Camber and toe adjustment parts

[Performance nut]

Two part question. Found that one of my rear wheels had excessive camber. I'm debating between Steeda and BMR adjustable rear camber arm. I have read that one of these doesn't lock well and can allow unplanned camber changes. So the first question is how well each brand is as far as long term use and how well they lock?

Once the camber arm is in and starts compensating for the excessive camber, I'm wondering if a toe adjustment will be necessary. My second question is do you need a toe adjustment when you aren't running custom toe settings?

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[Bridgie]

I have SPC Camber arms and Steeda Toe links.
Gives me the full flexibility for the rear end. I haven't seen any shift in settings since install, So I guess they lock.!

IME, You change one parameter, you've changed them all, albeit less influence than the fronts.

 

[beefcake]

Two part question. Found that one of my rear wheels had excessive camber. I'm debating between Steeda and BMR adjustable rear camber arm. I have read that one of these doesn't lock well and can allow unplanned camber changes. So the first question is how well each brand is as far as long term use and how well they lock?

Once the camber arm is in and starts compensating for the excessive camber, I'm wondering if a toe adjustment will be necessary. My second question is do you need a toe adjustment when you aren't running custom toe settings?

Both BMR and Steeda are great options and give a ton of adjustment options. Hit me up and I can help out with either route you want to go!

Feel free to DM me or call with any questions!
Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
- 855-827-7223 -
www.beefcakeracing.com
#beefcakeracing #teambeefcake

 

[AAD Performance]

Our camber arm and toe links lock the factory adjustment slots, and use an integrated tab system in the arm to make adjustments, no threaded rod and jam nuts. Ours have no chance of static alignment shift once locked, and offer the ability to quickly swap back and forth from race to street alignment, repeatably https://aadperformance.com/collections/mustang

The tombstone shaped tab seen in the arm, interfaces with a slotted hole; so different tabs have the bolt hole in different locations along the length of the tab. This allows for precise alignment and repeatable alignment changes.

 

[Labradog]

Rear camber is adjustable from the factory. No aftermarket parts needed.

 

[Performance nut]

Rear camber is adjustable from the factory. No aftermarket parts needed.

Yes you are correct.

Our camber arm and toe links lock the factory adjustment slots, and use an integrated tab system in the arm to make adjustments, no threaded rod and jam nuts. Ours have no chance of static alignment shift once locked, and offer the ability to quickly swap back and forth from race to street alignment, repeatably https://aadperformance.com/collections/mustang

The tombstone shaped tab seen in the arm, interfaces with a slotted hole; so different tabs have the bolt hole in different locations along the length of the tab. This allows for precise alignment and repeatable alignment changes.

Funny you responded on this thread, I was just reading another thread and saw your product. Some questions for you if you don't mind:

• I don't understand how the sliding adjustment is able to withstand the forces applied to it and not move. The other solutions put the force directly on the locking mechanism parallel to the way they move whereas yours puts the forces perpendicular to the direction your locking mechanism engages. Could you elaborate on the testing you all have done that proves the design? I'm not trying to be rude at all, I do road course racing and I'm concerned about the forces generated on these bolts would cause them to slip, bend, or sheer.
• Maybe I'm blind but do your arms have grease fittings. I'm sorry if they do, I'm just not seeing it. Perhaps I need more caffeine.
• Do you know the range of adjustment that your arms allow? I'm not looking to do anything insane but was curious the adjustment range of these arms.

 

[kz]

If you change camber you will need to adjust the toe.

Stock camber arm adjustment is by sliding the inboard arm in the slot - which is why some of the aftermarket arms can slide in it under heavy loads.

SPC and AAD camber arms come with a lockouts (however AAD lockout plate still have some freedom of movement in one direction).
There is also BMR and Moog part that locks out inboard mount.

If you just need to adjust camber, you can still do it with stock parts, it's just little painful.

 

[Performance nut]

If you change camber you will need to adjust the toe.

Stock camber arm adjustment is by sliding the inboard arm in the slot - which is why some of the aftermarket arms can slide in it under heavy loads.

SPC and AAD camber arms come with a lockouts (however AAD lockout plate still have some freedom of movement in one direction).
There is also BMR and Moog part that locks out inboard mount.

If you just need to adjust camber, you can still do it with stock parts, it's just little painful.

Pain isn't what I'm trying to avoid. The alignment on the rear of my car was pretty much perfect the last two times I went in but yet I have uneven wear on my rear tires. I need to go in and see what has changed but this is pretty significant. As in one tire has tread on the inside and the other is showing cord. I have a feeling that there is significant deflection going on and is causing uneven wear. Inspection revealed nothing unusual (as in damaged suspension components or gross adjustment differences) though I expect the alignment will. From what we are seeing, both tires should show the same amount of wear.

Thank you for pointing out the lockouts. I'm really trying to eliminate as much deflection and alignment "drift" as possible. Also, thanks for confirming my thoughts on the toe adjustment. I don't really mess around with toe but figured if you start making changes to one, you will eventually have to make changes to others. Thank you very much for this feedback.

 

[AAD Performance]

Yes you are correct.


