Gun owners living in gun control states

[CAL Captain]

Where did you read this? Democrats only want gun control, not confisacstion.

And the Tooth Fairy is real.

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[Marino]

Japan, Australia, UK, Germany has no 2nd Amendment and no NRA. And you can only own a gun there under stringent circumstances. Somehow......must be a coincidence.......the gun homicide per capita rate is minuscule compared to the US. They don't have weekly mass shootings.

The USA gun culture is perpetuated at its core by ego driven people who think having a gun is a good thing that's going to protect them. Yet all the research shows the more guns in a society, the more unsafe it is.
My neighbor went to Las Vegas and never came back. She was shot in the head while dancing at a country music concert. Having a gun wouldn't have helped her. A law that prohibits someone owning/purchasing AR-15s might have. In Nevada it's legal to own 32 of them. Does that sound like common sense?

People flip out all the time in all societies. When someone decides they don't want to live anymore and are going to take others with them, in the USA, they have access to a gun and go from a "good guy" to a mass murderer. It happens over and over and over. Needlessly.

The 2nd amendment has no relevance to today's world and wasn't written based on private gun ownership. It's a crutch for the delusional to manipulate.
Guns are a cancer to the USA. The NRA is a cancer. Australia has had ZERO mass shootings since their gun ban. The USA and their delusional anti-factual beliefs and thoughts and prayers mentality will ensure that mass murder continues here. It's despicable.

Love how the statistics are manipulated to fit the left's agenda. You have to compare the violence to the population size as a ratio. Even with the statistics on our side, it's a God given right which is not up for debate. It is necessary for the security of the free state and ensures the people could overthrow a tyrannical government. It also allows a means of defense agains those who seek to do evil. The left is so quick to talk about a shooting as long as it wasn't justified or in self defense. It's crazy to me how left the democrats have gone. Exactly why Trump got elected.

 

[Hack]

It's a good question - I'm afraid of tyranny, but it seems as though a lot of Americans trust the government and think the government can do no wrong.

I asked my wife if it worries her when people in the government start to subpoena lots and lots of documents from anyone that is associated with Trump. Basically a fishing expedition looking for any possible crime they can find. Is this the future of our politics? If you say the wrong thing people will dig and dig to see whether they can find anything on you? 1984 anyone? And somehow she isn't worried and it bothered her that I even asked the question. Like it's my problem that black booted thugs remind me of Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, etc. Why wouldn't that unnerve me?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The USA gun culture is perpetuated at its core by ego driven people who think having a gun is a good thing that's going to protect them.

The 2nd amendment has no relevance to today's world and wasn't written based on private gun ownership. It's a crutch for the delusional to manipulate.

You are a victim of identity politics. I don't know if you chose to be or got tricked into it like so many. Keep thinking anyone who thinks or is any other way different than you is a wack job or evil. The puppet masters need that to make sure eyes can't be opened.

 

[Grintch]

Japan, Australia, UK, Germany has no 2nd Amendment and no NRA. And you can only own a gun there under stringent circumstances. Somehow......must be a coincidence.......the gun homicide per capita rate is minuscule compared to the US. They don't have weekly mass shootings.

The USA gun culture is perpetuated at its core by ego driven people who think having a gun is a good thing that's going to protect them. Yet all the research shows the more guns in a society, the more unsafe it is.
My neighbor went to Las Vegas and never came back. She was shot in the head while dancing at a country music concert. Having a gun wouldn't have helped her. A law that prohibits someone owning/purchasing AR-15s might have. In Nevada it's legal to own 32 of them. Does that sound like common sense?

People flip out all the time in all societies. When someone decides they don't want to live anymore and are going to take others with them, in the USA, they have access to a gun and go from a "good guy" to a mass murderer. It happens over and over and over. Needlessly.

The 2nd amendment has no relevance to today's world and wasn't written based on private gun ownership. It's a crutch for the delusional to manipulate.
Guns are a cancer to the USA. The NRA is a cancer. Australia has had ZERO mass shootings since their gun ban. The USA and their delusional anti-factual beliefs and thoughts and prayers mentality will ensure that mass murder continues here. It's despicable.

Please list the 10 weekly mass shootings so far in 2019.

