Any dyno graphs with Comp cr Stg 3 cams?

[Lonmon]

I don't really agree with that, honestly I think the factory intake should be fine for those cams. yes there would be a gain however the gt350 manifold moves the powerband more then it makes power. it's more of a design difference then actual volume or a large increase in volumetric effeciency . I still don't think tuners have fully exploited the benefits of variable cam and cam gear timing on the coyote.I have access to a dyno and I'll be doing the cam swap eventually so we can see some actual dyno plots. The cams by themselves should gain quite abit of power on a stock car with a free flowing intake. I think 450whp is possible with a simple intake and cams and a tune on stock exhaust.

This is kind of funny to me. Multiple top level tuners have tuned cams on these cars. I don't know why you think they are leaving so much on the table. The cams available right now are seeing 30-40whp on the S550 (as mentioned) mostly in conjuncture with upgraded intake manifolds. You might be able to see about 450whp with cams, stock intake and exhaust mani's, but I believe you will need e85 and cat deletes. Cammed you would pick up about 40-60whp easy from around 6-8k rpm with a GT350 IM and more with a CJ. Our cars are much closer to the Boss setup then the 11-14 coyotes, there is just not as much to be gained from the cams without going pretty radical. If 450whp is all you want, you want your power to cut off at 6500 and you need every last bit of torque under the curve, then go for the cams without any other breathing mods. For most of us going to the strip or occasionally in Mexico, the intake mani's and headers are well worth the advantages. Many of us, myself included have seen 50-60whp gains (not peak) above 6600 with a GT350 IM let alone a CJ. Cams available for the S550 have not been able to do this. At least not yet. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing cams. Just along with at least and intake mani upgrade. Cams will run you about 3k with install and opg/cg while you're in there. A GT350 IM is around 1k using stock tb and easy for anyone to install. I say do all of it and have a 500whp coyote!

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[Lonmon]

That article says exactly what i suspected. the stock manifold produces best average tq out of the 4

GT
491.1 hp at 6,900 rpm
429.2 lb-ft at 5,400 rpm
Average Power: 373 hp, 376 lb-ft – 2,800-7,500 rpm

BOSS 302
510.4 hp at 7,600 rpm
398.4 lb-ft 5,400 rpm
Average Power: 376 hp, 361 lb-ft – 3,000-7,800 rpm
+/- to GT manifold: +19.3 hp, -30.8 lb-ft

Cobra Jet
531.2 hp at 7,600 rpm
408.6 lb-ft at 5,400 rpm
Average Power: 386 hp, 370 lb-ft – 3,000-7,800 rpm
+/- to GT manifold: +40.1 hp, -20.6 lb-ft

GT350
515.8 hp 7,500 rpm
402.6 hp 6,100 rpm
Average Power: 381 hp, 365 lb-ft – 3,000-7,800 rpm
+/- to GT manifold: +24.7 hp, -26.6 lb-ft

For a daily driver ill take the torque. Im not so sure the other intakes are even worth the money unless you really need the hp and will be using the car much screaming over 7500 rpm.

PS its 40 hp more up top spinning 700 more rpm but the low end tq loss is 20 lb-ft too.

Looks to me like the comp s3 cams and stock intake is best balance out of the 4 combos here.

So you want to lose power down low with a cam that you will not rev high enough to see gains from so you can daily driver race someone? Most of us don't care too much about 6wtq average loss for 40whp gain. It is true you might enjoy slightly better half throttle short shifting. Good luck with that combo. The cams are actually rated by their intended rpm range, I just don't get how you think they will do much good unless the air flow is increased at the intended rpm range. The stock mani stops flowing well before the intended rpm range of the cams. Change the mani out for one that flows at the intended rpm range of the cams and its a whole different story. There is only so much you can do with VCT tuning. Just like the intake mani's move the power curve up, so do cams.

 

[16MustangVet]

So you want to lose power down low with a cam that you will not rev high enough to see gains from so you can daily driver race someone? Most of us don't care too much about 6wtq average loss for 40whp gain. It is true you might enjoy slightly better half throttle short shifting. Good luck with that combo. The cams are actually rated by their intended rpm range, I just don't get how you think they will do much good unless the air flow is increased at the intended rpm range. The stock mani stops flowing well before the intended rpm range of the cams. Change the mani out for one that flows at the intended rpm range of the cams and its a whole different story. There is only so much you can do with VCT tuning. Just like the intake mani's move the power curve up, so do cams.

Huh? it makes more HP yes but it loses quite a bit down low too. Point is the stock manifold makes more tq sooner than the CJ. For the money spent on the CJ id spend the money else where first. is all i was trying to point out.

Cams, exhaust, fuel mods to supoort E85 would be done before money spent on the CJ intake thats just my opinion.

comp stage 3 specs.

Cam Specs
RPM Range: 2000-7500
Duration @.050": 235* I / 237* E
Valve Lift: .516" I / .514" E
Lobe Separation Angle: 131*

rpm range 2k to 7500 LOL do these cams really need to be strung out? NO up to 7500 stock manifold is fine. after 7500 the CJ is obviously a better choice.

 

[Lonmon]

Do what you like. Intake mani's gain 50-60whp over stock for the last 1-1.5k of rpm (where it counts). The sacrifice is 5-20wtq down low where it does not count. Of course if you are worried about that loss on a car that still makes well above 300wtq for daily driving then ok, you got me. I have not missed any of that torque but I sure do notice the freight train pull up top! Yes the cams say a range of 2000-7500rpm but the gains you will see with the cams will mostly be above 6500rpm, you know, where the stock mani is proven not to flow enough. I look forward to you showing me 40whp+ gains with cams and the stock IM. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to stick with facts. The stock mani is absolutely proven to not produce power above 6600rpm. It drops hard after this so no, it is not good to 7500rpm.