Funny you responded on this thread, I was just reading another thread and saw your product. Some questions for you if you don't mind:

• I don't understand how the sliding adjustment is able to withstand the forces applied to it and not move. The other solutions put the force directly on the locking mechanism parallel to the way they move whereas yours puts the forces perpendicular to the direction your locking mechanism engages. Could you elaborate on the testing you all have done that proves the design? I'm not trying to be rude at all, I do road course racing and I'm concerned about the forces generated on these bolts would cause them to slip, bend, or sheer.
• Maybe I'm blind but do your arms have grease fittings. I'm sorry if they do, I'm just not seeing it. Perhaps I need more caffeine.
• Do you know the range of adjustment that your arms allow? I'm not looking to do anything insane but was curious the adjustment range of these arms.

As for the sliding, the stainless steel tabs are recessed into the aluminum arm, You’d tear the mounting ears out of the cradle before you’d get the tab to push through the aluminum in compression. The two high strength bolts are loaded in shear, while the arms use a tongue and grove system to eliminate other forces acting on the bolts.

We test all our products in FEA software with a large safety factor to ensure our products can handle anything.

We also use this system on all our charger/challenger products which see substantially higher forces due to their suspension design and weight of the vehicle. 7sec 4200lb fastest redeye in the world couldn’t break our parts.

There are no grease fittings on the part for good reason, contrary to many products out there. You don’t want the bushing to rotate in the arm, you want the metal sleeve inside the bushing to rotate within the bushing. So adding a grease fitting would be a detriment to the design. We pre grease the bushing bores upon assembly and include a packet of grease with each order that has these bushings.

Our adjustment in our CAMBER arms is rather fine, we can go plus or minus 9mm in arm length, which is a good range but excludes the extremes of negative and positive. To solve this we developed an offset lockout that can be flipped based on your desired camber out come. So you are either locked outboard(closer to zero and can get positive) or locking inboard(can get -3.5* to 0*)

So we can hit -3.5* to +1* camber, and our toe we can really go anywhere with.

It’s not rude to question a product, especially something newish, we’ve been doing this for 10+ years but mostly stayed in our lane in the Mopar market but we thought we’d share the love.

 

[WItoTX]

I have the AAD arms. I actually have several photos posted in my build thread. They are a great part, and the biggest issues I have had with them is user error on my end. I can give you some real world figures I've gotten out of mine, but the reality is the S550 really likes -2 degrees rear camber on the track. You won't be upset with the AAD arms, and their customer service is great. I also have some pointers if you install. Like lower the rear cradle one side at a time to get more access to the mounting ears on the frame, especially on the drivers side. AAD has the lockout, and it works well. You might as well do the subframe bushing while you are at it to really lock the cradle in place. I wish I would have done my camber arms this way. The arm itself is also lighter than factory, which is nice for reducing unsprung weight.

However, camber often isn't the thing wearing out tires. You may want to check your toe. I have pretty significant negative camber (-3 up front, -2.3 rear), and the tires still wear very evenly. However, after I went to a track alignment (Toe out up front, toe in rear), I found the tires wear a lot faster. My two cents, if you are a perfectionist, look at a threaded and jam nut type toe link. If you don't need to dial your toe in to the 1/2 mm level, the AAD arms are fantastic.

 

[Performance nut]

As for the sliding, the stainless steel tabs are recessed into the aluminum arm, You’d tear the mounting ears out of the cradle before you’d get the tab to push through the aluminum in compression. The two high strength bolts are loaded in shear, while the arms use a tongue and grove system to eliminate other forces acting on the bolts.

We test all our products in FEA software with a large safety factor to ensure our products can handle anything.

We also use this system on all our charger/challenger products which see substantially higher forces due to their suspension design and weight of the vehicle. 7sec 4200lb fastest redeye in the world couldn’t break our parts.

There are no grease fittings on the part for good reason, contrary to many products out there. You don’t want the bushing to rotate in the arm, you want the metal sleeve inside the bushing to rotate within the bushing. So adding a grease fitting would be a detriment to the design. We pre grease the bushing bores upon assembly and include a packet of grease with each order that has these bushings.

Our adjustment in our CAMBER arms is rather fine, we can go plus or minus 9mm in arm length, which is a good range but excludes the extremes of negative and positive. To solve this we developed an offset lockout that can be flipped based on your desired camber out come. So you are either locked outboard(closer to zero and can get positive) or locking inboard(can get -3.5* to 0*)

So we can hit -3.5* to +1* camber, and our toe we can really go anywhere with.

It’s not rude to question a product, especially something newish, we’ve been doing this for 10+ years but mostly stayed in our lane in the Mopar market but we thought we’d share the love.

I appreciate the last remark. People get really emotionally invested in their product and sometimes take things personal. Glad that isn't the case with you all.

The two questions I have left have to do with the part about the Redeye comparison and the lockout design. I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the forces exerted during a drag race but I am familiar with forces exerted on a road course. Is there anyone that can compare the forces exerted by a 7sec 4200lb Redeye vs a 3800lb Mustang pulling 1.2G's in a corner? I wouldn't even know how to compare these types of forces or if they are even comparable.

