Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[Arthonon]

where is the recent, the 11 to 14 in a straight line was a driver's race. on a track the ss won. and again I dont care about sales, I'm talking about performance. gm makes a better performance car, sorry people refuse to grasp that, just like camaro people can't grasp the mustang is a way better everyday car. that's what's great about not being brand specific i give credit where it's due and call out cars where they fail, perfomance gm wins, comfort and daily life ford wins

I'm sorry, I'm really not understanding what point you're trying to make. Virtually everyone "grasps" that the 1LE is the better performing car on a track, at least right now, and may still be after the PP2 comes out, we don't know.

The point everyone else is trying to make that you seem to not grasp is that EVERYONE makes concessions in performance for other things, which I've said before.

In an earlier post, you said:

i don't think many track there car, but what i do think is people like saying my car is capable of this or that, if that wasn't the case why buy a performance car at all., not like you need to go 0 to 60 I 4 seconds and many will probably never try but they can say it can do it. so no corvette whats the next best track performance car the big 3 offer, it's camaro. ford or dodge have nothing to compete with the entire gen6 line, sucks but its the truth. I wish ford would've hooked up the gt with gt350 parts and male it more capable but they chose not to. and please don't bring up the gt500 and how it's gonna wreck stuff, there's very minimal info on it so that's beyond speculation

Why do people buy a performance car? I think most people do it because it's more fun to drive, not because they want to go around telling everyone "My car has THIS level of performance! Don't you wish you were me?" If that's why someone buys a performance car, they have issues a car can't fix.

If track performance is that important to you, have you stripped down your Camaro to make it better on the track? If not, why did you even buy a performance car?

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[tyler2k]

my point being everyone on both sides get on their high horse that what they have is the best, iv seen hundreds of excuses since the 18 came out why the camaro is beating it I all performance tests, so I wouldn't call that people are understanding, its no different I the camaro end saying the visibility isn't worse. everyone needs to step back and see these cars for what they are. and my issue with ford is the 18 is what the 15 to 17 shoulda been. as a ford owner i feel like they screwed us with that model. and no I'm not gonna strip my camaro down cause its a weekend street/track car. that's the point of it comfort for weekend drives and delivers on the track, something a gt has yet to do

 

[bootlegger]

ah sorry about that. mixed up people, every car company has copied another. did ford copy Oldsmobile since first muscle car was the 49 rocket 88, yes they did bit improved on it, which is what chevy did to ford. and if 2 of 3 tracks you've seen show it close and one doesn't the average shows they are close. yes never been directly tested but numbers we have show it close, way closer then the gt is to the 1le

At VIR, the 1LE is 3 seconds behind the GT350R. That is substantial, even on different days. At Leguna Seca, The GT350R was over a minute and a half faster, which is still pretty significant. The only tied time was at Willow Springs, also on different days. It is dishonest to claim the 1LE is going to run toe to toe with a GT350R. I am all for admitting the 1LE is a better track car than the GT 1PP, but let's not exaggerate things.

 

[Snagged]

You can't get take models out of GM's lineup. If the corvette didn't exist, there is a damn good chance Ford or another automaker would have something in that market.

So to answer your question, no...I don't think the camaro would sell "way" more. The only way the camaro sells "way" more is if the mustang and challenger disappear.

Yeah, I see a lot of the Corvette owners jumping from those to the BMW's, Prosches, Vipers (RIP) and GTR's. I did see the rare switch where one Vette owner went to a ZL1....but the latest generation of those do have the Corvette engine in it so they are quite appealing.

Perhaps GM is trying to widen the gap between Corvette and Camaro by offering the mid engine Corvette???

 

[tyler2k]

At VIR, the 1LE is 3 seconds behind the GT350R. That is substantial, even on different days. At Leguna Seca, The GT350R was over a minute and a half faster, which is still pretty significant. The only tied time was at Willow Springs, also on different days. It is dishonest to claim the 1LE is going to run toe to toe with a GT350R. I am all for admitting the 1LE is a better track car than the GT 1PP, but let's not exaggerate things.