US has more ethnic and cultural diversity on the average street corner than Australia or Japan has in the entire country.

I can't speak to the Australian crime rate, but I know Britain's is up a lot since it virtually banned guns. Despite banning samurai swords, knives, and "devil dogs" after guns. Of course the UK also has a lot more diversity than it used to.

The US crime rate is also down a lot since 1990 despite a big increase in the number of people with concealed carry permits and so called assault weapons.

The second amendment was intended to protect the citizens from government corruption and abuses. Something more relevant than ever, even if it's other goal of discouraging invasions is not.

 

[ctandc72]

Japan, Australia, UK, Germany has no 2nd Amendment and no NRA. And you can only own a gun there under stringent circumstances. Somehow......must be a coincidence.......the gun homicide per capita rate is minuscule compared to the US. They don't have weekly mass shootings.

328 million people in the United States.
@ 12,000 people died from being shot - by another person - with any firearm.

Literally more people died from accidental falls. That's straight from the CDC numbers.

Homicide by firearm doesn't even make the top 10 when it comes to deaths in this country. All those numbers come from the CDC. Anyone can go there and look through the data.

The USA gun culture is perpetuated at its core by ego driven people who think having a gun is a good thing that's going to protect them. Yet all the research shows the more guns in a society, the more unsafe it is.

Taking personal jabs at people who believe differently than you is surely a great way to discuss a topic. Funny about that research. Even groups who make no bones about being for much stricter control - even they estimate 80,000 SELF DEFENSE uses of firearms per year. That's the LOW estimate. In other words, guns are used in self defense more than 6 X times more than the deaths caused by them in a homicide.

My neighbor went to Las Vegas and never came back. She was shot in the head while dancing at a country music concert. Having a gun wouldn't have helped her. A law that prohibits someone owning/purchasing AR-15s might have. In Nevada it's legal to own 32 of them. Does that sound like common sense?

One of my good friends was killed by a drunk driver. A guy who had multiple DUI's already on his record. Is his death any less tragic than your neighbor? You think that outlawing AR-15's would have prevented that shooting? Does the FEDERAL law against convicted felons possessing firearms stop them from carrying and using a weapon in a crime across the country? Don't be so naive.

People flip out all the time in all societies. When someone decides they don't want to live anymore and are going to take others with them, in the USA, they have access to a gun and go from a "good guy" to a mass murderer. It happens over and over and over. Needlessly.

So what's next? Banning large trucks? Cars? You really believe that elected politicians have your best interests at heart? You really think they propose any of this legislation out of a desire to do the right thing? Firearms and deaths caused by them is an emotional topic.

Ironically - if you banned sugar (I don't think it should be banned - freedom of choice is freedom of choice) tomorrow, you'd save more lives over the next five years than the firearms deaths over the last 30 years.

The 2nd amendment has no relevance to today's world and wasn't written based on private gun ownership. It's a crutch for the delusional to manipulate.
Guns are a cancer to the USA. The NRA is a cancer. Australia has had ZERO mass shootings since their gun ban. The USA and their delusional anti-factual beliefs and thoughts and prayers mentality will ensure that mass murder continues here. It's despicable.

The 2nd amendment wasn't created to arm the militia. Any honest research into the wording and what the founders were thinking of (and going through at the time) when it was created would instantly negate that tired talking point. You think it's coincidence the 1st Amendment is the right to FREE speech and assembly and the 2nd is the right to have arms to defend yourself?

Australia doesn't have a gun ban. Do your own research and stop regurgitating memes and tired and often debunked talking points. Australia also doesn't have 320+ MILLION people. And even so called experts can't agree on whether or not the stricter gun laws in Australia led to lower homicide rates - since the rate was dropping BEFORE the laws took effect.

Every year more and more Americans become legal gun owners. Look at the number of shooting ranges in this country 5 years ago versus today. I guess the same people go to the range MORE and MORE to justify that increase in your mind?

So more guns here EVERY year - yet somehow the homicide and violent crime rates keep decreasing.

I won't make a personal judgement or insult you for what you believe. That's your right. But apparently it's okay in your mind to paint everyone who doesn't believe what you do as evil or morally bankrupt. You do you.

