Question for '18 GT owners with A10

[Double]

I've been reading and commenting in a bunch of these threads and it seems that somehow Ford is shipping at least 3 different calibration versions. .

There might be slight software revisions based on testing that still continues but everyone is different that’s why you get all these different opinions.

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[DickR]

There might be slight software revisions based on testing that still continues but everyone is different that’s why you get all these different opinions.

Exactly.

I'm confused regarding thecyper.ninja's "lack of power off the line" statement and similar statements by others. My GTPP is traction limited off the line whenever I try to use full throttle from a stop on either the oem tires PS4S's or my autocross RE-71R's. Maybe even mid 50's temps are too cool but I'll find out this weekend at a high grip autocross site in warm temps.

 

[gmupatriot]

subbed...

2018 Mustang is my first Mustang and first real performance car, although we also own a 2012 Mini.

First week of ownership had me questioning my purchase because of the jerkiness. Smoothed out considerably, but still touchy and doesn't have the "go kart" like power of the Mini (and we own the heaviest and largest Countryman) off the line. I am not sure I'll spend much time exceeding the Mini's top speed of 135ish in the Mustang, but the Mustang has no problem getting there.

Chose an American performance car over German for my next car, because I had to replace the water pump on the Mini and had to take half the front end off to get to it and it was plastic! German engineers tend to over complicate everything.

Nothing beats the sound of the Mustang though...

How do you guys know what gear you are in? I have 500 miles on my 2018 and haven't messed too much with the paddles yet, although I think the gear will show in the display when you up shift or down shift using the paddles.

Congrats first of all.

The Mini is lighter than the stang I am guessing and having a turbo charged engine means more low end torque to get you fast off the line. Another thing to note is that the gas pedal travel is longer on the stang than most cars I have driven so that might give you the impression that the car is slow off the line. In addition, the Mustang has torque management in all modes except when in Drag mode in order to prevent slippage and the driver turning their tires to smoke. Dont quote me on this but after experimenting with my GT, I have noticed the difference.

If you do not have the digital dash than you cannot tell what gear your car is in unless you are shifting the gears yourself. I have the 401A package on the GT and it shows what gear I am in regardless of the drive mode.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Some of you may have already read my post that I have copied and pasted below; some who have not seen it in the other thread, the info may help to understand the A10 from an actual Driver/Owner perspective.

There’s really not a lot of 10R80 info out there (yet) regarding its real world function, performance and what is normal feeling vs. what is not normal. I’ve looked myself, so threads like this one by A10 owners will definitely help others seeking to understand the A10 or help those who maybe on the fence when buying a 2018.

I think the difference in A10 trans performance is and could be due to what rear gear ratio folks have in a GT or EB. The PP GT or EB should have a more distinct “firm” shift if the rear has the 3.55’s, whereas someone with 3.15’s (or insert other gear ratio) will feel as if the shift is sluggish or soft.

————
My copied and pasted 10R80 reply below is from this thread:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100334
————

The below is coming from an owner of a prior 2016 EB PP w/ 3.55’s & w/6R80.

Current vehicle:
2018 EB PP w/ 3.55’s & w/10R80

Also to note for those who do not know:
The A10 is an adaptive learning transmission. This means when an owner first takes possession of a new 2018 w/A10 - the trans has not learned or logged ANY driving habits at all. So for some, the A10 may feel or seem clunky or delayed - that is NORMAL. The trans needs to and will learn YOUR driving habits. Over time, you will notice the trans will become a lot less clunky or quirky and will level out as far as performance and functionality. IF you ever need to reset the adaptive learning, disconnect the battery, let the vehicle sit for a good 15 mins, reconnect battery and then start driving. The apdative learning is NOT an instant learning process, it takes a few weeks and miles of driving for the trans to adapt and relearn.

Regarding using the steering wheel paddles for down/up shifting with an A10, here’s some detailed info:

[1] In Normal (D) mode:
The Driver can manually up/downshift the vehicle to your desire. If the vehicle is in 10th gear, you can manually shift down to 7 with three very fast clicks.... if you want to go from 10 to 5, same thing. The trans responses very quickly to manually shifting - much faster and much smoother than than the prior 6R80. If you are at a dead stop in (D), click the paddle to set it in 1 - once you get moving, upshift as needed OR let the trans auto shift.

After initial vehicle start up, when the vehicle is in (D) and without driver intervention of touching the paddles, the trans is going to auto shift based on what it has adapated from learning the Driver’s driving habits. The trans will hold the gear long enough as preprogrammed from Ford’s mapping and will auto down/up shift as needed based on that mapping AND the adapted Driver’s habits. The transmission will select the BEST and most OPTIMUM gear needed - it does NOT always shift like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 nor does it downshift through 10 consecutive gears.... it could go 1,3,5 or if downshifting, go 9,7,5.... you get the idea.

HOWEVER, if the driver intervenes while in (D) and clicks up/down with the paddles, the trans will hold the gear selected longer than the preprogrammed mode, but it will NOT redline and will auto shift out into the next gear IF the driver has not. The same is true for downshifting.


