Gun owners living in gun control states

[Loki-GT]

Never ever will I give up my right to own firearms. On another thread months ago I went into detail about a scenario where some ass clown almost had his way with someone close to me...family. My mother stopped him dead in his tracks and he's still paying the price for trying to rape my family member. My grandfather came here in the early 1900's from Sicily and by the 1950's he was the head of the liquor board of the state of Maryland. He always said ''When the government tries to take your guns, it's time to worry''. Our right to bear arms is intended for us to fight off tyranny from our government, not for hunting or target shooting. The need for a 30 round magazine is obvious...if an angry mob is coming at you, do you want a bolt action 5 shot dear rifle or that 30 round magazine?

Nomadic, you have a right to your opinion, but I completely disagree with you.

Venezuela is a good example of what happens when people turn in their guns and the Government then bans them. Now they can do nothing while the Government thugs prevent supplies from reaching the people who need it the most.Once a right is taken you don't get it back and my response to anybody willing to give up their guns or insist I get rid of mine is molon labe. I immigrated here because this is the best country on earth, slowly over the past 50 years I have watched while it tries to become like the country the Founders fought so hard to free themselves from. You think we had taxation without representation back then, it pales compared to today, when they come for the guns, which they will only they are going backwards through ammunition, who is going to stop them?

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[Grintch]

I'd like to make two points:

1. You don't understand mathematics, and....
   
2. Neither does the moron that wrote that garbage on the dodgy website you visited.

My engineering degree says different.

I also verified his chart directly from his (generally anti-gun) data sources, because I wanted a closer look at the countries and how they ranked. As noted, with so many countries, only every 3rd or so was labeled.
Homicide data from United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) Gun ownership from the Swiss Small Arms Survey. A summary of the Swiss Small Arms Summary is on Wikipedia if your attention span is too short to look at the official report.

So how do your qualifications compare to a Criminologist (Professor Mauser) ? Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Might want to look at US Government Studies that couldn't clearly find a positive effect on gun control despite being written by generally pro gun control authors.

2004 National Institute of Justice study of the assault weapons ban.

A 2005 Centers for Disease Control study that looked at a wide variety of anti-gun laws also could not verify the effectiveness of any or all of them in reducing crimes.

 

[Loki-GT]

Japan, Australia, UK, Germany has no 2nd Amendment and no NRA. And you can only own a gun there under stringent circumstances. Somehow......must be a coincidence.......the gun homicide per capita rate is minuscule compared to the US. They don't have weekly mass shootings.

The USA gun culture is perpetuated at its core by ego driven people who think having a gun is a good thing that's going to protect them. Yet all the research shows the more guns in a society, the more unsafe it is.
My neighbor went to Las Vegas and never came back. She was shot in the head while dancing at a country music concert. Having a gun wouldn't have helped her. A law that prohibits someone owning/purchasing AR-15s might have. In Nevada it's legal to own 32 of them. Does that sound like common sense?

People flip out all the time in all societies. When someone decides they don't want to live anymore and are going to take others with them, in the USA, they have access to a gun and go from a "good guy" to a mass murderer. It happens over and over and over. Needlessly.

The 2nd amendment has no relevance to today's world and wasn't written based on private gun ownership. It's a crutch for the delusional to manipulate.
Guns are a cancer to the USA. The NRA is a cancer. Australia has had ZERO mass shootings since their gun ban. The USA and their delusional anti-factual beliefs and thoughts and prayers mentality will ensure that mass murder continues here. It's despicable.

Mass shooting 5/11/18 worst since 1996. You'd think you would look it up first before posting. The rifles were licensed by the way. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/world/australia/worst-mass-shooting-margaret-river.html

Belgium, France the Netherlands have similar mass shooting rates as the US but far stricter gun laws than Australia. I personally only care about the USA, other countries can do as they wish as they are their own country and how they surrender their rights (if they have that many) is up to them. Calling us delusional because of your own beliefs helps nobody and you don't have the facts to back it up. The countries in the past that gave in to their Government over-reach, recently Venezuela, are now utterly incapable of defending themselves from their Government. It's horribly disgusting what's happening there, Nigerian Christians are being slaughtered, no guns allowed, but hey who even cares about them the media sure doesn't so we'll just continue to ignore what's going on there.

