GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

Nobody here is arguing that fossil fuels haven’t allowed us huge advances in transport and beyond.
Can you focus on what is actually being said, rather than trying to attack positions nobody here has presented?

Hello; I will answer one of your questions as best I can. "Is Elon Musk funding the left?"
Not sure what Musk does with his money in terms of donations to anything. What has been clear is at one time Musk was one of the Green/EV agenda's golden boys. Then he bought Twitter and started releasing some of the behind the scenes maneuvers used by authorities to control speech and information. Now he is a pariah to the left. That said my guess is they would still take money from him if he offered.

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[tripleyellowmustang]

Hello; After the article there is a comments section. Here is the first of those comments.

"So another model of unknown quality fed data of unknown origins that makes a claim, All we know for sure is that the results of the model conform to the prevailing narrative, and if they did not, they would not be published, and the authors' careers would likely face negative or even dire consequences. In such a system, placing faith in the results makes no sense, nore does basing major policy decisions on these results. If COVID taught us anything, it should be to pay much closer attention to incentive structures of all kinds and to focus on deranging and corrupted thought patterns in our public institutions, particularly as they interface with corporate interests."

A great comment and goes to the reason that many don’t believe everything they are being told, even by the scientist. It seems that these days many can be bought if the price is right.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this. We may never know since the Chinese government doesn’t seem interested in cooperating. Dr. Fauci is convinced that the virus came from natural transmission from animal to human, so that’s all I need to know. (Sarcasm)

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...origin-is-most-likely-a-lab-incident-in-china

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/05/covid-origin-theories-china-00085546

 

[kz]

A great comment and goes to the reason that many don’t believe everything they are being told, even by the scientist. It seems that these days many can be bought if the price is right.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this. We may never know since the Chinese government doesn’t seem interested in cooperating. Dr. Fauci is convinced that the virus came from natural transmission from animal to human, so that’s all I need to know. (Sarcasm)

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...origin-is-most-likely-a-lab-incident-in-china

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/05/covid-origin-theories-china-00085546

I'm not sure why is everyone so hung up on the covid origin - ok - it was a lab - what do you do about it ? How does that change the actions taken to protect citizen ?
Are you going to start a war with China ? LOL, sure... Break the economic ties ? Also lol for very obvious reasons... So why does it matter ? What does it change ?

Genuine question as I don't understand the fascination with this particular topic....

 

[K4fxd]

Genuine question as I don't understand the fascination with this particular topic....

Because no one likes being lied to. They lie about this, what else are they lying about? Climate change?..........................

 

[kz]

Because no one likes being lied to. They lie about this, what else are they lying about? Climate change?..........................

Conspiracy everywhere, I see. But who is ? Chinese ? US Government (Trump's - who at the time was a president ? )

Anyway, still, what are you going to do about it ? Throw a fit on a car forum ?

 

[sk47]

I think, before we killed them all, there were exponentially more Buffalo and Horses than we now have cows and sheep.

Everyone world wide burned coal or wood for heat and cooking with no scrubbers on the smoke stacks.

Hello; Very good points and accurate. Another tidbit might be an understanding of respiration and decay. At one time the atmosphere was without oxygen. Best I recall the dominant lifeforms were anerobic bacteria which could then and still can live without oxygen if they can find a suitable place.
At a point in history, it is felt that a simple organism came up with photosynthesis. They were stromatolites I believe and left stony fossils. Still, a few can be found in places. The anaerobic organisms slowly became condemned to environments where they can escape oxygen. Mud at the bottom of ponds for only one example. The anaerobes produce a byproduct called methane (swamp gas). I see the bubbles when fishing in small lakes.

So, us oxygen breathers use oxygen to "burn" our food and release needed energy. Burn in the same sense we can set fire to wood products/coal/oil/natural gas to release energy, just at a much lower temperature. I make this point to illustrate there is a lot of burning (oxidation- respiration) going on outside of fossil fuels. Perhaps a case can be made that any living organism that consumes oxygen is contributing to warming. In some of the public schools where i worked the room temperatures were kept a little low in the mornings. After all hundreds of people were like little heaters and warmed the rooms up some.

Same sort of thing with decay. Plants lock up CO2 into their tissues. When a plant dies the decay process breaks down the tissues. Some break down quickly. Others such as the strong fibers of woody plants can resist decay for a long time after death. I can go on but will pause here.

 

[K4fxd]

Conspiracy everywhere, I see.

So many things about Covid have been proven to be lies, things that were called misinformation are actually true.

But hey it's all a conspiracy, right?

I know the Orange man is scary, people don't like truth. They like to be coddled.

 

[sk47]

I'm not sure why is everyone so hung up on the covid origin - ok - it was a lab - what do you do about it ? How does that change the actions taken to protect citizen ?
Are you going to start a war with China ? LOL, sure... Break the economic ties ? Also lol for very obvious reasons... So why does it matter ? What does it change ?

Genuine question as I don't understand the fascination with this particular topic....