I didn't say itd go toe to toe i said its at is heels meaning the gt350r is faster. an argument could made the gr350r or 1le had a worse driver or conditions but its still In the same class. I did think the 1le would best a gt350 though

 

[bootlegger]

my point being everyone on both sides get on their high horse that what they have is the best, iv seen hundreds of excuses since the 18 came out why the camaro is beating it I all performance tests, so I wouldn't call that people are understanding, its no different I the camaro end saying the visibility isn't worse. everyone needs to step back and see these cars for what they are. and my issue with ford is the 18 is what the 15 to 17 shoulda been. as a ford owner i feel like they screwed us with that model. and no I'm not gonna strip my camaro down cause its a weekend street/track car. that's the point of it comfort for weekend drives and delivers on the track, something a gt has yet to do

I don't feel screwed at all. My mustang is far more comfortable and livable than a Camaro. It handles amazingly well, and has plenty of power. Even Motor trend claims the GT is getting close to M4 performance on the track, which is quite an accomplishment. When it comes time for me to consider racing it, I will have already modified it to a point where I won't care about stock Camaros. For now, all that matters is that I have a quick comfortable car, that for street purposes can compete with similar priced vehicles.

 

[thill444]

my point being everyone on both sides get on their high horse that what they have is the best, iv seen hundreds of excuses since the 18 came out why the camaro is beating it I all performance tests, so I wouldn't call that people are understanding, its no different I the camaro end saying the visibility isn't worse. everyone needs to step back and see these cars for what they are. and my issue with ford is the 18 is what the 15 to 17 shoulda been. as a ford owner i feel like they screwed us with that model. and no I'm not gonna strip my camaro down cause its a weekend street/track car. that's the point of it comfort for weekend drives and delivers on the track, something a gt has yet to do

I think we really need to see how the PP2 stacks up against a 1LE. Prior to the PP2, Ford just did not offer a package that could compete head to head. Even if the PP2 comes really close, but still is slightly behind the 1LE it may be close enough that a few mods would make the difference and some people would then prefer the looks of and functionality and tech of the Mustang over the Camaro.

We are just guessing. The MotorTrend article really did not help as it basically did a head to head on something we already knew the answer to.

 

[bootlegger]

I didn't say itd go toe to toe i said its at is heels meaning the gt350r is faster. an argument could made the gr350r or 1le had a worse driver or conditions but its still In the same class. I did think the 1le would best a gt350 though

3 seconds at VIR isn't even in the same class. Are you sure you have raced before?

 

[bootlegger]

I think we really need to see how the PP2 stacks up against a 1LE. Prior to the PP2, Ford just did not offer a package that could compete head to head. Even if the PP2 comes really close, but still is slightly behind the 1LE it may be close enough that a few mods would make the difference and some people would then prefer the looks of and functionality and tech of the Mustang over the Camaro.

We are just guessing. The MotorTrend article really did not help as it basically did a head to head on something we already knew the answer to.

I would have been very surprised if the 1PP could have kept up with the 1LE. The Mustang is not even close to the same level with wheels and tires alone.

 

[tyler2k]

3 seconds at VIR isn't even in the same class. Are you sure you have raced before?

one of 3 the average says otherwise, and since everyone's argument is same day same driver that 1le could've had a horrible driver or conditions. as of right now ford doesnt offer an affordable track car that's hopefully gonna change with the pp2. and they would have one if dealers didn't mark up the gt350 so much

 

[bootlegger]

one of 3 the average says otherwise, and since everyone's argument is same day same driver that 1le could've had a horrible driver or conditions. as of right now ford doesnt offer an affordable track car that's hopefully gonna change with the pp2. and they would have one if dealers didn't mark up the gt350 so much

The VIR runs for the 1LE and the GT350R were both during the same C&D Lightning Lap event. The conditions were similar. The Willow Springs events and details are harder to track down.