People don't like the system in the United States, don't have to live here, the reason why nobody has invaded this country is because 100 million of us are armed and not one country would dare attempt it, including our own Government. Instead they will do it the back door through ammunition and illegal laws, if they are willing to ignore immigration laws and voting laws, whos to stop them from ignoring the 2nd amendment? So thank you but we'll keep our rights, the 2nd amendment is not negotiable no matter how delusional people are about how it help us.

 

[Jimmy G]

My engineering degree says different.

I also verified his chart directly from his (anti-gun) data sources, because I wanted a closer look at the countries and how they ranked. As noted, with so many countries, only every 3rd or so was labeled.

So how do your qualifications compare to a Criminologist? Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

I'll ask the questions, Mr Engineer, 'cos yours are moronic.

Are you willing and able to post the link to this two bob (<<<you can google that) criminologists website? I'd like a laugh.

 

[ctandc72]

I'll ask the questions, Mr Engineer, 'cos yours are moronic.

Are you willing and able to post the link to this two bob (<<<you can google that) criminologists website? I'd like a laugh.

Did you not read ANY of the responses? You surely didn't respond to any of my questions. He spelled it out for you. He literally spoon fed you the data, and you make snide remarks - because you have no intelligent response. And the "two bob" criminologist? He's anti-gun - like you. LMAO

 

[Nomadic]

People don't like the system in the United States, don't have to live here, the reason why nobody has invaded this country is because 100 million of us are armed and not one country would dare attempt it, including our own Government.

Written like a true paranoid gun nut. When was Japan invaded recently? England? Australia? And b/c of our gun ownership we're not invaded? Moron rednecks like you are the reason mass shootings will continue to exist in this country and by people who simply flip out yet has easy access to guns. The NRA preys on insecure losers like yourself. All at the expense of innocents dying for no reason. The USA is the only 1st world country with this problem and the only country that does nothing about it but defend guns. Hope your loved one isn't the next to die. Oh yeah, they won't b/c they'll be walking around armed and ready right? Pathetic.

 

[Nomadic]

I'd like to make two points:

1. You don't understand mathematics, and....
   
2. Neither does the moron that wrote that garbage on the dodgy website you visited.

Jimmy G, you are talking to brainwashed idiots. It's like talking to someone who joined ISIS practically. The gun morons in this country and they are in the millions, are delusional. They have to be. That's the only way you can be if you look at how countries with strict gun control and their exponentially less gun homicides per capita.........and then look at....America....with 340 mass shootings along in 2018 (3 or more killed in a public place) and say.....America doesn't have a gun problem! Sure a lot of shooting are in the ghettos of Chicago by gangs. Where do those guns come from? Across state borders with lax gun laws...like Indiana.

But how many shootings has the USA had where many died non-gang related? Was Las Vegas? Movie theatres? Workplace? Countless school shootings? Nightclubs? Offices? Does this happen at this frequency (or at all) in countries with strict gun laws? Of course not. Not even close.

The USA has a cancerous gun culture and a corrupt right wing leadership that sucks the NRA's d!ck for $$$. Kindergartners get lined up and shot.....but I guess that's worth it so you can have a gun in your house to shoot down all those criminals that are after your Smart TV. That's after you of course retrieve it from your safe.

My neighbor, a 42yr old attorney, went to Vegas and while she was hanging out listening to music, her brains got blown out b/c a guy with no criminal record legally bought 32 AR-15s and decided to use them. Good ol' NRA sees no problem with that. And if she was armed, hey maybe she could have fired back at the hotel, right? Let's just "hope and pray" nobody does that again. What a strategy!! That's how your govt protects you.

The 2nd amendment has no context in today's world. It wasn't written for today's world but it's used as a crutch and as a result, people die needlessly. Until the NRA, gun culture and the 2nd Amendment is burned like it should be, more innocents will die. And the insecure losers with their guns will still cling to them for their manhood.

One day the USA will have gun laws like Japan or Australia but thousands more need to die first. Then they'll look in the history books at this time and realize how despicably the NRA and completely incompetent the USA was with it's gun laws/culture.

 

[Nomadic]

After some nut killed 35 people in the southern island state of Tasmania in 1996, the ruling conservative government clamped down on our gun laws. They bought back and destroyed guns, outlawed a bunch of them, made it harder to get a license, created a national gun registry, etc.