Hello; There is an old saying. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The very people tasked with being above reproach and who also take an oath to do no harm appear to have lied to us at very high levels. Covid got out and went around the earth, so you are correct in that knowing the origin will not change what is already done.
The issue is whoever steps up to the podiums next time need to be held to a very high standard. Making the past liars and deceivers pay a price for the orchestrated deceptions might just encourage the next crew to be honest.
If those who deliberately lied to us can skate then we can be assured the next crew will be no better.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; I will answer one of your questions as best I can. "Is Elon Musk funding the left?"
Not sure what Musk does with his money in terms of donations to anything. What has been clear is at one time Musk was one of the Green/EV agenda's golden boys. Then he bought Twitter and started releasing some of the behind the scenes maneuvers used by authorities to control speech and information. Now he is a pariah to the left. That said my guess is they would still take money from him if he offered.

My bad. I should’ve put /s after posting that. I thought it was obvious enough that Musk wasn’t making contributions…. Clearly not.

However, if you’re going to use Twitter as an example of authorities controlling speech and information, you’re dead right.
One guy wanted naked pictures of his son removed (because it’s illegal AND violated the terms of service) while another guy wanted words removed because they hurt his feelings. I’ll let you work out wii hi I exactly was trying to control freedom of speech.

 

[Gregs24]

I'm not sure why is everyone so hung up on the covid origin - ok - it was a lab - what do you do about it ? How does that change the actions taken to protect citizen ?
Are you going to start a war with China ? LOL, sure... Break the economic ties ? Also lol for very obvious reasons... So why does it matter ? What does it change ?

Genuine question as I don't understand the fascination with this particular topic....

There are reasons that can be used for the future when it comes to future pandemics (and there will be future pandemics of course)

Unfortunately we will never know and there are weak evidential links for both lab and natural origins. The simple reason is that if it ever were pinned on a lab release just think of the economic impact that would have in terms of 'claims' against China.

Some people like to 'win' something rather than just actually learning and moving on.

 

[raptor17GT]

Because no one likes being lied to. They lie about this, what else are they lying about? Climate change?..........................

the oil companies did their own studies with their own people decades and guess what? They came up with the same climate models / results as the scientists that folks like to bash. Just like the tobacco industry, hiding how bad their product is instead of coming up with better / healthier solutions.

Imagine if instead of the oil companies spending billions rubbishing the scientists over where climate change was going they had instead spent money on renewable / non polluting fuels where would we be? ICE but with an environmentally friendly fuel, cheaper and better to use than we currently have and never ending source of power? Power Cells that instead of us talking BHP and cylinder cooling we'd be talking about doing the Kessel run in 10 Parsec's. Wasted opportunities by big business intend on making money while they can, rubbishing scientist for publishing what big oil knew themselves to be correct (but bad for big oil) and here we are arguing about it like a bunch of armchair critics. Blue sky outside, i went for a wee drive so life is now a little better than it was 2hrs ago.

I'm not sure why is everyone so hung up on the covid origin - ok - it was a lab - what do you do about it ? How does that change the actions taken to protect citizen ?
Are you going to start a war with China ? LOL, sure... Break the economic ties ? Also lol for very obvious reasons... So why does it matter ? What does it change ?

Genuine question as I don't understand the fascination with this particular topic....

the worry is when we get another virus that has a breakout from a lab / animal cross over / whatever / whomever we will be in exactly the same mess again. Obv got nothing to do with EV's and GM but hey ho it's OT and some folks go round and round in twists and turns like a cambelt on a quad cam v8.

 

[K4fxd]

Imagine if instead

The old saying, wish in one hand and sh!t in the other and see what fills up first.
So the climate is warming, big deal. It has warmed before and will cool again.

When the better mouse trap, fuel, comes around no one will need to be forced into adopting it.

What are we talking about, 1 or 2 degrees avg in 100 plus years? This is not a crisis.

My electric went out for 3 days last week, I will gladly accept 1 or even 10 degrees of warming to keep my comfort. I don't want to go back to the 1800's. I like my central heat and A/C and I like it to be reliable.

Lets pretend it is 10 degrees warmer. Growing season's will move north. The northern parts of the US and Canada have very fertile soils. Food crops will be healthier. Yes we may lose some area near the equator but people will adapt.

The best part, in a few 1000 years there will be another Ice age and the wacko's will start crying "The sky is falling, if it cools off we will all die"

Truth mixed with humor and absurdity.

 

[raptor17GT]

The old saying, wish in one hand and sh!t in the other and see what fills up first.
So the climate is warming, big deal. It has warmed before and will cool again.

When the better mouse trap, fuel, comes around no one will need to be forced into adopting it.

What are we talking about, 1 or 2 degrees avg in 100 plus years? This is not a crisis.

My electric went out for 3 days last week, I will gladly accept 1 or even 10 degrees of warming to keep my comfort. I don't want to go back to the 1800's. I like my central heat and A/C and I like it to be reliable.

Lets pretend it is 10 degrees warmer. Growing season's will move north. The northern parts of the US and Canada have very fertile soils. Food crops will be healthier. Yes we may lose some area near the equator but people will adapt.