 

[Grintch]

Possibly the best demonstration of the effectiveness of gun control. 98% of mass shootings in the last 30 years have happened in "gun free" zones. It's a gun free zone, so by law completely safe, right?

Side note - In the last few years I have specifically looked at what the mass shooters were actually charged with. And I can't recall a case where they ever even bothered to charge them for having illegal guns, or carrying a gun in a gun free zone, or firing a gun in a municipal area, or one of the many other gun violations. Because another 10 years for a gun violation is not worth the prosecutions time for someone facing 20+ death or life sentences. So how is a new gun law going to stop mass shooters if no one even bothers to charge the shooter with the crime?

 

[cosmo]

Possibly the best demonstration of the effectiveness of gun control. 98% of mass shootings in the last 30 years have happened in "gun free" zones. It's a gun free zone, so by law completely safe, right?

Side note - In the last few years I have specifically looked at what the mass shooters were actually charged with. And I can't recall a case where they ever even bothered to charge them for having illegal guns, or carrying a gun in a gun free zone, or firing a gun in a municipal area, or one of the many other gun violations. Because another 10 years for a gun violation is not worth the prosecutions time for someone facing 20+ death or life sentences. So how is a new gun law going to stop mass shooters if no one even bothers to charge the shooter with the crime?

No. 98% is not representative. Multiple issues with his study. The opposition in this document is also not perfectly representative. Takes some critical thinking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-zones/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5af8da44d3f1

The whole point of a gun law is to try to restrict those who are allowed to own them, and closing loop holes. I'm tired of the attitude "oh darn it! haha! another one bypassed our laws, haha! can't do literally anything about that, sending thoughts and prayers dead people and children gonna change my facebook picture to show my support!" and not making any changes.

And your mass shooting criteria isn't the primary issue. What about the victims of murder in quantities less than 4 total victims? So if you are murdered and there are only 2 of you, you shouldn't be included in the discussion of people being killed by guns? It's nonsensical. Stopping all killings is obviously impossible, but dismissing attempts to reduce killings because is disappointing.

 

[ctandc72]

No. 98% is not representative. Multiple issues with his study. The opposition in this document is also not perfectly representative. Takes some critical thinking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-zones/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5af8da44d3f1

The whole point of a gun law is to try to restrict those who are allowed to own them, and closing loop holes. I'm tired of the attitude "oh darn it! haha! another one bypassed our laws, haha! can't do literally anything about that, sending thoughts and prayers dead people and children gonna change my facebook picture to show my support!" and not making any changes.

And your mass shooting criteria isn't the primary issue. What about the victims of murder in quantities less than 4 total victims? So if you are murdered and there are only 2 of you, you shouldn't be included in the discussion of people being killed by guns? It's nonsensical. Stopping all killings is obviously impossible, but dismissing attempts to reduce killings because is disappointing.

Closing what loop holes? That's my question. The only "loop hole" in Federal Firearms law is face to face private sales. That's not a loop hole.
And excuse me for not reading a Washington Post article on gun control. They once had an "investigative" reporter talk about how you could "Literally" buy a gun on the internet - legally.

Thing is you can't. You can PAY for one. But unless you have a FFL (Federal Firearms License) or a C&R (Curio and Relic - antique firearms) license, the seller MUST ship the firearm to a FFL holder near you - that you choose when you purchase it. Then to LEGALLY take possession of that firearm you have to go to that FFL once the gun arrives, fill out a Federal Form 4473, which the FFL then enters into the system for their state that runs your info through NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). If you FAIL that background check - you don't get the firearm. Even thought you paid for it.

Want to do something that might help at all?

Make straw buying have a harsh enough penalty that you take the profit out of it. Once you do that, that cuts a HUGE amount of the handguns making their way into the hands of those not legally allowed to own a firearm.

But what's the end game? Is it to save lives? Again - IF THAT WAS THE GOAL - why are we focused on firearms when it doesn't even make the top 10 causes of death in this country?

You are LITERALLY THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY to die in an accidental fall than you are to die from someone shooting you with a firearm. But accidental falls don't make good television and news reports.

All of the proposed legislation from Democrats on gun control is feel good security theater.