[2] In Sport (S) mode, the Driver has (2) options:

A) Touch the paddle and the trans is now controlled strictly by the Driver. This means if you click the paddle from a dead stop and start accelerating - the trans will NOT shift from 1 to 2 until the Driver makes the change manually. The car WILL hold the gear and WILL redline until the manual change is made. If the car was in motion and the Driver clicked a paddle (up or down), again, the trans WILL hold the current gear and CAN redline until the Driver makes the manual change.

B) If after vehicle start up, the Driver selected (S) initially and has NOT touched the paddles at all - in (S) the car will hold out the gears much longer than if in (D); the trans WILL auto shift but will NOT hold the gear out to redline based on the preprogrammed mapping from Ford. IF while driving, the user moves the shifter from (D) to (S) and the Driver does NOT touch the paddles, again the trans will react exactly in the same manner where it’s following the preprogrammed mapping from Ford.

Back to manually shifting with paddles:
There is NO comparison in manually shifting the 10R80 vs the 6R80... The A10 trans is by far light years ahead of the 6R80 in ALL aspects. The gear selection, whether being performed manually via the paddles OR allowing the trans to auto up/downshift on its own is extremely responsive. The quicker the Driver manually up/downshifts via the paddles, the trans can quickly get into that selected gear with practically NO delay. I’ve shifted from 10 down to 6 in the matter of less than 1-2 seconds - the trans responds immediately and gets into the chosen gear without issues. The same is true with manually shifting from a dead stop OR if needing to accelerate while over taking traffic when needed - the trans responds instantaneously to the Driver input.

Again, as the trans learns the Driver’s habits over time, it’s going to adapt far better to your input as to when the vehicle was brand spanking new off the lot.

My 2018 is driven daily and I have almost 2k miles, the A10 is performing flawlessly. Compared to the 6R80, the 6R80 was extremely clunky when in Sport (S) mode, whether it was manually downshifting shifting the trans or letting it auto downshift it was just not smooth. Even with upshifting the 6R80 while in Sport mode, auto up shifts were very delayed and sometimes it felt like it would not get out of gear. With the A10, I don’t feel any jerkiness or clunkiness with the upshifts or downshifts when in Sport mode, the trans is extremely smooth and there’s almost no “transition” felt between the gears when allowing it to auto shift. Sure, you can audibly hear the shifts, but from within the vehicle there’s no major physical jerkiness felt at all, it just glides into the gear.

I’m not saying that the A10 is the best out there, nor am I saying it out performs the MT82.

REAR END GEAR RATIO WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS WELL IN HOW THE VEHICLE PERFORMS!

For those who have NEVER driven an S550 w/ A10, this is what I’ll leave those with who are looking to buy a 2018 w/A10 option be it a GT or EB:

There is NO comparison to the 6R80 if you have experience with that transmission.

Go to your local Dealer, test drive one - drive it like you stole it... Take it out on a highway for about 20 minutes and a few miles of real drive time to experience the BEST on road experiences to make a sound decision. You CANNOT get any real opinion or feeling if your Salesman is taking you for a “round the block” test drive...

1) Drive it distance on a highway first playing in (D) mode allowing the trans to auto shift. Then while in (D), manually paddle shift it.

2) After driving in (D), throw it in Sport (S) and drive the same route, again allowing the car to auto shift THEN manually paddle shift it.

THAT is how you determine if the A10 option is for you or not. Sure, this forum can help with some decisions, but honestly, actual drive and seat time is going to really determine what YOU will be buying.

 

[intheairtonight]

I shift between S and D on the fly. I run in S on the side streets and in town driving. When I get on the freeway I generally go to D unless it’s time to pass somebody then to S for the pass. Lol.

At normal highway speeds 65-75, how is your transition from D to S or S back to D? I ask because from my experience its not as smooth as it should be, I'm sure its normal but I feel/hear it more than I think I should.

 

[airfuel]

It doesn’t help that many people treat the throttle as an on/off switch.

Drives me crazy to see and hear people stabbing at the throttle and not being smooth and consistent.
No wonder a tranny with 10 gears gets confused.

 

[Lonmon]

I have never experienced any of this hunting people complain of. When I am in traffic or cruising at a certain speed the trans always does what its supposed to. Hunting to me would be if the trans continuously shifts back in forth between two gears because it can't make up its mind which one is appropriate for the speed you are traveling. I have never experienced this. Yes a 10spd shifts alot, its a 10spd! The only thing that has ever bothered me is occasionally when at a fairly low speed (35-40) or so when the trans decides that 10gear is ok the engine shutters a bit until it downshifts from lagging the engine. Sometimes I will just manually shift it down a gear or just apply more throttle to make it downshift. I wish it was smart enough to know that is too high a gear for that speed but I'm sure its a fuel mileage thing.

 

[CurtisH]

I have an Ecoboost PP with the A10 and I haven’t had any issues with the transmission hunting. Cobra_Jet mentioned that the rear gear makes a difference so the 3.55 gears may prevent mine from hunting. I’ve got just over 2,000 miles on it so far and I love this car.

 

[gimmie11s]

Some of you may have already read my post that I have copied and pasted below; some who have not seen it in the other thread, the info may help to understand the A10 from an actual Driver/Owner perspective.

