Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[tyler2k]

Ford isn't "LAY" to the party. Ford invented the party in 1964 and the Camaro is a cheap copy. Ford reinvented the party in 2005 and history repeated itself with GM bringing the Camaro back as a copy once again.



The GT350R and GT500 performance show what the Mustang is capable of. Performance is one data point and it's foolish to think that people buy a car based on one thing. Otherwise everyone would be buying the 700+ hp full warrantied Mustangs from that place in Ohio. Even the small percentage of people who track their cars still spend 99% of their time commuting to work or driving around town. Most people don't buy a car based on 1% of what they are going to do with it. The priority is a car that is enjoyable for the majority of what you do with it.

oh so sorry phone auto corrected, ill have a talk with it, and how is it a cheap copy when it's alway beating the mustang, hell even in 05 when there was no camaro the 02 camaro was still faster. and you call it cheap yet my 15 in its all of 7200 miles it had on it had the evaporator done twice and was on its way out again. had to be ripped a part and part of the roof repainted to fix a pinch weld that leaked causing water to come In the car (only found this out after the windshield was redone twice) and a driveline vibration that ford called normal. but yea the gm is cheap. and ya the gt500 was awesome, but its performance on a track wasn't repeatable, and the gt350r is an amazing car but looking at any track times the 1le is right on the heels, even matching it on some tracks, so a 1le is right with Ford's halo car despite being half the price after adm and down on power and heavier. but after all its just a cheap copy

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[tyler2k]

So they gave you a $2K incentive for owning a Mustang and trading in, and $1K for owning a Corvette? I am confused? But hey $3K off for incetntives on top of other discounts is solid.

Your Ford pricing makes no sense as every dealer around me is knocking $3-4K off the 2018's with no haggling. Based on your price your paying a dealer markup forget any incentives.

Anyway sounds like you got a great deal on a car that better suits your needs (track focused car). Enjoy!

I went to alot of dealers for the pp2, could have been that it was right when it was announced but my 15gt was having condenser issues for the 3rd time in 7200 miles and i only had 2 more months of warranty so i wanted out. they were discountingthe 17s like mad but nothing on the 18s

 

[bootlegger]

oh so sorry phone auto corrected, ill have a talk with it, and how is it a cheap copy when it's alway beating the mustang, hell even in 05 when there was no camaro the 02 camaro was still faster. and you call it cheap yet my 15 in its all of 7200 miles it had on it had the evaporator done twice and was on its way out again. had to be ripped a part and part of the roof repainted to fix a pinch weld that leaked causing water to come In the car (only found this out after the windshield was redone twice) and a driveline vibration that ford called normal. but yea the gm is cheap. and ya the gt500 was awesome, but its performance on a track wasn't repeatable, and the gt350r is an amazing car but looking at any track times the 1le is right on the heels, even matching it on some tracks, so a 1le is right with Ford's halo car despite being half the price after adm and down on power and heavier. but after all its just a cheap copy

I have yet to see the 1LE run against a GT350R on the same day/track with the same driver.
If you think GM quality is going to exceed Ford's, you are kidding yourself. They both have their own issues. My 08 GT had one single issue (syncro TSB) in 3 years of beating on it. That is pretty impressive, imo.

 

[tyler2k]

I have yet to see the 1LE run against a GT350R on the same day/track with the same driver.
If you think GM quality is going to exceed Ford's, you are kidding yourself. They both have their own issues. My 08 GT had one single issue (syncro TSB) in 3 years of beating on it. That is pretty impressive, imo.

so what the numbers have been close enough multiple times thats is oblivious its right there, and yea that's impressive but for anyone to say that one is built better then any other is a joke all production cars have issues yet you called it a cheap copy. I had a 09 cobalt ss with over 400hp on a stock motor and trans for over 100k not one issue, my brother has a focus st That is stock and lives at the dealer with problems so is that the great build quality you speak of. all production cars are built like crap

 

[bootlegger]

so what the numbers have been close enough multiple times thats is oblivious its right there, and yea that's impressive but for anyone to say that one is built better then any other is a joke all production cars have issues yet you called it a cheap copy. I had a 09 cobalt ss with over 400hp on a stock motor and trans for over 100k not one issue, my brother has a focus st That is stock and lives at the dealer with problems so is that the great build quality you speak of. all production cars are built like crap

I didn't call anything a cheap copy. You are getting confused. GM and the Camaro have a long list of known issues (one of which can mean a lot to someone who races). The other guy called the Camaro a cheap copy, because it owes its life to the Mustang. It was developed to compete with the Mustang, after GM saw the Mustang's success.

The 1LE and GT350R track time comparisons I have seen amount to like 2 or 3 tracks. One case showed substantial difference.

 

[tyler2k]

I didn't call anything a cheap copy. You are getting confused. GM and the Camaro have a long list of known issues (one of which can mean a lot to someone who races). The other guy called the Camaro a cheap copy, because it owes its life to the Mustang. It was developed to compete with the Mustang, after GM saw the Mustang's success.

The 1LE and GT350R track time comparisons I have seen amount to like 2 or 3 tracks. One case showed substantial difference.

ah sorry about that. mixed up people, every car company has copied another. did ford copy Oldsmobile since first muscle car was the 49 rocket 88, yes they did bit improved on it, which is what chevy did to ford. and if 2 of 3 tracks you've seen show it close and one doesn't the average shows they are close. yes never been directly tested but numbers we have show it close, way closer then the gt is to the 1le

 

[Hack]

how is it a cheap copy when it's alway beating the mustang

I don't believe it's "ALWAY" beating the Mustang. Usually the Mustang is a better all around vehicle and the Camaro has serious flaws.

