My GT350R will likely be my last Ford car.

[btown93]

Unfortunately, the dealership experience is not a "Ford" problem per se....It speaks more to the current use of the antiquated flat rate system. Add to that, the society we live in and the lack of personal responsibilty/pride that comes with working in this business. However, Ford Cororate doesn't help the problem. It is multi-faceted. As it pertains to the GT350, Ford assumed (incorrectly) that dealership techs would install the splitter correctly, and also torque oil filters correctly. Lets use the splitter for example. The PDI labor time on 2017 GT350 pays 1.1 hours. I am not a tech, but I understand the situation they are in. If you were going to get paid for an hours work, if it took you 10 min or it took you 2 hours, what would you do? In this case, its partly on Ford, and partly on the tech. Ford has to know it will take alot longer than an hour for someone to do a complete, normal PDI, and also take the time to install the splitter correctly. In this case, the customer suffers. Lets talk about an oil change. Typically an oil change pays .3 hrs. So, in real dollars, the technician that gets $30/hr will be paid $9.00. For that $9.00 the tech has to pull the car in, put it on the lift, drain the 10 qts oil, remove the filter, replace the filter, torque the filter, then add 10 qts of oil by hand (most places won't have 5w50 on tap). Personally I wonder if this is the reason for the oil filter change to cartridge. It takes that source of error away. One could say, wow, shouldn't someone working on a $67k car get paid more than $9 to do an oil change! I can't tell you how many threads I've seen about the cheapest place to buy oil. There is lierally a couple bucks/qt profit. That same person thinking that the tech should get paid more than $9 to make sure he does a good job would also say, "it's a Ford, why is my oil change going to cost $150? what a ripoff!" I'm not trying to have a pity party for the technician here, I am more just trying to explain how the system works, and hopefully give insight. I'm also not trying to offend any technicians out there that do the right thing. Fact is its a flawed system that doesn't meet the expectaion customers have on this caliber of vehicle. Ford and the dealer benefit from this type of pay system. I'm not sure how it works at say, brand "P"...but the assumption is that there is a much higher level of service. Is there? Maybe. Perhaps the way dealerships and in turn technicians are compensated is different.

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[cosmo]

That is probably true. I have never purchased a luxury vehicle and I probably never will. I have driven and looked at the higher quality stuff, though. What I have found is that - yes the panels fit a lot better on a Porsche, but the performance enjoyment isn't there for me.

I think Porsche people either have a ton of money to waste, or they care more about prestige than performance. I have to admit if I had a couple hundred thousand dollars burning a hole in my pocket I might consider a Porsche more seriously.

I recommend trying to get out to one of those "exotic" track car experiences. They can be expensive, but getting to drive very high end vehicles for 10+ laps for less than $1k is worth it IMO. I drove a GT3, GT3RS, Huracan Performante, and a 458 on track through these services.


The GT350 (non-R) does a great job of giving you the engine feeling from these vehicles, but the rest of the experience (handling and whatnot) is insane on these vehicles. Combined with the quality, I can see now why people pay 6 figures for GT3s and whatnot.

True, for a 10 year old Porsche that makes 250 hp and costs as much as a GT350 does new, you get better panel fitment. They also handle great. But the flat six doesn't sound very good compared to a V8 and the used 10 year old Porsche will be way too hooked up (not fun to drive).

So, I still think it's a matter of priorities. Is a fun to drive car more important to you or is it more important that the panel gaps are perfect?

100%, the Porsche's used to feel quite bland to me. However with the newer vehicles getting active exhaust systems, you can get great sounding experiences of a 991.1 with decent mileage on them for GT350 $$. Or the 981 can be had for cheaper, and IMO is more fun than the 911 albeit lacks low end torque.

 

[Wriggly]

I don't think you remember what cars used to be like and how the panels used to fit on cars. Maybe I only owned the type of cars with crappier panel fit. I certainly never owned or wanted to own anything Buick has made for the last 30+ years. Other than the rear bumper on the GT350, the rest of the panels seem great to me.



That is probably true. I have never purchased a luxury vehicle and I probably never will. I have driven and looked at the higher quality stuff, though. What I have found is that - yes the panels fit a lot better on a Porsche, but the performance enjoyment isn't there for me.

