Anyone else wanna see a return of boss 302?

[17Magnetic5.0]

..wonder if there is more room in the engine bay of an S197 as
opposed to a S550?
Which car could handle the 7.1 engine better?

I think the s550 may have a wider and longer engine bay but the s197 has a taller one. If memory serves me correctly I think the engines in the s197 were a little more crammed. But this is just going off memory so I may be wrong.

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[WildHorse]

s197 was the best thing on wheels

At the time, sure. But now there's a new Sheriff in town.. well since 2015 haha.

 

[17Magnetic5.0]

If anything I think a new boss 302 would have to be special like the old s197 was. The s197 boss was special because although it was still a 5.0 it had lots of upgrades that made it a different animal. With the Mach 1 and Bullitts the engine is essentially just a basic 5.0 with bolt ons.

 

[WildHorse]

18+ PP2 is the BOSS you seek.

 

[ICU812]

I want it to be a naturally aspirated 5.0 with about 540-570 horsepower and have it be a raw power muscle car and not all about corners

Then you want a 325hp 350-400ftlb car with no torque management. old school muscle cars FELT fast because the power delivery was brutal, no nanny controls or computer pulling power out to keep from breaking or wearing out parts fast. That ship has sailed decades ago.
It is why an honest 350 hp old school car feels fast and a 450hp new one does not, the new breed is too refined, too smooth.
A 327 cid 350 hp car let you know and feel every hp, a 350 hp new v6 you don't. even when you bury the hammer through the floor boards. Were as the 327/350hp even just idle'n down the road let you know there is a beast under your right foot.
That is the charm of the old muscle and built cars, they feel brutal, even if they don't do much very well.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Then you want a 325hp 350-400ftlb car with no torque management. old school muscle cars FELT fast because the power delivery was brutal, no nanny controls or computer pulling power out to keep from breaking or wearing out parts fast. That ship has sailed decades ago.

I'm with Mr Whiskers on this - perhaps on a strictly objective standpoint that last bit may be true, but from an overall driving perspective it has not.

It is why an honest 350 hp old school car feels fast and a 450hp new one does not, the new breed is too refined, too smooth.

Exactly. If I wanted refinement and smoothness I'd shop a bit further up-market.

That is the charm of the old muscle and built cars, they feel brutal, even if they don't do much very well.

Going all the way back to the original muscle car years, that's true. It's not nearly as true for the more recent S197 interpretation in particular. You do have to put more of your own research, effort and expense into it to make it approach today's cars' potential performance levels, but that plays right into the :built not bought" line of thinking. Which is fun in and of itself, especially if you can appreciate a "less is more" sort of attitude.


Norm

 

[oneheadlite]

...did the GT350R have a wider body or was it just
widened @ the fender wells for tires???????

 

[T.O.Bullitt]

The GT350 is the new “Boss302“.

And here I always thought that the GT350 was the new GT350!
You can learn so much on this forum!

 

[ICU812]

I'm with Mr Whiskers on this - perhaps on a strictly objective standpoint that last bit may be true, but from an overall driving perspective it has not.



Exactly. If I wanted refinement and smoothness I'd shop a bit further up-market.



Going all the way back to the original muscle car years, that's true. It's not nearly as true for the more recent S197 interpretation in particular. You do have to put more of your own research, effort and expense into it to make it approach today's cars' potential performance levels, but that plays right into the :built not bought" line of thinking. Which is fun in and of itself, especially if you can appreciate a "less is more" sort of attitude.


Norm

Go drive a 427 side oiler then a S197, the latter is too refined.
Sure the S197 isn't as refined as today's s550 but the s197 already was too smooth.
A side oiler 427 or a 428 c/j while idling is telling you, this vehicle can kill you if you don't respect it's power.
No s197 did/does that, nor does any s550 even the shelby gt500 r acts too tame, to put fear into the person just by sitting in it and starting it.
Start a old school muscle and it jumped and barked telling you it needs to be on a leash.
Other than a loud exhaust the new stuff does not, The car is not shaking with every pulse, it has 15 different computers to help keep you safe, and keep the drive train in one piece. Modern cars are much faster and "may" have more power but drive like you took them to a spay and neuter clinic.
For those that never drove the old school beast, they'll never understand the love affair of vehicles that did nothing well, but could kill you in an instant .
The character of the vehicles made them legends, not that they were fast or handled well.

 

[T.O.Bullitt]

… the love affair of vehicles that did nothing well, but could kill you in an instant .
The character of the vehicles made them legends, not that they were fast or handled well.

Sounds like some kind of abusive, co-dependant relationship with a car.
Or maybe autoerotism means something completely different than I thought?
Where’s that guy who says an old GT500 is like a new Boss 302, or whatever the hell it is he said, maybe he can set us straight on this black widow Mustang thing, as I’m getting more confused with every post on this thread, which just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser

 

[T.O.Bullitt]

Mind. Blown.

 

[ICU812]

Sounds like some kind of abusive, co-dependant relationship with a car.
Or maybe autoerotism means something completely different than I thought?
Where’s that guy who says an old GT500 is like a new Boss 302, or whatever the hell it is he said, maybe he can set us straight on this black widow Mustang thing, as I’m getting more confused with every post on this thread, which just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser

old school= riding pissed off bull
new breed,= riding a pony

Old school it took skill and brass balls to push to the limits and over them.
New breed, you can push to 9/10th of it's limits without having any performance driving skill at all.
Making them a different kind of dangerous, giving the driver a false sense of skill and then oops.
The old school, never masked it's willingness to harm those that dared strap into the driver seat.

 

[Cobra Jet]

NO ! I want to see a return of a Boss 429 Mustang.

^^^^ THAT! I've been saying it for years - the B9 Retro is due...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Go drive a 427 side oiler then a S197, the latter is too refined.
Sure the S197 isn't as refined as today's s550 but the s197 already was too smooth.
A side oiler 427 or a 428 c/j while idling is telling you, this vehicle can kill you if you don't respect it's power.
No s197 did/does that, nor does any s550 even the shelby gt500 r acts too tame, to put fear into the person just by sitting in it and starting it.
Start a old school muscle and it jumped and barked telling you it needs to be on a leash.
Other than a loud exhaust the new stuff does not, The car is not shaking with every pulse, it has 15 different computers to help keep you safe, and keep the drive train in one piece. Modern cars are much faster and "may" have more power but drive like you took them to a spay and neuter clinic.
For those that never drove the old school beast, they'll never understand the love affair of vehicles that did nothing well, but could kill you in an instant .
The character of the vehicles made them legends, not that they were fast or handled well.

When I look at a car, its engine is not the only thing I consider. Truth be told, as long as the car is "adequately powerful", the engine isn't even the top thing on my mind.

I do agree with your comment about it being the character of the earlier cars that made them legends. Many times it's the warts and imperfections - their lack of refinement - that make that happen.


FWIW, I've always been what you might call a "small-block" kind of guy, where the car only needs to impress me (typically with better overall balance than their big-block siblings and with more power than the traditional sports roadsters of the day). I respected the big blocks but never really wanted one. Too one-sided and just not my thing.


My '08 GT was arguably the closest thing available new in 2008 to what the original Boss 302 was for its time. And still relatively unrefined in terms of nannies and feature content. Performance-wise I'm mainly talking about road course here, where both cars had potential beyond their regular production form. The S197 is far better in terms of chassis and suspension development.


Norm

 

[4leghorse]

People’s are out here paying almost 60k for a 5.0 with bigger tires and a gt500 spoiler……. Boss 302 going to be a nice 65k

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