February Sales

[itguy08]

Ford really needs to up the advertising for the Mustang. These types of cars are emotional purchases (neither is really practical). Play that up. Looking at Youtube there were some great Mustang commercials. The story is certainly more history rich and compelling than anything Dodge or GM can offer. Quoting A Faster Horse: "Nearly everyone has a Mustang story." Play that up and tug at the performance heartstrings that made Mustang over the past 53 years. It's probably the #1 or #2 iconic American vehicle (Corvette would be the other).

I also wonder if it has to do with production issues - looking the order thread we've got guys that ordered LAST YEAR just getting their cars built. That's 3+ months ago? Seriously? WTF Ford. Dealers still around here still have 17's on the lot right next to 18's. By March that should not be happening.

If they want them to fly, get the base GT down to $32k or even $29,999. Sacrifice a tiny bit of profit on the low end to build buzz. GM could afford a price war, but FCA can't afford it would be an interesting thing to watch.

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[speedfrk]

I hate stacked charts like that. They are useful for a total category, but rough for comparisons between the things that make up the category. :-/

Shows trends pretty well. Challenger segment share increased every year since the refresh in 15. I don't think Dodge plans to do a major update until 2022 now. The ROI would not be there since the car sells so well as is.

On the Corvette comparison- I doubt very many people are cross shopping Corvettes and Mustangs. But if I was, I'd buy a used Vette with under 10K miles. They are everywhere and a great deal. The thing I don't understand is the high end Camaros. Why would you buy a 50+K Camaro instead of a Vette?

 

[itguy08]

Shows trends pretty well. Challenger segment share increased every year since the refresh in 15. I don't think Dodge plans to do a major update until 2022 now. The ROI would not be there since the car sells so well as is.

Unstacked bar charts show trends slightly better. Or line charts. Pie charts are still the best as you see the exact percentages rather than have to guess on a stacked chart.

I'd be surprised if Dodge makes it to 2022. Sales declines nearly every month, abysmal quality/dependability, 3 products, and FCA is not in great financial shape due to the Chrysler Albatross. Sergio is already trying to figure out his exit strategy,

 

[EcoVert]

The segment share chart shows what is happening... Challenger is bigger, more comfortable, better equipped at any price point and the styling is iconic. It would be interesting to see the average age of owners for each car. I suspect the Challenger would have older drivers. If they made a Challenger vert, they would really kill the Mustang and Camaro.
The car has aged better than any recent American car I can think of. Plus, they have some great advertising, which Ford and Chevy don't have.

Charts like this are designed to make the camaro6 cry babies think there super car is leading when in fact its falling further and further behind Mustang and Challenger :doh:

 

[dgc333]

Challenger leads. Wow.

Likely because you can buy a Challenger with AWD. People tend not to buy a RWD car in the winter.

 

[bootlegger]

The Challenger turns fine, considering what it is. The Scat Pack puts out similar non-straight line numbers to the base GT Mustang, and with wider and better rubber and a few other suspension tweaks easily puts it on par with the 15-17 GTPP.

The "it can't turn" etc is a trope shoveled out by people who haven't driven one.

I was obviously exaggerating, but I have rode in one. They feel very heavy compared to th Mustang, and I think the Mustang is too heavy. It isn’t a great stock car for weekend road course or mountain carving duty. I didn’t want a car that would require modifications just to feel confident on the curves. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Asharus]

not surprised about the numbers. camaro owners are mostly elitists, mustang owners are a little bit more diverse, but not as diverse as challenger owners.

you should see the type of people that own it in the facebook groups. ive never seen a more diverse group of people in all the auto groups i've been in.

 

[youra6]

Likely because you can buy a Challenger with AWD. People tend not to buy a RWD car in the winter.

Two trends I've noticed in the last 5 years:

1. Move from FWD, RWD to AWD
2. Smaller displacement engines with forced induction

I wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration Mustang GT comes with a Twin Turbo V6 that is also AWD (like a baby GTR). I know thats sacrilege to lots of Mustang owners but times are a changin'.

 

[speedfrk]

Unstacked bar charts show trends slightly better. Or line charts. Pie charts are still the best as you see the exact percentages rather than have to guess on a stacked chart.

