Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[scrubber3]

1LE is banned in the Fourth Reich that we call the European Union. Idiots.

Lots of fun things are banned there. :doh:

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[Norm Peterson]

One of my big objections to the 1LE is the matte hood seems very impractical.

What's my point? I agree with you that the 1LE isn't set up to have mainstream appeal for people that are in the market for a new car to use at least partially for driving around town running errands, going to work, etc. Track performance is important to me, but it's not priority #1. Not even close. And I think that holds for the vast majority of buyers.

That's probably why the 1LE was originally pitched as a car for only 2% [of Camaro buyers].

I once floated the idea that the 5th gen Z/28 was a car for about 10% of that 2%, and got agreement from somebody pretty high up in the Camaro program. I know I could still daily-drive either that or a GT350R and not think twice about doing so. My only concession these days would be A/C due to medical reasons (low tolerance for summer heat). And FM/CD capability.


Out of curiosity, are the 1LE hood wraps actually known for getting marked up easily? I don't spend any time in any forum's detailing section, so I wouldn't see complaints by the people most picky about such things. But the hoods on a couple of cars I painted flat black back in the 1970's seemed to hold up about as well as the regular-color paint on everybody else's car.


Norm

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Out of curiosity, are the 1LE hood wraps actually known for getting marked up easily? I don't spend any time in any forum's detailing section, so I wouldn't see complaints by the people most picky about such things. But the hoods on a couple of cars I painted flat black back in the 1970's seemed to hold up about as well as the regular-color paint on everybody else's car

I had a 14 1LE with the matte wrap on the hood as well as the current 1LE and it holds up very well. There really wasn't anything special I had to do to maintain it.

It certainly holds up better than the chipped up paint on the hood of my M3 after tracking quite a bit.

I've considered removing it just for an aesthetic change, but it works for me functionally.

 

[Hack]

I had a 14 1LE with the matte wrap on the hood as well as the current 1LE and it holds up very well. There really wasn't anything special I had to do to maintain it.

It certainly holds up better than the chipped up paint on the hood of my M3 after tracking quite a bit.

I've considered removing it just for an aesthetic change, but it works for me functionally.

So I assume when you wax the car you avoid the hood? Do you wash the hood with the same technique as the rest of the car? Do you have ppf over the hood?

 

[ALUSA]

5 hours away from me Lebanon Ford in Ohio is selling warrantied brand new 2018 base gt’s with 700 hp Roush kit for $42,000 and Hellion Twin Turbo versions with 800 hp for $52,000! The base car is already at 3860 lbs per lmr’s youtube video, adding the supercharger or twin turbo kit will add probably 100 to 150 lbs so we are looking at a 4,000 lbs car with no driver. What would it take to make the car handle like a zl1 or 1le?

I may actually go this route and build an 18 gt with hellion kit. The car will need complete Brembo Brake kit, Slotted Lighter Brake Rotors, Carbon Fiber DS, Complete Track Handling kit, Wheel Hop Eliminator Kit, Lighter Wheels with square 305’s, Sticky Rubber, MGW Shifter, Full Exhaust and Rear Seat Delete! So around 60 g’s! Will that be enough to smoke these two on the road coarse and 99.9% of the rest of the world in the straights?

 

[thehunterooo]

5 hours away from me Lebanon Ford in Ohio is selling warrantied brand new 2018 base gt’s with 700 hp Roush kit for $42,000 and Hellion Twin Turbo versions with 800 hp for $52,000! The base car is already at 3860 lbs per lmr’s youtube video, adding the supercharger or twin turbo kit will add probably 100 to 150 lbs so we are looking at a 4,000 lbs car with no driver. What would it take to make the car handle like a zl1 or 1le?

I may actually go this route and build an 18 gt with hellion kit. The car will need complete Brembo Brake kit, Slotted Lighter Brake Rotors, Carbon Fiber DS, Complete Track Handling kit, Wheel Hop Eliminator Kit, Lighter Wheels with square 305’s, Sticky Rubber, MGW Shifter, Full Exhaust and Rear Seat Delete! So around 60 g’s! Will that be enough to smoke these two on the road coarse and 99.9% of the rest of the world in the straights?