7 seconds means a significant amount of power and starting from 0mph is going to exert a significant amount of force on the drivetrain (and in turn suspension). The question is how much of that force gets exerted on the camber arm during those periods? For my application, I am more concerned with high-speed turns. On a high-speed turn, I would say a significant increase in loading on these arms as forces are trying to rotate the wheel in one direction (especially the outboard wheel). Granted this arm isn't taking all of the force (sway bar, strut, and spring are also taking load) but they do see an increased load.

In regard to the way your lockouts work, I'm curious if this is good or bad for my application. If I am reading this right, the way your lockout works is that you will still see dynamic camber changes in a turn; however, the arm will resist more or less depending on how you have that lockout positioned. If I have it flipped inboard (which for road racing I would see that as what you would want), I see this optimal for the most outboard wheel where you are going to see forces trying to push the wheel towards 0*. But the inboard wheel is going to try and get more negative where I see this doing very little to prevent. I may be wrong here which is why I ask the question.

 

[AAD Performance]

I appreciate the last remark. People get really emotionally invested in their product and sometimes take things personal. Glad that isn't the case with you all.

The two questions I have left have to do with the part about the Redeye comparison and the lockout design. I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the forces exerted during a drag race but I am familiar with forces exerted on a road course. Is there anyone that can compare the forces exerted by a 7sec 4200lb Redeye vs a 3800lb Mustang pulling 1.2G's in a corner? I wouldn't even know how to compare these types of forces or if they are even comparable.

7 seconds means a significant amount of power and starting from 0mph is going to exert a significant amount of force on the drivetrain (and in turn suspension). The question is how much of that force gets exerted on the camber arm during those periods? For my application, I am more concerned with high-speed turns. On a high-speed turn, I would say a significant increase in loading on these arms as forces are trying to rotate the wheel in one direction (especially the outboard wheel). Granted this arm isn't taking all of the force (sway bar, strut, and spring are also taking load) but they do see an increased load.

In regard to the way your lockouts work, I'm curious if this is good or bad for my application. If I am reading this right, the way your lockout works is that you will still see dynamic camber changes in a turn; however, the arm will resist more or less depending on how you have that lockout positioned. If I have it flipped inboard (which for road racing I would see that as what you would want), I see this optimal for the most outboard wheel where you are going to see forces trying to push the wheel towards 0*. But the inboard wheel is going to try and get more negative where I see this doing very little to prevent. I may be wrong here which is why I ask the question.

The lock out design has a small amount of play to account for variations in the cradle, the mounting points for the camber arm are stamped out of steel and welded, there are tolerances to this. If we designed it to match perfect with the factory cad models, it wouldn’t fit in some cars. It’s just the nature of manufacturing. The “slight play” is about 0.007” or about a .178mm which equates to 0.026 degrees of camber based on our findings (which is well within the error of an alignment rack, so it’s a negligible number really). But once the bolt is torqued down they don’t move.

What you are setting when you set your camber is your static camber, camber changes as the suspension articulates up and down, all road going cars do, how much depends on the vehicles suspension geometry.

The cornering of a vehicle does exhibit at different load on the camber arm than that of a drag strip launch, these arms aren’t designed to do just one or the other.

When cornering, the arm on the outside will mostly see a compression load (the knuckle trying to collapse in towards the centerline of the car), and the inside will see some tension, while both see a bending moment.

These loads are much easier to deal with than the shock loading of a drag launch.

We have parameters that the designs must meet, based on suspension geometry, vehicle weight, and possible loadings. We exaggerate every scenario to the extreme, and have yet to have a control arm failure yet.

Parker (the owner of AAD) and I are both engineers, we’re not fabricators playing connect the dots with steel tube. We take the testing and development of our parts very seriously and are dedicated to producing the finest product we can.

 

[Performance nut]

When will your electric blue camber arms be back in stock?

 

[S550 Recon]

Two part question. Found that one of my rear wheels had excessive camber. I'm debating between Steeda and BMR adjustable rear camber arm. I have read that one of these doesn't lock well and can allow unplanned camber changes. So the first question is how well each brand is as far as long term use and how well they lock?

Once the camber arm is in and starts compensating for the excessive camber, I'm wondering if a toe adjustment will be necessary. My second question is do you need a toe adjustment when you aren't running custom toe settings?

Honestly, many people buy things that are not really needed for this platform. In the case of camber, I have found that a lowered car (average drop) can simply pull the camber links out to their full outboard position, and be perfectly fine. On average when doing this you can get around -0.30 camber on each side. It is not the "0" that all the drag race folks run, but in 99.9% of applications where road course activities are not involved, just a few simple mods and a solid alignment is all that one needs. A good setup that will perform as good as an IRS with thousands invested is, a good IRS Lockout kit, FP toe bearing, RLCA bearing, centering sleeves and a good alignment. The other parts all have their places and look cool in a photo, but truly are not "that" important.

 

[AAD Performance]

When will your electric blue camber arms be back in stock?

Literally today, Just picked them up from anodize.
I’ll have them back in stock on the site by the morning time tomorrow

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