I think Porsche people either have a ton of money to waste, or they care more about prestige than performance. I have to admit if I had a couple hundred thousand dollars burning a hole in my pocket I might consider a Porsche more seriously.



I do 100% agree that the dealers are inadequate. I tend to have high standards and I haven't owned a variety of other cars to know how Ford dealerships compare to other brands, but I have been dissatisfied with my local Ford dealerships on several occasions.


True, for a 10 year old Porsche that makes 250 hp and costs as much as a GT350 does new, you get better panel fitment. They also handle great. But the flat six doesn't sound very good compared to a V8 and the used 10 year old Porsche will be way too hooked up (not fun to drive).

So, I still think it's a matter of priorities. Is a fun to drive car more important to you or is it more important that the panel gaps are perfect?

It doesn't take a couple hundred grand to get a P car that's more exciting than a GT350. Also anyone that doesn't think a flat six can sound good probably should see their ear guy to get the wax cleaned out.

Speculating about that which you have no experience with, tsk, tsk.

[ame]

 

[Hack]

I recommend trying to get out to one of those "exotic" track car experiences. They can be expensive, but getting to drive very high end vehicles for 10+ laps for less than $1k is worth it IMO. I drove a GT3, GT3RS, Huracan Performante, and a 458 on track through these services.

I've done that and I drove a Ferrari 458 and a Porsche GT3. The Porsche did have a lot of grip but I didn't find it to be more enjoyable to drive on the track than my GT350. Certainly when you consider the cost of a GT3 it doesn't seem worth it to me.

The GT350 (non-R) does a great job of giving you the engine feeling from these vehicles, but the rest of the experience (handling and whatnot) is insane on these vehicles. Combined with the quality, I can see now why people pay 6 figures for GT3s and whatnot.

I had my Track attack event 3 days after driving a GT3 on track, so the GT3 was fresh on my mind. I think they are comparable on the track as far as how fast they are.

100%, the Porsche's used to feel quite bland to me. However with the newer vehicles getting active exhaust systems, you can get great sounding experiences of a 991.1 with decent mileage on them for GT350 $$. Or the 981 can be had for cheaper, and IMO is more fun than the 911 albeit lacks low end torque.

I don't really fit well in the Cayman. It would be nice if Porsche started putting more power in their cars. If the power/$ ratio isn't there for me, I'm just not that interested.

 

[DrumReaper]

Sure does sound shitty...:lol:

(Jest)

 

[nastang87xx]

Ferrari V12s, Lamborghini V10s, Porsche flat 6s (in the GT2/3's), Ford Voodoo, BMW crossover V8s.

Best sounding engines in the world right now.

 

[mustang1]

... I can't tell you how many threads I've seen about the cheapest place to buy oil. There is literally a couple bucks/qt profit. That same person thinking that the tech should get paid more than $9 to make sure he does a good job would also say, "it's a Ford, why is my oil change going to cost $150? what a ripoff!"

:shrug:

2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Specifications
$144,650 (base)

^ quite a bit more than a GT350.

 

[stanglife]

Interesting... sounds like you and I just had coffee and discussed all my 350 woes. You don’t know me from Adam. It is a fact that Ford’s quality is no longer “Job 1” but “Job Lazy”. You can claim that as my “necessary excuse” but actually last time I checked I live in America and my currency can purchase whatever is available.

I’m no Chevy or Dodge fan and their cars are so so to me. The P car fits my template and it has a certain quality about it that I can appreciate.

I haven’t been “plenty fine up till now”, and I still enjoy driving my R but it’s like owning a boat now... something has to be fixed often now. That’s not fun.

No, but we've been on this board for years now and maybe you've forgotten things you've said before but the search feature remembers.

Just going off what you, yourself said.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=891960&postcount=108

"do you think for once I'm gonna worry bout the 0.13562" trunk gap on the right and the 0.15264" gap in the left? No... Am I giving Ford a pass... No. I just chose to purchase a car that's not perfect and will be damn proud of it."

We all change our opinions over time but changing your expectations of a vehicle while you own it is asking the gaps to fix themselves...it's asking the car to become something it isn't. So you've outgrown it and want better fitment now, fine - just say that. My point is - you posted (I can find other instances, if you want) exactly what I am saying - we accepted a car that could do X but knew it wouldn't be perfect in Y. Expecting it to all of a sudden become perfect, isn't realistic.

