Autocross Setups

[nastang87xx]

So... How badly classed is the GT350 in AS/SS?

I got stomped at a recent event by a top level national driver, 1.9 seconds off in scratch time... A week after I raw timed him (scratch time vs scratch time, to be fair ) while running a friend's FoRS at the Oscoda ProSolo. I didn't have a perfect drive, but I only had ~5 tenths to find according to data. Maybe I was massively under-driving, but it seemed to be understeering almost everywhere. Also, first time on this lot in any car ever, so... it was super bumpy and grip was inconsistent, 1.25 G one corner, 1.05 the next.

SoloStorm had some OBD2 wackiness here, but whatever. I ran the car in track mode, nannies off, dampers in sport (to try and tame the rear end a bit... but I was glad I ran sport due to the bumpiness)

That's a nice location. This has come up in my region recently as an interesting talking point and the consensus with us is that AS is an absolutely ridiculous position. But we also think it might be a little too strong for BS too. It's kind of an oddball. That and the SS 1LE. I'm happy in CAM but my local CAM guys are also the bomb and great fun to compete with. Unfortunately...I'm having shoulder and bicep surgery tomorrow so my season is done. :( I was on pace to win CAM in my region.

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[nastang87xx]

All I can really say for sure is FS is easily the most obscene Street class there is. Base Alpha Camaro SS's, E92 M3's, and Boss 302's with that light of an index? NONSENSE. That's seriously almost as bad as those CSP cars.

 

[DocWalt]

That's a nice location. This has come up in my region recently as an interesting talking point and the consensus with us is that AS is an absolutely ridiculous position. But we also think it might be a little too strong for BS too. It's kind of an oddball. That and the SS 1LE. I'm happy in CAM but my local CAM guys are also the bomb and great fun to compete with. Unfortunately...I'm having shoulder and bicep surgery tomorrow so my season is done. :( I was on pace to win CAM in my region.

I got raw timed by BS... :( The BS driver that beat me came off of winning the Toledo Tour in BS, AS driver was 2nd by a hair at Oscoda Pro, I was 2nd in BS at Oscoda Pro (coned away a huge win of ~6 tenths) and I won the Super Challenge... So I'd put us all on fairly even footing driver pace wise, so it's a very interesting comparison

I didn't consider this much of a Vette course, but it was interesting in a side by side of me versus a BS car (not the winner) that the Mustang made time in slaloms and acceleration but lost time in sweepers. I was very front end limited IMO. I don't think changing the bar would have helped much, but oddly at other events I've done I felt like the bar would have helped. :shrug:

I'd write a letter requesting a look into the classing. The worst they can do is say no

All I can really say for sure is FS is easily the most obscene Street class there is. Base Alpha Camaro SS's, E92 M3's, and Boss 302's with that light of an index? NONSENSE. That's seriously almost as bad as those CSP cars.

We can get into DS or CS too, right? Haha. I think every class will have some outliers, but I guess because I rarely see REALLY fast FS cars/drivers locally I'm jaded. National events I'm always shocked by how fast they are raw time wise.

 

[nastang87xx]

Well and I get that you have to put cars somewhere too. Like in AS the outlier is definitely the C5 Z06 but where the hell else is it supposed to go? A 3200lb 400 horsepower 2 seater up against a 2800lb 240 horsepower S2000 in B Street? Ah...no. But then it doesn't make sense to put it in Super Street against its modern and much more sophisticated successors. Welp, it's gotta go somewhere.

Even those old S197 Mustang Shelby GT's can hold their own in F Street. They're just so manageable and reasonably light. The diff have a little bit of a hard time keeping up in the transitions but that could be said about almost any car with a clutch pack rear.

With F Street, just raise the index some.

 

[nastang87xx]

but I guess because I rarely see REALLY fast FS cars/drivers locally I'm jaded. National events I'm always shocked by how fast they are raw time wise.

Just wait until nationals. My Brew City Milwaukee peeps are gonna rip F Street a new one and a half lol. 2 E92 M3's, an Alpha Camaro 1SS. My guy in the Camaro took F Street at Toledo.