Those aren't stock cars though! Stock performance is all that matters in bench racing brother.

 

[martinjlm]

I had a 14 1LE with the matte wrap on the hood as well as the current 1LE and it holds up very well. There really wasn't anything special I had to do to maintain it.

It certainly holds up better than the chipped up paint on the hood of my M3 after tracking quite a bit.

I've considered removing it just for an aesthetic change, but it works for me functionally.

So I assume when you wax the car you avoid the hood? Do you wash the hood with the same technique as the rest of the car? Do you have ppf over the hood?

I have a similar situation with my car. The orange stripes on my car are gloss, the broader center grey stripe is matte. I just avoid the matte stripe when I wax or polish the car. I protect my paint with Blackfire Crystal Seal (but not the matte stripe) and then clean the car, including the matte whenever it needs cleaning with CarPro EcH2O waterless wash.

 

[Norm Peterson]

5 hours away from me Lebanon Ford in Ohio is selling warrantied brand new 2018 base gt’s with 700 hp Roush kit for $42,000 and Hellion Twin Turbo versions with 800 hp for $52,000! The base car is already at 3860 lbs per lmr’s youtube video, adding the supercharger or twin turbo kit will add probably 100 to 150 lbs so we are looking at a 4,000 lbs car with no driver. What would it take to make the car handle like a zl1 or 1le?

Bigger than 305's, a call to Vorshlag, and a healthy checkbook.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

5 hours away from me Lebanon Ford in Ohio is selling warrantied brand new 2018 base gt’s with 700 hp Roush kit for $42,000 and Hellion Twin Turbo versions with 800 hp for $52,000! The base car is already at 3860 lbs per lmr’s youtube video, adding the supercharger or twin turbo kit will add probably 100 to 150 lbs so we are looking at a 4,000 lbs car with no driver. What would it take to make the car handle like a zl1 or 1le?

I may actually go this route and build an 18 gt with hellion kit. The car will need complete Brembo Brake kit, Slotted Lighter Brake Rotors, Carbon Fiber DS, Complete Track Handling kit, Wheel Hop Eliminator Kit, Lighter Wheels with square 305’s, Sticky Rubber, MGW Shifter, Full Exhaust and Rear Seat Delete! So around 60 g’s! Will that be enough to smoke these two on the road coarse and 99.9% of the rest of the world in the straights?

That’s the PP 10 speed that is that heavy. Vorshlag weighed in a pure base GT at 3650.

Lund just posted a video of a TT 10 speed PP Premium car at 12psi running 9.4, and they said it weighed in at 4050 with driver

If you want to take 1LEs on track, just get a base and put that extra money into some bolt ons, cortex DA coilovers, 19x11s, aero pieces, and some other small odds and ends. That should put you into 1LE territory. Don’t get the boosted car... aftermarket boost is a nightmare on track unless you put some SERIOUS work into cooling and aero mods. Hell, even manufacturers have a hard time keeping boost cool on track, thus why it took 2 years for GM to fix the Z06 issues and why it’s taking so long for the GT500 to come

 

[JohnnyUtah]

So I assume when you wax the car you avoid the hood? Do you wash the hood with the same technique as the rest of the car? Do you have ppf over the hood?

Yeah, I put sealant on it an one point when I was applying that to the rest of the car but it didn't take to the wrap well. It looked a little streaky, but it just ended up washing off eventually.

Just soap and water and it's all good. I don't put film on it. The wrap would probably be cheaper to replace than adding film. It is basically acting as a protective film for the hood now.

That being said I'm not insane about car detailing. I keep it clean, but I beat on it pretty hard with track days so it's gonna have knicks and chips no matter what.

I think the part that is hit hardest is actually the section just in front of the rear wheels. The wide front tires end up throwing junk up onto that piece. There is stock protective film there already, but it takes a beating.