​

We went 22 YEARS without a mass shooting. Then last year some farmer with a screw loose shot his wife, daughter and his four grandchildren before topping himself. That's it.....one mass shooting in 22 years.

Your politics is so toxic there will be a lot of needless bloodshed before your country wakes up to itself, but it will happen. The first step will be to get the money out of politics....and that'll be quite a way off for you guys. Your billionaires drive the agenda, they control the narrative, they influence your candidates and they tell you what to think. You mightn't think so, but they do.

Yes, Jimmy G. You are spot on. If our leaders had any balls and any brains, we'd have done the same. Instead we get gun nuts and mass shooting after mass shooting and the USA does NOTHING. Thanks to the NRA and gun culture who refuse to look at facts but think everyone walking around armed like the Old West is going to be a safe society. Delusional morons.

 

[Snakes&horses]

Yes, Jimmy G. You are spot on. If our leaders had any balls and any brains, we'd have done the same. Instead we get gun nuts and mass shooting after mass shooting and the USA does NOTHING. Thanks to the NRA and gun culture who refuse to look at facts but think everyone walking around armed like the Old West is going to be a safe society. Delusional morons.

Maybe you and Jimmy G should get a quaint little house together on utopia island where you guys can sip your cool aid and tell each other how awesome each other is while practicing your liberal talking points and predetermined government issued insults towards any opposing point of view. You epitomize the term sheeple and your ignorant insults tell the majority that you have no intelligent argument. .... sorry,was my flag emoji offensive??

 

[Interceptor]

Let's keep this conversation civilized without name calling, when language is used that insults people they tend to walk away with from conversation.

It is agreed that we all believe strongly one way or the other. This has nothing to do with IQs

 

[Nomadic]

Maybe you and Jimmy G should get a quaint little house together on utopia island where you guys can sip your cool aid and tell each other how awesome each other is while practicing your liberal talking points and predetermined government issued insults towards any opposing point of view. You epitomize the term sheeple and your ignorant insults tell the majority that you have no intelligent argument. .... sorry,was my flag emoji offensive??

Exactly. This is what a gun nut's response will always be like. They have no argument. Or did I miss what it was? What are they going to say? The USA is safer with 300 million guns? Is that why half of the world's gun homicides occur in our country alone? What are the gun nuts proposals for keeping us safe?
EVERYONE should be armed EVERYWHERE ALWAYS. Do you literally think a society where everyone is armed and ready to shoot their fellow man is a civil way for a 1st world country to function? Do you really think there will be LESS shootings with everyone armed? Think about that. That IS the recipe from the NRA for a safe society. Everyone armed everywhere. Does that sound like a civilized society? It sounds like a 3rd world country. It's literally insane.

Just as insane as someone calling me a "liberal" b/c myself like many others in this country want to see an end to senseless shootings b/c everyone has easy access to guns. You don't know me. I'm as far from liberal as it gets. I don't believe in the govt rewarding laziness. I think if you want to come this country enter freakin' legally. I'm anti-affirmative action. Bleeding heart liberals are as nuts as far out right wingers.

But make no mistake, gun lovers only argument for guns is "I want my guns." It's clearly selfish and at the expense of countless innocents murdered every year for nothing. All b/c in this country unlike others, if you decide you want to end it all and take lots with you.......as many do.........here....you have access to deadly weapons easily and quickly. And that is clearly wrong and an example how the Govt is failing at their primary job, which is to protect its people.

If you CANNOT see the correlation between a country like Japan with 126 million people which has had approx 50 shooting deaths in the past 10yrs......where it's nearly impossible to buy a gun...... vs the USA with a population 2.5 times the size of Japan..has over 15,000 gun related deaths per year.......you are either brain damaged or in extreme denial or both. Japan has shown what happens when a gun culture doesn't exist and extremely strict regulations are put on guns. People die at alarmingly lower rates. You think Japanese students are anxious about getting gunned down at school by a someone who can buy an AR-15 at the store?

Those are the facts. But the NRA and gun culture don't care about facts or whether you or your children die. They just want to keep their guns, $$$, and sell you a lie. Our statistics are proof of it. And if you support the NRA and the 2nd Amendment, good for you. You will basically GUARANTEE that the USA remains the gun homicide capital of the world per capita and that mass shootings will continue and more innocents will die. There's never going to be a shortage of people flipping out and turning homicidal and in the USA, thanks to the NRA and our gun culture, there will never be a shortage of guns for that person to inflict mass carnage. Hope your loved one isn't next.