When you propose and support legislation what would instantly turn law abiding citizens into criminals - you might want to rethink your position.

The HARD question that seems to be off limits when it comes to this discussion is mental health. How many of the mass shooters in the U.S. had interactions with mental health professionals BEFORE the shootings where thoughts of committing violence were expressed?

 

[cosmo]

Closing what loop holes? That's my question. The only "loop hole" in Federal Firearms law is face to face private sales. That's not a loop hole.
And excuse me for not reading a Washington Post article on gun control. They once had an "investigative" reporter talk about how you could "Literally" buy a gun on the internet - legally.

Thing is you can't. You can PAY for one. But unless you have a FFL (Federal Firearms License) or a C&R (Curio and Relic - antique firearms) license, the seller MUST ship the firearm to a FFL holder near you - that you choose when you purchase it. Then to LEGALLY take possession of that firearm you have to go to that FFL once the gun arrives, fill out a Federal Form 4473, which the FFL then enters into the system for their state that runs your info through NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System). If you FAIL that background check - you don't get the firearm. Even thought you paid for it.

Want to do something that might help at all?

Make straw buying have a harsh enough penalty that you take the profit out of it. Once you do that, that cuts a HUGE amount of the handguns making their way into the hands of those not legally allowed to own a firearm.

But what's the end game? Is it to save lives? Again - IF THAT WAS THE GOAL - why are we focused on firearms when it doesn't even make the top 10 causes of death in this country?

You are LITERALLY THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY to die in an accidental fall than you are to die from someone shooting you with a firearm. But accidental falls don't make good television and news reports.

All of the proposed legislation from Democrats on gun control is feel good security theater.

When you propose and support legislation what would instantly turn law abiding citizens into criminals - you might want to rethink your position.

Discrediting one writer because of your issues with another is impeding your ability to learn and view things from potentially opposing positions. I hated Bill O'Reilly, but I still try to read Fox News pieces. If you can't, you aren't having a discussion. You're arguing with no realistic outcome or opportunity to learn and it's ultimately a waste of everyone's time.

Mental Health Investigation and History is one loophole (Nicholas Kruz). Private gun sales are another (bypassing background checks, inability for proper weapon ID tracking). You mentioned another, straw buying. Legal, yes. But should it be allowed?

Do you have numbers on the amount of handguns that are used in illegal activities purchased via straw buying?

The goal is to try to prevent someone else taking your life. You wanna get type 2 diabetes, not diet, not exercise, not do any preventative measures to harming your health, fine. That's on you. But that doesn't kill someone else. An accidental fall is a sad accident, not a malicious or careless action.

Your comment regarding law abiding citizen applies the laws are fine and are how people should be judged. I disagree. It used to be lawful to own a slave, didn't make you a good person.

 

[ctandc72]

Discrediting one writer because of your issues with another is impeding your ability to learn and view things from potentially opposing positions. I hated Bill O'Reilly, but I still try to read Fox News pieces. If you can't, you aren't having a discussion. You're arguing with no realistic outcome or opportunity to learn and it's ultimately a waste of everyone's time.

Duly noted. I'll try to make time to read it tonight.

Mental Health Investigation and History is one loophole (Nicholas Kruz). Private gun sales are another (bypassing background checks, inability for proper weapon ID tracking). You mentioned another, straw buying. Legal, yes. But should it be allowed?

That's the rub though. Are you okay with the government knowing what guns you own? We are very spoiled in this country because most people don't think there could come a time when the government decides to do what it wants to do - using the "greater good" argument is nothing new in other parts of the world. Most states have some wording regarding face to face private sales. And MOST people do even more than the law states. Again do we pass more laws to crack down on people who willingly disregard existing laws with even more serious consequences?

If someone is willing to take another person's life - do you really think they are worried about firearm laws? What happens when it's almost impossible for law-abiding citizens to be able to afford to protect their own lives and the lives of their families?

And straw buying is NOT legal. LITERALLY on the form 4473 it asks if this firearm is for another person, if you check NO, the application is automatically rejected.

Do you have numbers on the amount of handguns that are used in illegal activities purchased via straw buying?