 

[Childs Play]

LOL

SORRY BRO.

The camaro has lost the sales war, is continuing the losing trend, and the 2019 is in danger of sinking it. The design is an epic failure. The original 6 gen design is pretty awesome. But the refresh is pure barf.

It looks outdated as it borrows older design cues and looks like what a new Chevy cobalt would look like if they made a new one.

It’s not doing great now and will likely do horribly very soon.

Y'all are still arguing about sales..? I haven't been on here in months regarding mustang vs camaro discussions and this is what's still being argued?

I figured there'd be better things to discuss by now considering both cars have their respective refreshes and different models have been announced. Apparently I was wrong and beating dead horses is way more fun...

 

[bootlegger]

Y'all are still arguing about sales..? I haven't been on here in months regarding mustang vs camaro discussions and this is what's still being argued?

I figured there'd be better things to discuss by now considering both cars have their respective refreshes and different models have been announced. Apparently I was wrong and beating dead horses is way more fun...

This is a neverending thread. All the same topics just get rehashed owver and over again.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Y'all are still arguing about sales..? I haven't been on here in months regarding mustang vs camaro discussions and this is what's still being argued?

I figured there'd be better things to discuss by now considering both cars have their respective refreshes and different models have been announced. Apparently I was wrong and beating dead horses is way more fun...

When the issue of 'sales' comes up in any discussion that isn't specifically about sales (IOW, the monthly episode of Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger), I don't get it either.

It's like people have to apply the sales volume argument as salve to their ego when their choice of car isn't rated at the top of whatever the comparison is nominally about - or drifts off into including. That they need some "safety in numbers" to justify that they made the right choice.

All I can say to that is that it's nice to have a nonconformist streak in you. To not need to fall in lock-step with the majority. To be able to truly appreciate the other car without feeling that you're abandoning your own by doing so.


Norm

 

[505STANG]

When the issue of 'sales' comes up in any discussion that isn't specifically about sales (IOW, the monthly episode of Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger), I don't get it either.

It's like people have to apply the sales volume argument as salve to their ego when their choice of car isn't rated at the top of whatever the comparison is nominally about - or drifts off into including. That they need some "safety in numbers" to justify that they made the right choice.

All I can say to that is that it's nice to have a nonconformist streak in you. To not need to fall in lock-step with the majority. To be able to truly appreciate the other car without feeling that you're abandoning your own by doing so.


Norm

Or it could be that folks just don't like Chevy or Camaro. No Egos Necessary!

 

[Arthonon]

I don't think it's helpful to compare sales for sales' sake in a performance thread, but as I think I've mentioned in other threads, I believe sales is a factor in performance planning from the manufacturer, and that can impact availability.

If a car is designed to have good performance, but also meet other needs and get wider appeal, even when it compromises performance, it's more likely to be a success and continue to be produced, and have a healthy aftermarket.

Conversely, if a car is made with performance as its primary goal, and daily usage is compromised for that purpose, I think sales will generally suffer and the car is more in danger of being shut down due to low sales, not to mention a potentially smaller aftermarket. if you look at Camaro sales stats, including 1LE sales, I think we could say that even most Camaro owners don't put performance as their primary need, otherwise 1LEs would make up a higher percentage of sales.

I think sales also come into play because people are basically asking, "Why doesn't Ford make a higher performance car?" with the implication being that they will potentially buy another car instead. That's a sales issue, and Ford seems to have decided that losing those sales is worth the trade to get other sales.

If anyone prefers any specific car for any reason, then that's the one they should buy. If the current Mustang offerings don't seem to meet a person's needs, and the Camaro does, buy it. That's the beauty of having choices, and I hope the Camaro sticks around to offer a choice, and competition. If I didn't hate the feeling I get inside of the current Camaro, and I liked it's looks better, I'd have no problem buying one. It's not like I hate Camaros or Chevy, it's just that right now, the Mustang has the right combination of features for me. For others, it's the Camaro, and that's totally cool.

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