Cars.com compare the PP1 vs PP2

[w3rkn]

The PP1 and the PP2 are the same car...
One can be optioned with an automatic, while the other as a more track focused suspension and track tires...

What is all the confusion or guessing..?

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[ALUSA]

This is another example on why road coarse oriented cars are little slower in a straight line ( besides 10 speed vs manual). When you already have traction with good compound on 275’s when you add more tire all it does is increase the friction force, especially on the front tires. Same concept with more aero for downforce.

I m sure if the pp1 was manual it would have been still faster in the straights. I hope this comparison doesn’t break the hearts of current and future PP2 owners. They can at least get immense lateral G’s on public roads hopefully without killing anyone. Almost forgot, and great lap times for couple of runs on a road coarse before the car starts overheating.

 

[w3rkn]

This is another example on why road coarse oriented cars are little slower in a straight line ( besides 10 speed vs manual). When you already have traction with good compound on 275’s when you add more tire all it does is increase the friction force, especially on the front tires. Same concept with more aero for downforce.

I m sure if the pp1 was manual it would have been still faster in the straights. I hope this comparison doesn’t break the hearts of current and future PP2 owners. They can at least get immense lateral G’s on public roads hopefully without killing anyone. Almost forgot, and great lap times for couple of runs on a road coarse before the car starts overheating.

The ONLY difference is, in how they handle the twisties….

Everyone knows the A10 will be faster at the dragstrip and it was pointless for Cars.com to even include that in their review, it confused the issue. Ford's Performance Packs are about agility and handling performance metrics.


The GT Performance Package - Level 1 includes:

• 19-inch x 9-inch (F)/19-inch X 9.5-inch (R) Ebony Black-painted Aluminum Wheels
• 255/40 R19 (F) 275/40R19 (R) Summer Only Tires
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors
• "Engine Spun" Aluminum Instrument Panel
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Heavy-duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Performance Rear Wing
• Silver Painted Strut-Tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio (Manual)
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.55 Axle Ratio (Automatic)
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS and ABS Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar



The GT Performance Package – Level 2 includes:

• 19-inch x10.5-inch (F)/19-inch x 11-inch (R) Dark Tarnish Painted Aluminum Wheels
• 305/30/R19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tires (Summer Only)
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors
• "Engine Spun" Aluminum Instrument Panel
• Gauge Pack (Vacuum and Oil Pressure)
• High Performance Front Splitter
• K-Brace
• Large Radiator
• MagneRide® Damping System with Track Inspired Calibration <---
• Silver Painted Strut-Tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio
• Unique Rear Spoiler
• Unique Track Inspired Chassis, Stability Control, EPAS, and ABS Tuning
• Unique Track Inspired Springs and Sway Bar

 

[sdiver68]

WTF is "artificial" about putting better tires on a car?

Lap times comparisons are artificial when both cars are not on same rubber.

 

[w3rkn]

Lap times comparisons are artificial when both cars are not on same rubber.

They were not comparing lap times, they were comparing the Car's (as optioned) abilities to turn lap times. Trying to make them equal, is artificially trying not to compare the two as is...

 

[sdiver68]

They were not comparing lap times, they were comparing the Car's (as optioned) abilities to turn lap times. Trying to make them equal, is artificially trying not to compare the two as is...

I understand what you are saying but have way too much road racing experience to accept the results as-is without an explanation. I want to see a PP1 vs PP2 comparison on the same tires.

Admittedly, I am used to a new set of tires every race weekend so my bias is that tires make a huge difference in lap times. And another bias I have as a race tuner on a budget is to isolate every part to see what is real versus hype as measured by lap times and race results.

Another issue I have with the video are the comments on the automatic being in the wrong gear in a couple of corners. It does not appear the paddle shifters were used, indicating either a lack of experience on Holly's part on how to drive a performance auto on track OR that they aren't very good paddle shifting. It would be great to hear back which of those 2 are the case.

Given that the stated goal in the video was to determine how much faster on track is PP2 vs PP1 and is it worth it Id say my comments are right on-point.

 

[NoVaGT]

I understand what you are saying but have way too much road racing experience to accept the results as-is without an explanation. I want to see a PP1 vs PP2 comparison on the same tires......

Dude....