 

[tyler2k]

I don't believe it's "ALWAY" beating the Mustang. Usually the Mustang is a better all around vehicle and the Camaro has serious flaws.

show me one performance based test the mustang bested the gen6. there isn't one. again in talking performance cause these are performance cars. talking comfort or sales and sayong the mustang wins it all based on its easier to live with and sells more would be like someone In the ufc getting knocked out in the first round but still given the win cause he's better looking. I'm talking out of the box performance

 

[Chameleon]

I don't believe it's "ALWAY" beating the Mustang. Usually the Mustang is a better all around vehicle and the Camaro has serious flaws.

Well yeah you can't even see out of a Camaro. :headbonk:

 

[tyler2k]

Well yeah you can't even see out of a Camaro. :headbonk:

even that doesn't affect everyone. Randy post said he had no issue seeing out of the car. is it as good as the mustang, hell no but everyone acts like its impossible to see which isn't the case. are you guys complaint its hard to see out of the ford gt or is that ok cause its a ford. the camaro design is part of why its good on the track. I will say unless you get a 1le or zl1 variant the ss is an ugly car. its to plain looking

 

[thill444]

I went to alot of dealers for the pp2, could have been that it was right when it was announced but my 15gt was having condenser issues for the 3rd time in 7200 miles and i only had 2 more months of warranty so i wanted out. they were discountingthe 17s like mad but nothing on the 18s

It was likely timing. Ford is offering incentives on the 18's now and many dealers will match or beat X-plan before incentives, at least where I live.

 

[thill444]

even that doesn't affect everyone. Randy post said he had no issue seeing out of the car. is it as good as the mustang, hell no but everyone acts like its impossible to see which isn't the case. are you guys complaint its hard to see out of the ford gt or is that ok cause its a ford. the camaro design is part of why its good on the track. I will say unless you get a 1le or zl1 variant the ss is an ugly car. its to plain looking

Well Randy Pobst is not daily driving the Camaro in traffic with ass hats who think that if you drive a Camaro or Mustang that you want to race at every light and try to cut you off.

Like all things, I am sure you will adjust to the visibility issues in the Camaro and learn to use your mirrors. I use my mirros, but I also often check by looking first before I change lanes, etc and the Camaro is very limited. I thought my Corvette was pretty bad and the Camaro is much worse.

It is what it is. You wanted the better track car and bought it and there are cons with each and every car. Your on a Mustang forum so folks will give you grief but as long as you are happy that's all that matters.

 

[tyler2k]

Well Randy Pobst is not daily driving the Camaro in traffic with ass hats who think that if you drive a Camaro or Mustang that you want to race at every light and try to cut you off.

Like all things, I am sure you will adjust to the visibility issues in the Camaro and learn to use your mirrors. I use my mirros, but I also often check by looking first before I change lanes, etc and the Camaro is very limited. I thought my Corvette was pretty bad and the Camaro is much worse.

It is what it is. You wanted the better track car and bought it and there are cons with each and every car. Your on a Mustang forum so folks will give you grief but as long as you are happy that's all that matters.[/QUOTE

i would never daily a camaro, hell I didnt with my mustang either. I loved my mustangs, my 14 was awesome but stripped down, my 15 was awesome to despite the problems and if at the time ford was willing to deal id have a pp2 on order, but with a new year coming and my ac acting up again i had to get rid of it. I definitely hope the pp2 is as good as everyone hopes they look amazing

 

[Snagged]

while I agree with that, your building a car to compete with another you can't argue that, the top 3 all try to be the best. ford is lay too the party and not only bumped the price quite a bit but only just caught up with the other 2. pretty disappointing that couldn't put more effort in

Well the simple answer is, Ford doesn't have to outperform Chevy to sell cars. Ford understands their customer base and appeals to them. The main body of the Mustang crowd, even a lot of the enthusiasts, don't look for a top performing track car that can wrench out every second of each lap. Judging from the past and current line up, it just seems Ford just wants to offer something competitive with the GT and give some knock out blows with the high trim Mustangs. Not to say the GT never beats the SS, because it does and in fact very recently.

It's a formula that has worked and I'm sure they won't change it until they have to.

 

[tyler2k]

Well the simple answer is, Ford doesn't have to outperform Chevy to sell cars. Ford understands their customer base and appeals to them. The main body of the Mustang crowd, even a lot of the enthusiasts, don't look for a top performing track car that can wrench out every second of each lap. Judging from the past and current line up, it just seems Ford just wants to offer something competitive with the GT and give some knock out blows with the high trim Mustangs. Not to say the GT never beats the SS, because it does and in fact very recently.

It's a formula that has worked and I'm sure they won't change it until they have to.

where is the recent, the 11 to 14 in a straight line was a driver's race. on a track the ss won. and again I dont care about sales, I'm talking about performance. gm makes a better performance car, sorry people refuse to grasp that, just like camaro people can't grasp the mustang is a way better everyday car. that's what's great about not being brand specific i give credit where it's due and call out cars where they fail, perfomance gm wins, comfort and daily life ford wins

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