 

[btown93]

:shrug:

2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Specifications
$144,650 (base)

^ quite a bit more than a GT350.

:shrug:

 

[DrumReaper]

No, but we've been on this board for years now and maybe you've forgotten things you've said before but the search feature remembers.

Just going off what you, yourself said.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=891960&postcount=108

"do you think for once I'm gonna worry bout the 0.13562" trunk gap on the right and the 0.15264" gap in the left? No... Am I giving Ford a pass... No. I just chose to purchase a car that's not perfect and will be damn proud of it."

We all change our opinions over time but changing your expectations of a vehicle while you own it is asking the gaps to fix themselves...it's asking the car to become something it isn't. So you've outgrown it and want better fitment now, fine - just say that. My point is - you posted (I can find other instances, if you want) exactly what I am saying - we accepted a car that could do X but knew it wouldn't be perfect in Y. Expecting it to all of a sudden become perfect, isn't realistic.

Hmmm... I see I took a little bit of your time today to do that research. I’m not apologetic by no means, but as you see in my statement, I was referring to a trunk gap and a minuscule 0.02” of gap difference. My car was nearly flawless when it arrived. I wasn’t a victim of gap issues others had Then. At the time of this post I seemed to have unrealistic expectations that Ford's quality and workmanship would hold up over a small 2 years time, as it had prior in my B302. It, however, didn’t... so you actually did some research to help prove my point.

In 2 years time, my car went from “near flawless” to an encumbered state of 8 quality issues that have developed. I didn’t even put in the recalls and TSBs. So... what was your point again?

This is, and has to date, been one of the most thrilling cars I have ever been blessed to drive. Yes, cars aren’t perfect, but outside of Land Rovers, can you tell me just how many $60k+ cars from 2016 have had that many issues?

 

[mustang1]

:shrug:

I don't know how the technicians are compensated. I was just trying to add a bit of humor. I suspect a GT3 oil change will easily run $150 +

 

[Austinj427]

Well they can turn a focus RS out of Germany that had better finish, why cant they do that in the US ???

I don't know, mine didn't seem much better than my Focus ST.







Yes the fit and finish on this car is terrible but I'll eventually get around to fixing it.

OP, GT3s are bad ass and I'd love to own one. I just can't stomach the cost, as it would be almost 3x the price of my car and it doesn't stop there. By the second 4 corner brake job you could have the GT350 painted and come out the same.

 

[stanglife]

Hmmm... I see I took a little bit of your time today to do that research. I’m not apologetic by no means, but as you see in my statement, I was referring to a trunk gap and a minuscule 0.02” of gap difference. My car was nearly flawless when it arrived. I wasn’t a victim of gap issues others had Then. At the time of this post I seemed to have unrealistic expectations that Ford's quality and workmanship would hold up over a small 2 years time, as it had prior in my B302. It, however, didn’t... so you actually did some research to help prove my point.

In 2 years time, my car went from “near flawless” to an encumbered state of 8 quality issues that have developed. I didn’t even put in the recalls and TSBs. So... what was your point again?

This is, and has to date, been one of the most thrilling cars I have ever been blessed to drive. Yes, cars aren’t perfect, but outside of Land Rovers, can you tell me just how many $60k+ cars from 2016 have had that many issues?

I simply know how to use the search feature. Your words, sir.

SO if you want a P car, go for it but you don’t need to contradict yourself and then take a huge dump on your way out, just go.

 

[DrumReaper]

I simply know how to use the search feature. Your words, sir.

SO if you want a P car, go for it but you don’t need to contradict yourself and then take a huge dump on your way out, just go.

Damn dude... fake news. Where did I say I was getting rid of my 350? I simply stated I’m done with “Ford cars”.

Wish there was a way you could search for how to be less of an antagonist. You’re always instigating crap for no dagum reason.

 

[rick81721]

Gotta laugh when I see all this "Porsche is the most reliable car ever" talk based on anecdotal evidence (usually one person's experience). According to consumer reports, Porsche is ranked 13th, just a little better than Ford:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

But hey, what do they know? Better to go by a few clowns on the internet!

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