There’s really not a lot of 10R80 info out there (yet) regarding its real world function, performance and what is normal feeling vs. what is not normal. I’ve looked myself, so threads like this one by A10 owners will definitely help others seeking to understand the A10 or help those who maybe on the fence when buying a 2018.

I think the difference in A10 trans performance is and could be due to what rear gear ratio folks have in a GT or EB. The PP GT or EB should have a more distinct “firm” shift if the rear has the 3.55’s, whereas someone with 3.15’s (or insert other gear ratio) will feel as if the shift is sluggish or soft.

————
My copied and pasted 10R80 reply below is from this thread:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100334
————

My car has 3.15s. In drag mode it will burn the tires through most of 1st, burn them again on the 1-2 shift and bark the tires on 2-3 and 3-4 shifts.

It absolutely slams you into the seat on the upshift. It's amazing. Best pass on Track Apps so far is 12.4@116 at 2500ft here in SoCal. Going to take it to a real track soon and get a real time. With traction it should go bottom 12s at 118 or so.

In normal mode, it is sluggish and docile.. you don't even know when the car shifts it's so seamless.

 

[DickR]

At normal highway speeds 65-75, how is your transition from D to S or S back to D? I ask because from my experience its not as smooth as it should be, I'm sure its normal but I feel/hear it more than I think I should.

Smooth both ways. Couldn't feel anything since it stayed in 10th so nothing happened.

 

[mustangfanatic]

My GT is smooth and quick in D and normal drive mode BUT it requires a very smooth steady throttle foot combined with "squeezing" on the gas.

The hardest thing to be smooth with is the PP brakes in slow speed gentle driving.

FYI Assuming D shift mode and normal drive mode squeezing the throttle does allow the transmission to avoid many of the "wrong gear" downshifts. The car will still be FAST but much less jerky.

How old is the car? It has a learning ECU that takes a bit to adapt.

I had the jerkiness initially with my A10 but as most people said the car adaptive learns your driving style. I hated it at first and almost took it back to Ford but after a week or so it stopped and the car started shifting as I would expect it to.

Another thing could be because both of you drive the car the car is getting two different driving style information thus compensating all the time and struggling.

Thanks for all the responses!

Agree that is is hard to brake smoothly under light application but I have gotten better at that with my 350 so less of an issue with the wife's GT.

The car just turned over 1400 miles today and she has had it about a month.

Great point on the ECU learning as well as the multiple drivers. I think what we will do is only let her drive for a while and see if that makes things better.

I will say that I drove it this morning and it has smoothed out some so I think that the ECU learning has improved the shifting.

The biggest thing I noticed today is that in Sport mode, the final downshift to first is quite harsh and the car noticeably jerks. Anyone else notice that issue?

 

[thecyber.ninja]

Congrats first of all.

The Mini is lighter than the stang I am guessing and having a turbo charged engine means more low end torque to get you fast off the line. Another thing to note is that the gas pedal travel is longer on the stang than most cars I have driven so that might give you the impression that the car is slow off the line. In addition, the Mustang has torque management in all modes except when in Drag mode in order to prevent slippage and the driver turning their tires to smoke. Dont quote me on this but after experimenting with my GT, I have noticed the difference.

If you do not have the digital dash than you cannot tell what gear your car is in unless you are shifting the gears yourself. I have the 401A package on the GT and it shows what gear I am in regardless of the drive mode.

A few details that weren't in the original post. I have the GT PP without digital dash so I have summer only tires, and I haven't drove my Mustang above 45 degrees until today.

Also tried sport mode today and I think I could easily spin tires if I am not careful. Transmission and tires are doing much better in warmer weather and sport mode.

It probably also has quite a bit to do with the driver as well . Just hit 650 miles...

 

[gmupatriot]

A few details that weren't in the original post. I have the GT PP without digital dash so I have summer only tires, and I haven't drove my Mustang above 45 degrees until today.

Also tried sport mode today and I think I could easily spin tires if I am not careful. Transmission and tires are doing much better in warmer weather and sport mode.

It probably also has quite a bit to do with the driver as well . Just hit 650 miles...

Your car is still young and all the parts are meshing together. I know I will get heat for saying this but these cars need to brake in properly before performing at their peak. My wife who is not so mechanically inclined also noted that the car got smoother as the miles kept on rolling (sitting at 5K now). The transmission, belts, engine components, all need some time to seat and work smoothly. I am sure as time goes by you will start to notice the difference as well. If you don't like how the transmission shifts after say 2K miles. Just pull off the battery terminals and reset the ECU. Start driving it again like you stole it and hopefully your issue will be resolved.

 

[DavidHuff]

I think the jury is still out how well the 10r80 trans will hold up in the real world once members start adding superchargers and turbo kits making over 800 HP.There is a lot of moving parts in a 10 speed auto transmission.Just saying!

 

[Spork3245]

I think the jury is still out how well the 10r80 trans will hold up in the real world once members start adding superchargers and turbo kits making over 800 HP.There is a lot of moving parts in a 10 speed auto transmission.Just saying!

The ZL1 Camaro seems to do just fine.

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