I'd be surprised if Dodge makes it to 2022. Sales declines nearly every month, abysmal quality/dependability, 3 products, and FCA is not in great financial shape due to the Chrysler Albatross. Sergio is already trying to figure out his exit strategy,

They spun Ram off as a separate division. If it was still under Dodge, the numbers would be a lot better. Rams sell very well. Jeeps sell very well. Chrysler is sucking wind.
I had way more unresolved problems with my Mustang than I've had with the Challenger. I don't know if the 18's have fixed the DL vibration problem and AC problem, but I would not own a 15-17.

 

[edco]

Challenger Impression

I think it a big deal for Challenger to to take the monthly sales lead. As a Mustang guy (I own two) I cannot knock Challenger. I understand their appeal and why they sell. That said, I would not buy one. The differences in Challenger vs. Mustang are the things I don't want, but Dodge buyers want. 116" wheel base-no way. 4200 pounds-no way. 40 foot turning radius no way. 14 mpg-no way. Big body Detroit iron-no way. My '07 GT was parked next to a Challenger once and the Challenger blimp like proportions were remarkable in comparison. The Challenger size has an appeal to the US bred car buyer. Look at our trucks and SUVs. Some look like they belong on rails. '58 to '68 when I could only be a rider, my old man drove Lincolns and T-Birds. They were big heavy cruisers which felt like they dominated the pavement. The Challenger has that feel and US drivers somewhat want it. The differences may be in the answer to the question: Is a muscle car a pony car?
I prefer the pony car. A pony car can be a muscle car. On the scale of Challenger, the reverse, (to me) is not true. I think Challengers advantage over Mustang is their engine options. Challenger has 4 or 5 engine options. They have a medium V8 before you get to the 700 HP and 800 HP options. You guys will have to forgive me, but, I bought the V6 2017 Mustang. As much as that configuration was scoffed at, I could not be happier. Mustang would always lead sales if they continued the V6. I like the NA, 87 Octane EFI set up in the 4 valve twin I-variable cam 3.7L six. 32 MPG on the highway. 29 if run hard, what is hard? 85 mph. I prefer EFI to Direct Injection. DI needs 3 times the line pressure, is much more complex, and only improves efficiency by 3%. The performance gain is only a single digit %. To me EFI is mature technology runs great and runs forever. I have 200,000 miles on a 1995 Ford two valve 4.6L EFI and it runs perfect. DI needs premium fuel and when it goes wrong it is a high service bill. With no influence over Ford, the DI Turbo 2.3L 4 Cyl is not my style. The 10 speed 5.0L Coyote is world class, but the cost of ownership is higher than Mustangs of the recent past. Offer the 3.7L six TiVCT EFI for the cost sensitive buyer and throw in a 93 Octane Twin-Ecoboost V6 DI version for the performance buyer and no performance brand will eclipse Mustang sales.

 

[BmacIL]

I think it a big deal for Challenger to to take the monthly sales lead. As a Mustang guy (I own two) I cannot knock Challenger. I understand their appeal and why they sell. That said, I would not buy one. The differences in Challenger vs. Mustang are the things I don't want, but Dodge buyers want. 116" wheel base-no way. 4200 pounds-no way. 40 foot turning radius no way. 14 mpg-no way. Big body Detroit iron-no way. My '07 GT was parked next to a Challenger once and the Challenger blimp like proportions were remarkable in comparison. The Challenger size has an appeal to the US bred car buyer. Look at our trucks and SUVs. Some look like they belong on rails. '58 to '68 when I could only be a rider, my old man drove Lincolns and T-Birds. They were big heavy cruisers which felt like they dominated the pavement. The Challenger has that feel and US drivers somewhat want it. The differences may be in the answer to the question: Is a muscle car a pony car?
I prefer the pony car. A pony car can be a muscle car. On the scale of Challenger, the reverse, (to me) is not true. I think Challengers advantage over Mustang is their engine options. Challenger has 4 or 5 engine options. They have a medium V8 before you get to the 700 HP and 800 HP options. You guys will have to forgive me, but, I bought the V6 2017 Mustang. As much as that configuration was scoffed at, I could not be happier. Mustang would always lead sales if they continued the V6. I like the NA, 87 Octane EFI set up in the 4 valve twin I-variable cam 3.7L six. 32 MPG on the highway. 29 if run hard, what is hard? 85 mph. I prefer EFI to Direct Injection. DI needs 3 times the line pressure, is much more complex, and only improves efficiency by 3%. The performance gain is only a single digit %. To me EFI is mature technology runs great and runs forever. I have 200,000 miles on a 1995 Ford two valve 4.6L EFI and it runs perfect. DI needs premium fuel and when it goes wrong it is a high service bill. With no influence over Ford, the DI Turbo 2.3L 4 Cyl is not my style. The 10 speed 5.0L Coyote is world class, but the cost of ownership is higher than Mustangs of the recent past. Offer the 3.7L six TiVCT EFI for the cost sensitive buyer and throw in a 93 Octane Twin-Ecoboost V6 DI version for the performance buyer and no performance brand will eclipse Mustang sales.