 

[Nomadic]

The following is the sanctioned algorithm for assigning motive to a mass shootings in America by the gun community:

1) First step, determine the perpetrator's religion. If they're Muslim you're done! They are a radical Islamic terrorist motivated by their religion (which should heretofore be referred to as a pseudo-religion, political movement, or "death cult" in any discussion). The solution to the problem in these cases is to ban Islam and restrict immigration. It's irrelevant if the perp is a US born citizen or if said ban doesn't even include the perps or perps parents country of origin. The perps religion is the ONLY possible explanation for their motives and the above ban is the ONLY viable solution to prevent future attacks. If the perp is not Muslim move to step two in the algorithm.

2) Second step, if a non-Muslim committed the heinous act determine the perpetrator's race. If they are black you're done! The cause of the shooting is the lack or a moral compass in the black community, blacks inherent violent nature, Antifa, or black lives matter. The only possible solutions are harsher prison sentences, for-profit charter schools, reinstatement of school prayer, and tax cuts. If the perp is neither Muslim or black, move to step three.

3) Step three, is the shooter Hispanic by chance? If yes, the solutions are to build a MASSIVE BORDER wall across our entire Southern BORDER, permanently station US infantry / artillery / special forces along the US-Mexico border, end chain migration, deportation of all DACA recipients, and mandatory English education...TALK ‘Murican dammit! If the shooter is not Hispanic move to the next step below.

4) Is the shooter a teenager or a college kid? If yes, you’re done! The cause of the shooting is the nanny state, generational laziness, violent video games & movies, pre-marital sex, porn, and the absence of God (The Christian God) in schools. We need to ban all porn, ban all violent video games & movies, teach abstinence-only sex education, bring back school prayer, and slash all entitlement programs (except for Medicare and social security for the elderly...).

5) Can it be proven that the shooter is a registered Democrat? If yes, you’re done! The cause is the violent political ideology of the left. Didn’t you know the Nazis were Social Democrats? Didn’t you know that the Democratic Party of the early 20th century was pro-segregation? The only solution to save our Democracy is to have single party control of the Government and to make Trump & his family POTUS for life—that’s how you save Democracy!

6) Is the shooter a woman? If yes, this is a rare event but the cause is the loss of family values, no fault divorce, legalized abortion, easy access to contraception, and women’s inability to handle work related stress. We need to ban all abortion, contraception, and divorce to prevent such incidents in the future.

7) This is the final step. In this step the perpetrator is a white male that may or may not be a Christian. In these cases (which are the majority) the only possible explanation is mental illness. In these cases it is WAAAAY too soon to discuss doing anything! After all we cannot overreact to these situations by passing EXTREME new laws! The only option is to turn to prayer and realize that we are helpless to prevent further similar incidents. After some time for prayer and reflection, the only reasonable possible solution is to arm every man, woman, and child with large caliber firearms and mandate open carry at all times.

Please follow the above algorithm at all times to insure a productive, reality based discussion of gun violence in America.

 

[Snakes&horses]

Exactly. This is what a gun nut's response will always be like. They have no argument. Or did I miss what it was? What are they going to say? The USA is safer with 300 million guns? Is that why half of the world's gun homicides occur in our country alone? What are the gun nuts proposals for keeping us safe?
EVERYONE should be armed EVERYWHERE ALWAYS. Do you literally think a society where everyone is armed and ready to shoot their fellow man is a civil way for a 1st world country to function? Do you really think there will be LESS shootings with everyone armed? Think about that. That IS the recipe from the NRA for a safe society. Everyone armed everywhere. Does that sound like a civilized society? It sounds like a 3rd world country. It's literally insane.

Just as insane as someone calling me a "liberal" b/c myself like many others in this country want to see an end to senseless shootings b/c everyone has easy access to guns. You don't know me. I'm as far from liberal as it gets. I don't believe in the govt rewarding laziness. I think if you want to come this country enter freakin' legally. I'm anti-affirmative action. Bleeding heart liberals are as nuts as far out right wingers.