 

[DocWalt]

Well and I get that you have to put cars somewhere too. Like in AS the outlier is definitely the C5 Z06 but where the hell else is it supposed to go? A 3200lb 400 horsepower 2 seater up against a 2800lb 240 horsepower S2000 in B Street? Ah...no. But then it doesn't make sense to put it in Super Street against its modern and much more sophisticated successors. Welp, it's gotta go somewhere.

Even those old S197 Mustang Shelby GT's can hold their own in F Street. They're just so manageable and reasonably light. The diff have a little bit of a hard time keeping up in the transitions but that could be said about almost any car with a clutch pack rear.

With F Street, just raise the index some.

Yeah even with the low power compared to the other cars in AS the C5Z is still VERY competitive because it's narrow and light.

The FoRS wasn't the car to have in BS because it kinda sucked at sweepers. It was a ton of fun though... and people called it a class killer when they classed it there

 

[DocWalt]

Hot on the heels of the 1LE & GT350 not being moved to BS... :( Not my letter for the record, mine hasn't gone through yet.

Pics from autocross last Sunday. I had a codriver, he struggled compared to his C6, but you can't really turn down a co-drive in a car that sounds like the GT350 can you?

 

[TDC]

Doc, you going to run the 350 at any of the upcoming SCCA Meadowlands events? You're a faster driver than me and would like to benchmark my times against yours; see how much I'm leaving on the table.

As for classing, it's funny because the short tracks where I could solely use 1st gear the 350 gets close to the modified class raw times (regional events). The engine just pulls. However, 2nd gear courses like the Meadowlands shows the low rpm, low torque and high gearing handicap of the Voodoo in AS as compared with a vette. With that said, its still fun to chase after the big dogs as long as the drive modes don't glitch out.

I wonder how the M2 is doing in AS and BS.

 

[DocWalt]

Doc, you going to run the 350 at any of the upcoming SCCA Meadowlands events? You're a faster driver than me and would like to benchmark my times against yours; see how much I'm leaving on the table.

As for classing, it's funny because the short tracks where I could solely use 1st gear the 350 gets close to the modified class raw times (regional events). The engine just pulls. However, 2nd gear courses like the Meadowlands shows the low rpm, low torque and high gearing handicap of the Voodoo in AS as compared with a vette. With that said, its still fun to chase after the big dogs as long as the drive modes don't glitch out.

I wonder how the M2 is doing in AS and BS.

I ran up there last weekend ;) I'll probably run another event up there this year, I'll see when I get back from Nats. I was hoping you'd be a late sign up when I didn't see you on the pre-reg.

[ame]

The car is definitely a blast, it'll just be a bit futile doing national events in it next year... which is good because I want to do more HPDE stuff instead, haha.

M2 is competitive in BS, but it's not THE car to have. The only "car to have" in BS is the Cayman or C5, IMO. The FoRS is probably the most competitive at Pros though, launch control & courses that tend to suit its stronger points.

 

[TDC]

Nice run! That looked like a nice, fun layout. Wanted to go but...

 

[TDC]

Just looked at the results and saw you beat David's 2015 Z-28. Nice job as I know he is consistent and fast. I never match his times.

 

[DocWalt]

Just looked at the results and saw you beat David's 2015 Z-28. Nice job as I know he is consistent and fast. I never match his times.

Yeah I was super happy to match his times! He's consistently quick and a good benchmark for "muscle car" in AS.

My last run was going reasonably well (found a couple tenths) until this...

[ame]

 

[DocWalt]

I now have two copies of the FSM...

The one from Helm says you can only use service bolts to increase front camber allowance.

The Motorcraft FSM says I can grind the upper hole in the strut 1.0mm AND use the service bolts. I wonder if I'll get to -2.0 camber this way.

Just an FYI, seems like all years of the GT350 can do the 1.0mm grinding & service bolts to get more front camber.

FWIW my tire wear looks pretty decent after 40+ runs, I'd like to get rid of the wear on the shoulder though. More front grip will be good, then I can do some FSB changes and get a sharper transition out of it. The balance is currently perfect IMO, but it's a bit soft in transition on the Sport damper setting.

 

[Mach4.6]

I used a uni-bit or step drill to open up the top hole on my strut
Worked great, better than trying to use a reg drill bit

 

[Paul@PKAUTODESIGN]

When I get my motor situation done, I really would like to start autocrossing her. I feel like this car deserves a good run once in its life.

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