I have to find the studies I ran across a while back. Most of them were questions posed to inmates serving time for crimes involving a firearm and they were questioned on how they got their firearm. Not surprisingly, only a small percentage went to a FFL and purchased a firearm. The other studies involved guns used in crimes in certain states with very restrictive gun laws - and of those able to be traced (still have a serial number) by the ATF were traced to other states.

The goal is to try to prevent someone else taking your life. You wanna get type 2 diabetes, not diet, not exercise, not do any preventative measures to harming your health, fine. That's on you. But that doesn't kill someone else. An accidental fall is a sad accident, not a malicious or careless action.

And the easiest way to prevent that is to be prepared, take some training (readily available) and be legally armed.

Your comment regarding law abiding citizen applies the laws are fine and are how people should be judged. I disagree. It used to be lawful to own a slave, didn't make you a good person.

Let's not got to extremes. Comparing legal firearm owners who've committed no crimes to slave owners is a more than a bridge too far.

 

[Grintch]

No. 98% is not representative. Multiple issues with his study. The opposition in this document is also not perfectly representative. Takes some critical thinking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-zones/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5af8da44d3f1

Yes it does take some critical thinking. Like what sounds more right, most mass shootings happen in private homes (per the anti-gun "study"), or most happen in schools, churches, government installations, etc.?

Please name a single well known mass shooting that happened in a private home.


The only problems with gun control are:
A - It violates the constitution.
B - It doesn't work.

Just compare the guns laws and crime rates of Chicago, New York, Washington DC, and Los Angeles. Year after year these are the US cities with the worst crime. Yet they also have the most gun control.

For a look at the wider English speaking history - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.585.8899&rep=rep1&type=pdf

And even wider look here interestingly shows that the 26 countries with the highest firearm ownership rates all have below average murder rates (note with 173 countries, only every third or so name shows up on the axis) . And several countries with low ownership rates have very high murder rates.
http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/
scroll down to the bottom chart.

 

[SJulian10mm]

I live in South Carolina where firearms are accepted and we want the 2nd admendment.

I read the news and it appears the Democratic party is going after guns again and this time even repealing the 2nd admendment.
The people that live in the Democratic control states as in California New York etc.. is this what you want?
Are you willing to give up the 2nd admendment? Also seems the 1st admendment is next.

I am a Californian

They wont get it repealed, at least not with Trump or the Rep controlled Senate. In another few years with a Dem controlled Senate and Pres, I still don't see it. If somehow they managed to sneek it through there would be so much turmoil they would be forced to re-enact it.

No, this is not what I want, but its what 51+% of Californians have been duped (by our elitist state politicians) into believing we need to be safe.

No, I wont give them up, long term I am moving out of CA and never turning back, short term, if things somehow got bad enough to where I thought I might loose them (confiscation or whatever) id take them to my Uncles house in Montana until I move out of CA.

 

[Jimmy G]

After some nut killed 35 people in the southern island state of Tasmania in 1996, the ruling conservative government clamped down on our gun laws. They bought back and destroyed guns, outlawed a bunch of them, made it harder to get a license, created a national gun registry, etc.

​

We went 22 YEARS without a mass shooting. Then last year some farmer with a screw loose shot his wife, daughter and his four grandchildren before topping himself. That's it.....one mass shooting in 22 years.

Your politics is so toxic there will be a lot of needless bloodshed before your country wakes up to itself, but it will happen. The first step will be to get the money out of politics....and that'll be quite a way off for you guys. Your billionaires drive the agenda, they control the narrative, they influence your candidates and they tell you what to think. You mightn't think so, but they do.

 

[Interceptor]

I was wondering when you would chime in. I know you are definitely against guns and America. Your opinion is welcomed since it appears America doesn't have as many gun hating liberals as the news claims.

It is hard to believe that this forum has only conservative members. I would assume we have many liberals on here too. I just don't think they lean as left as news reports

Respectfully I would mention that America is it own country, unlike the mingling of some many other countries of this Earth. Americans are mean tough fighters that do have a history of bloodshed from our revolution, civil war, and pushing the Native Americans off their land. Fighting in all the major wars of history. Bringing the Japanese to their knees. We fight to win to the end. I know your country fought too.

That is who we are. Fighters that aren't afraid. Now the world wants to tell us what to do with our guns. Not happening

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