But make no mistake, gun lovers only argument for guns is "I want my guns." It's clearly selfish and at the expense of countless innocents murdered every year for nothing. All b/c in this country unlike others, if you decide you want to end it all and take lots with you.......as many do.........here....you have access to deadly weapons easily and quickly. And that is clearly wrong and an example how the Govt is failing at their primary job, which is to protect its people.

If you CANNOT see the correlation between a country like Japan with 126 million people which has had approx 50 shooting deaths in the past 10yrs......where it's nearly impossible to buy a gun...... vs the USA with a population 2.5 times the size of Japan..has over 15,000 gun related deaths per year.......you are either brain damaged or in extreme denial or both. Japan has shown what happens when a gun culture doesn't exist and extremely strict regulations are put on guns. People die at alarmingly lower rates. You think Japanese students are anxious about getting gunned down at school by a someone who can buy an AR-15 at the store?

Those are the facts. But the NRA and gun culture don't care about facts or whether you or your children die. They just want to keep their guns, $$$, and sell you a lie. Our statistics are proof of it. And if you support the NRA and the 2nd Amendment, good for you. You will basically GUARANTEE that the USA remains the gun homicide capital of the world per capita and that mass shootings will continue and more innocents will die. There's never going to be a shortage of people flipping out and turning homicidal and in the USA, thanks to the NRA and our gun culture, there will never be a shortage of guns for that person to inflict mass carnage. Hope your loved one isn't next.

Your right I don’t know you,...so how does it feel to have someone make a gross generalization or assumption about you?? Because you seem to do a lot of that on here ( like every gun owner is a redneck,insane moron etc etc) your stats are flawed and there’s no point in even trying to reason with you. You don’t want to listen to actual facts as stated above by many people ,instead dismissing them and flinging insults. Your the problem,not our guns. I’m done wasting my time with you since trying to reason with insanity or ignorance is pointless. Btw,...regarding your “ hope your loved one isn’t next “ comment,.... I’m not worried as we can defend ourselves however for your sake hopefully there’s an honest armed law abiding citizen around to save your a** god forbid a criminal decides to prey on your defenseless self because yelling stop or mean words isn’t gonna deter your attacker or protect you

 

[ctandc72]

Why is it that anti gun people can never have a discussion without resorting to personal insults?

@Nomadic

I sense a lot of anger. No facts, just moral outage.

Here’s a fact for you - American citizens have the 2nd Amendment. We don’t have to prove it to you. Run for office. Amend the constitution. Good luck.

 

[Hadelson]

Wow, classified as a nut because I am a firearms owner. Please become real and stop the insults.

For the record, I believe in the 2nd amendment- the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and am a member of the NRA.

Perhaps the issue might be deeply rooted within our cultures pre-disposition to murder centered in societies faults? Perhaps we don't teach our children to value life nor be responsible for their actions? Perhaps we allow our children to play violent video games, with a constant bombardment of violence via the Hollywood movie scene creating deep down in there subconscious its okay to commit violent acts?

Your point on Japan is factual but narrow in view. Remember Switzerland, Israel and other countries where firearms ownership is mandated as part of self-defense. Have you been there? I have - Japan too and many other examples of countries like this with no violence. Been to a lot of places where there is no private ownership of firearms and they are extremely violent with high murder rates and other violent crimes.

I'm sure you will have a good justification in mind and answer in a manner satisfying your view of things. It's your right to do so -Freedom of Speech.

Know this, as having travelled all around the world in defense of freedom, there remains many bad people out there who care less of our rights to exist. There are many bad people right here in the USA who don't care about you or me and will do anything to take what is yours and commit violent acts in the blink of an eye. I have the utmost respect for our Law Enforcement Officers.....but realistically, in the blink of an eye you are in a situation. The call to 911 won't do you a lick of good as it's over that fast and you become a victim. I believe in our citizens rights to protect themselves . I will not become a victim nor a sheeple. Yes, I was raised to have a good religious foundation, and believe in the 10 commandments.

Our founders had the foresight to create a document providing citizens the ability to protect ourselves from these bad people as well as a government that looses sight of the fact that they serve the people. It's a pipe dream to think otherwise. Utopia is what they teach in college and lives in our dreams, but in reality doesn't exist in today's world. Perhaps in the future, the USA and the world will achieve this. Until then, I choose to exercise my rights guaranteed by the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment.

V/R

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