The best part, in a few 1000 years there will be another Ice age and the wacko's will start crying "The sky is falling, if it cools off we will all die"

Truth mixed with humor and absurdity.

yeah nice snip of my comment to make your point seem relevant.

The the problem with your ascension of an avg 1-2 degC making no difference is that being an avg means some places are up and some are down hence avg. Now if the deviation from that average was very small then your statement would be fine but sadly your sentiment is not backed up by measurements. The other problem is the rate of change for which this climate change is happening, it's too quick for most life to adapt and thus much bio diversity will be lost.

If the earth warmed by 10degC as per your statement above life as we know it would end. Humans have never had it that hot before. *It was 15million years ago since last time it was even 4degC hotter than todays averages and that rise in temperature took thousands of years to accomplish with resulting Sea levels up by more than 40metres from today. That's going to be more than just losing some areas near the equator.
*Miocene time apparently 20million to 5million years ago, caused by massive volcanic eruptions spewing out CO2.

Anyhow, hopefully not happen in our lifetime but if it does we got no one to blame but ourselves. Happy Tuesday to you all

 

[Gregs24]

yeah nice snip of my comment to make your point seem relevant.

The the problem with your ascension of an avg 1-2 degC making no difference is that being an avg means some places are up and some are down hence avg. Now if the deviation from that average was very small then your statement would be fine but sadly your sentiment is not backed up by measurements. The other problem is the rate of change for which this climate change is happening, it's too quick for most life to adapt and thus much bio diversity will be lost.

If the earth warmed by 10degC as per your statement above life as we know it would end. Humans have never had it that hot before. *It was 15million years ago since last time it was even 4degC hotter than todays averages and that rise in temperature took thousands of years to accomplish with resulting Sea levels up by more than 40metres from today. That's going to be more than just losing some areas near the equator.
*Miocene time apparently 20million to 5million years ago, caused by massive volcanic eruptions spewing out CO2.

Anyhow, hopefully not happen in our lifetime but if it does we got no one to blame but ourselves. Happy Tuesday to you all

You are wasting your time with that idiot. He knows better than all the worlds climatologists and meteorologists put together!

You will note that in general climate change deniers have moved on from ' it is all normal fluctuations etc' (because it is irrefutable now that it isn't) to 'well it doesn't matter anyway' and then 'there is nothing we can do about it'. All in order to avoid them having to change what they do in any way. They then claim freedom of speech and how precious THEIR freedoms are (sod the rest of us) before starting the whole thing over again.......

 

[sk47]

yeah nice snip of my comment to make your point seem relevant.

The the problem with your ascension of an avg 1-2 degC making no difference is that being an avg means some places are up and some are down hence avg. Now if the deviation from that average was very small then your statement would be fine but sadly your sentiment is not backed up by measurements. The other problem is the rate of change for which this climate change is happening, it's too quick for most life to adapt and thus much bio diversity will be lost.

If the earth warmed by 10degC as per your statement above life as we know it would end. Humans have never had it that hot before. *It was 15million years ago since last time it was even 4degC hotter than todays averages and that rise in temperature took thousands of years to accomplish with resulting Sea levels up by more than 40metres from today. That's going to be more than just losing some areas near the equator.
*Miocene time apparently 20million to 5million years ago, caused by massive volcanic eruptions spewing out CO2.

Anyhow, hopefully not happen in our lifetime but if it does we got no one to blame but ourselves. Happy Tuesday to you all

Hello; Nice try at a rebuttal, but you glossed over a salient point. He did not actually use degrees C in his post. Likely was referring to degrees F which makes a big difference. In C the temp scale is divided by different increments than F. In C zero is the freezing temp of pure water at a specific atmospheric pressure. Then 100 degrees C is set at the boiling point of pure water at specific pressure. In F freezing point temperature is set at 32 on a scale , while boiling point is set at 212 degrees on the scale.
Atmospheric pressure makes a big difference for the boiling point. At higher elevations water can boil at much lower real temperatures. Using a vacuum pump and chamber we can also boil water at much lower temperatures. Think of why a cars cooling system works under up to 15 PSI of pressure.
So, there is a significant difference between a C degree of temperature and an F degree of temperature.

Nice try anyway. But the try at a technical ploy to discredit someone's post fell a bit flat.

Many posts ago i made the point that according to the warming champions own talking points some warming is already baked in. Those predictions say no matter what we do today or in the next decades the warming will take place regardless. That it will be fifty (50)years or more before even the most drastic cuts in CO2 emissions have any real effect at the happiest estimate. Go back a few pages.

Whatever the cause of climate change may be, the reality seems to be we will have to adapt to or simply endure the coming warming. I also made the point of opportunity cost. If we spend too much treasure on the 'green' energy/EV agenda that treasure will not be available to help with adaptation. Of course i know the fantastical rebut to that. It is called "modern monetary theory". A fantasy land concept that there is no limit to spending money. I agree there is no limit to the printing of money but the resulting inflation will end that at some point.

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