I have a soft spot for the 3.7 and hate its demise in the Mustang (it would've sold quite well with premium and or performance pack options available), but in no way would a Ecoboost V6 have lower cost of ownership than an NA 5.0L. I have 55k on mine and have done nothing besides basic maintenance to keep it running perfectly. When it was new and on more economy focused tires, I hit 27-28 mpg on the highway easily, too.

 

[itguy08]

They spun Ram off as a separate division. If it was still under Dodge, the numbers would be a lot better. Rams sell very well. Jeeps sell very well. Chrysler is sucking wind.

Ram WAS selling well. Last month they tanked hard and I think they have been low digit growth for a while now. Jeep is very inconsistent as well with sales. Ram and Jeep are the only 2 things that are "worth anything" from Chrysler. And even then the Rams are not too compelling (easily outclassed in capability and reliability by Ford and GM).

I had way more unresolved problems with my Mustang than I've had with the Challenger. I don't know if the 18's have fixed the DL vibration problem and AC problem, but I would not own a 15-17.

Statistically, from those that track those sort of things, the former Chrysler (Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge) brands are near or at the bottom in reliability as they have been for many years. There's a reason they went bankrupt TWICE....

I don't get the "sky is falling" with Challenger outselling the Mustang. It was 293 cars. I still think it's partly because Ford has little incentives on the Mustang and there is the wrong option mix on the ground. Will be interesting to see if this is a pattern or anomaly.

 

[Timeless]

Two trends I've noticed in the last 5 years:

1. Move from FWD, RWD to AWD
2. Smaller displacement engines with forced induction

I wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration Mustang GT comes with a Twin Turbo V6 that is also AWD (like a baby GTR). I know thats sacrilege to lots of Mustang owners but times are a changin'.

My suggestion there would be an optional AWD that has the traditional v8 to the rear wheels and possibly electric motors to the front wheels giving AWD to those that want it and maybe even to those that want superior performance.

 

[edco]

I have a soft spot for the 3.7 and hate its demise in the Mustang (it would've sold quite well with premium and or performance pack options available), but in no way would a Ecoboost V6 have lower cost of ownership than an NA 5.0L. I have 55k on mine and have done nothing besides basic maintenance to keep it running perfectly. When it was new and on more economy focused tires, I hit 27-28 mpg on the highway easily, too.

I agree. I would take a NA 5.0L Coyote over a twin boosted V6. Performance wise the two would rival each other and that would confuse the buyer. Cost wise they would be equal also. I also agree Ford should have shown more preference for the 3.7L V6. 300 HP is not in the muscle car conversation, but it is a terrific driving car. I got blown past by a HellCat on the interstate. Big deal, a 400 HP advantage should buy something. Off a drag strip and on the roads, is the extra 400 HP usable? I would not pay the $60K for it. But HP sells cars.
I had a Challenger jump on my rear entering a 270 degree Hwy on ramp. I smoked him. The Dodge could not hold the turn went way up high on the edge of the grass and had enough body lean to get the inside wheels off the road. What a show boat, it is just a taxicab with 700 HP. eastern MO is second only to West VA in rural roads with climbs dives and turns, no shoulders, and limited sight distance. On those roads that Hell Cat would not find my tail lights if we drove all day. I don't want to trash the Challenger, it has its fans, but I would not buy one. The Mustang is best pony or muscle car rolling. IMO it ain't even close.

 

[ApollosWar89]

I'd be surprised if Dodge makes it to 2022. Sales declines nearly every month, abysmal quality/dependability, 3 products, and FCA is not in great financial shape due to the Chrysler Albatross. Sergio is already trying to figure out his exit strategy,

Given the financial strength of the parent companies. Ford financially has been an aging dog for years.

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