 

[Arthonon]

my point being everyone on both sides get on their high horse that what they have is the best, iv seen hundreds of excuses since the 18 came out why the camaro is beating it I all performance tests, so I wouldn't call that people are understanding, its no different I the camaro end saying the visibility isn't worse. everyone needs to step back and see these cars for what they are. and my issue with ford is the 18 is what the 15 to 17 shoulda been. as a ford owner i feel like they screwed us with that model. and no I'm not gonna strip my camaro down cause its a weekend street/track car. that's the point of it comfort for weekend drives and delivers on the track, something a gt has yet to do

Again, I think it is you who aren't getting it. I don't see anyone "making excuses," they're just explaining it (i.e., tires are different, the PP1 wasn't designed to be a full-on track car, etc.), and that for overall use, they feel the Mustang is a better combination of capabilities for their needs. Your approach seems to be that if it's not better on the track, then what's the point of it being a performance car?

I think most people bring up sales to point out that Ford made the right choices to sell cars that more people want, not that it's a better performer on the track. You could have a better track car than the one you have, but you've chosen not to do that because you like the conveniences when not at the track - same for the Mustang buyers.

 

[tyler2k]

Again, I think it is you who aren't getting it. I don't see anyone "making excuses," they're just explaining it (i.e., tires are different, the PP1 wasn't designed to be a full-on track car, etc.), and that for overall use, they feel the Mustang is a better combination of capabilities for their needs. Your approach seems to be that if it's not better on the track, then what's the point of it being a performance car?

I think most people bring up sales to point out that Ford made the right choices to sell cars that more people want, not that it's a better performer on the track. You could have a better track car than the one you have, but you've chosen not to do that because you like the conveniences when not at the track - same for the Mustang buyers.

so what about the edmunds test, similar car in price, the mustang had a tire upgrade as the a10 and the camaro still edged it out, everyone was blaming tires and saying its not fair cause the ss come with magniride, you don't think that's an excuse. so if the pp2 beats the 1le and i say if the 1le had cup2s its win you wouldn't call that an excuse cause i would. bottom line if you want comfort that you can do spirited backroad driving the mustang 100%is the car, if you want best performance for dollar the camaro is your car

 

[Snagged]

where is the recent, the 11 to 14 in a straight line was a driver's race. on a track the ss won. and again I dont care about sales, I'm talking about performance. gm makes a better performance car, sorry people refuse to grasp that, just like camaro people can't grasp the mustang is a way better everyday car. that's what's great about not being brand specific i give credit where it's due and call out cars where they fail, perfomance gm wins, comfort and daily life ford wins

Yeah, I don't care about sales either, but Ford certainly does. ;)

But yeah, I know the most recent generation Mustangs were outrunning the Camaros in straight line. The straight line performance is usually close between the Camaro and Mustang but there have been a few blow outs.

And no argument from me on that performance side of things, GM makes a great performance car. GM goes after the more serious track rats while Ford appeals to the bigger crowd of muscle car buyers and makes something that is competitive but at the same time comfortable and easier to live with on a day to day basis, indeed. However, it can't be denied Ford does go after GM in the higher trim models of the Mustang. That can be seen time and time again with Terminator Cobras, 13/14 GT500's and the same thing that could be shaping up with the 2019 GT500.

I'm not brand loyal and love the new ZL1's. I'm not a Corvette guy though. But i appreciate all makes and models.

 

[tyler2k]

Yeah, I don't care about sales either, but Ford certainly does. ;)

But yeah, I know the most recent generation Mustangs were outrunning the Camaros in straight line. The straight line performance is usually close between the Camaro and Mustang but there have been a few blow outs.

And no argument from me on that performance side of things, GM makes a great performance car. GM goes after the more serious track rats while Ford appeals to the bigger crowd of muscle car buyers and makes something that is competitive but at the same time comfortable and easier to live with on a day to day basis, indeed. However, it can't be denied Ford does go after GM in the higher trim models of the Mustang. That can be seen time and time again with Terminator Cobras, 13/14 GT500's and the same thing that could be shaping up with the 2019 GT500.

I'm not brand loyal and love the new ZL1's. I'm not a Corvette guy though. But i appreciate all makes and models.

ooh ford definitely cared about sales haha. and they do a damn good job selling them. I wish I could afford a zl1 1le but that's outta my range unfortunately

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