The ENTIRE POINT of the test was to see the difference in track capabilities between PP1 and PP2. A HUGE part of that is the OEM wheel and tire packages they come with. The difference in wheels & tires was the majority of the point of the test.

The PP1 vs PP2 comparison was conducted precisely because they're not on the same tires. Almost the whole point to the test was to see what difference the PP2 wheels and tires create on the track.

 

[mikeyjobu]

Dude....

The ENTIRE POINT of the test was to see the difference in track capabilities between PP1 and PP2. A HUGE part of that is the OEM wheel and tire packages they come with. The difference in wheels & tires was the majority of the point of the test.

The PP1 vs PP2 comparison was conducted precisely because they're not on the same tires. The whole point to the test was to see what difference the PP2 wheels and tires create on the track.

I think it's been said by Ford already that you MUST have Magneride - probably factory tuned, and specific to PP2 - in order to get the front fitment without rubbing -- I'm pretty sure anyone could fit the 305's out back with no issues.

 

[Spork3245]

I think it's been said by Ford already that you MUST have Magneride - probably factory tuned, and specific to PP2 - in order to get the front fitment without rubbing -- I'm pretty sure anyone could fit the 305's out back with no issues.

I assumed Ford just installs a spacer on the front at the factory to fit the 305s...?

 

[mikeyjobu]

I assumed Ford just installs a spacer on the front at the factory to fit the 305s...?

I watched an early video of a Ford event on Youtube -- I forget which Youtuber did it -- they asked the question to the Ford rep -- it's far more than a spacer. The rep said the Magneride was tuned to allow the fitment without rubbing -- that without it, the tires would rub -- so the dampers are capable of firming up enough to stop the rolling before it hits.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Thank the Lord sensors weren't in the differential of the '93 Mustangs.
I've tracked 93 Cobras, 500 RWHP 93 LX's, and 98 Cobras and never once did the rear differential overheat. I just keep the damn thing serviced and move on. I've never had a transmission cooler either. I've never seen nor heard of such a worry about trans or diff coolers except for this site. Obviously I'm not driving hard enough. Lol.

It's not your driving. Your stick-axle cars almost certainly had greater axle fluid capacity, plus the advantage of being able to shed fluid heat through the axle tubes that you just can't get with IRS.


Norm

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

I watched an early video of a Ford event on Youtube -- I forget which Youtuber did it -- they asked the question to the Ford rep -- it's far more than a spacer. The rep said the Magneride was tuned to allow the fitment without rubbing -- that without it, the tires would rub -- so the dampers are capable of firming up enough to stop the rolling before it hits.

I believe it's also been stated that the use of the GT350 spindles/knuckles was required due to the use of the inverted monotube MR dampeners because they can stiffen up enough to break the GT parts.

 

[Norm Peterson]

PP 2 only costs $810 more than an equally equipped PP1.
Do you want to sit lower, & have a more track tuned suspension, or not..? Almost a no brainer if you are use to having a tire rack in your garage.

Only "almost" a no-brainer'???


Norm

 

[saleen367]

I mean i get you have a gt350, but not sure why they need to test it against one.. one would hope a set of tires and a little tuning doesnt let a GT get that close to a gt350 lol I guess it would be interesting to see though?

“It will be a car that you can daily drive, especially with the comfort of the MagneRide. The track-focused Cup 2 tires are obviously aggressive and have a pretty wide footprint all the way around, which definitely helps close the gap to the GT350. It also has more downforce than the standard Mustang, but not quite as much as the Shelby. Compared with the previous Mustang, the 2018 has a higher redline — 7,500 rpm is awesome — so you are closing the gap in terms of horsepower and rev range to the Shelby. While you don’t have the transmission and diff coolers, the car doesn’t cost as much as the Shelby. Overall, you really are getting close in terms of the inherent performance parts and while it may not beat a Shelby around a racetrack (it’s close), the car is very fast and extremely capable.” Billy Johnson
https://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/

 

[Hivel]

I believe it's also been stated that the use of the GT350 spindles/knuckles was required due to the use of the inverted monotube MR dampeners because they can stiffen up enough to break the GT parts.

The PP1 magneride does use the GT350 hubs. But, it has a unique forged iron knuckle. I 'm dying for someone to see if the GT350 aluminum knuckle fits. If it’s offset outward; It may be the best way to run a square set of wheels and tires.

Cheers,

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