I will refer back to the per-capita discussion had here back many posts. Same sort of wording gymnastics. A casual read can make things seem better than they really are. It is the comment about absolute emissions which sours the deal somewhat.

An interpretation of this is simple enough. They are actually creating more emission overall. The per car sold bit sounds better I suppose.

That last bit is of interest to me . An aluminum supplier which uses hydropower. I wonder if that could be the ALCOA plant south of Knoxville TN which is part of the TVA system. We have a few hydro dams but also burn some coal.

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