 

[16MustangVet]

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...hp-from-comp-cams-cr-series-cams-on-a-coyote/

this article was from before the intake manifold shoot out. here they installed them cams with limiters.

What the hell here we go again with too many variables to get a decent comparison!

I thought people said that the 2015s and newer didnt need to use the limiters with s3 cams. if it picks up 50hp in this article with limiters in i have question what the difference would be vs stock manifold and NO LIMITERS.

I hate that damn enginelabs ls3 vs coyote shootout. so many things the pissed money away on for the coyote build. they half assed it by starting out with a f150 block they had to spend money from the 9,999 budget cap to redo the rotating assembly and get the compression back up. Also i think that boss intake manifold is a poor choice.

Its nearly impossible to find comparisons 1 damn mod at a time instead of someone throwing a pallet worth of parts at an engine and hoping for the best.

Its kind of like hail marry trouble shooting just replace items until the fault goes away this is just throw parts at it and hope for the best without really sorting out what combinations do and dont work well together.

As the old saying goes the whole build is more than the sum of its parts!!!!

 

[16MustangVet]

Do what you like. Intake mani's gain 50-60whp over stock for the last 1-1.5k of rpm (where it counts). The sacrifice is 5-20wtq down low where it does not count. Of course if you are worried about that loss on a car that still makes well above 300wtq for daily driving then ok, you got me. I have not missed any of that torque but I sure do notice the freight train pull up top! Yes the cams say a range of 2000-7500rpm but the gains you will see with the cams will mostly be above 6500rpm, you know, where the stock mani is proven not to flow enough. I look forward to you showing me 40whp+ gains with cams and the stock IM. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to stick with facts. The stock mani is absolutely proven to not produce power above 6600rpm. It drops hard after this so no, it is not good to 7500rpm.

Cmon on guy you are totally missing the point here. Im talking step by step 1 mod at a time. im not discounting a CJ intake.

However id spend money elsewhere BEFORE going to a CJ intake......

you spend money on x y z mods plus a cj intake and ill spend money on the same x y z mods but spend the cj intake money on a plate kit because my stock intake was FREEEEE! and youd get your ass drug from here to china lol!!

that cj intake costs what 850 bucks? that 850 bucks buys a damn nice plate kit just saying LOL....

got the budget by all means CJ and plate it is then even better.

 

[1320']

Dude if you want to run the stage 3 comps or some trick custom cams on the stock intake manifold more power to you...

Just don't get all bent out of shape if after you spend $3,500+ on parts and labor and tuning and you have a mismatched engine that doesn't make the power you were convinced it was going to make.

 

[16MustangVet]

3500 for cams huh? lol good thing they cost less than half that and id put them in myself.

 

[1320']

Oh god this just keeps getting better

 

[Lonmon]

We can agree that the enginelab test was almost worthless. They also used an engine dyno so 50hp there is not 50whp of course. Limiters will probably not really affect peak hp but can affect tuning below the curve. I don't know where the plate kit comes into this. Of course you can buy a plate kit cheap and make some power. That was never in this conversation. I don't want temporary power in a bottle that may blow my engine up if it ever malfunctions. The point is you will spend at least $2000-2500 on cams. That is $1500+ shipping for the comp stage 3's and $1000 for opg/cg/dampner. Those are real world prices for parts that you would be a fool not to do while you are going through the trouble to install the cams. Even if you are doing it yourself. Add in fluids and other incidentals and it could be more. Not to mention if you end up needing to pay labor like most folks. Then factor in the power difference between an intake mani upgrade and a cam upgrade with no mani. You are the person that will be drug to China my friend. After you spent over double what I spent. My 20-50whp gains through out the power band and effectively raising my rev limit due to upper rpm efficiency will trump your 30-40whp (if that with no mani) gain that will taper off big time after 6500rpm causing your rev limit to be around 7k max. That means I will have an extra 1k of usable rpm. You will shift and I will pull ahead for 1k rpm every time. I'm just trying to help you believe it or not. Not just trying to argue. I have experience with this. I'm all for you being the guinea pig and trying this setup. Everyone will gain important info by you testing the cams on stock IM. Just don't be surprised when you don't see more then 20-30rwhp and you get stomped by a stock cam CJ or GT350 IM car at the track or in Mexico. Then you can go buy your plate kit and show them whos boss!

 

[Terminator2]

Cmon on guy you are totally missing the point here. Im talking step by step 1 mod at a time. im not discounting a CJ intake.

However id spend money elsewhere BEFORE going to a CJ intake......

you spend money on x y z mods plus a cj intake and ill spend money on the same x y z mods but spend the cj intake money on a plate kit because my stock intake was FREEEEE! and youd get your ass drug from here to china lol!!

that cj intake costs what 850 bucks? that 850 bucks buys a damn nice plate kit just saying LOL....

got the budget by all means CJ and plate it is then even better.

Nitrous aside. Bang for the buck is huge with a CJ manifold. I can't think of a bolt on na mod that gives more power per dollar not even headers.

 

[sandeale]

Ill update with dyno graphs, and slide by the shop at some point and do an overlay of all mods but here's a synopsis of my mods thus far:

Stock IM with tune and steeda: 392hp @ 6700

GT350 IM tune and steeda: 427 hp @ 7300

Added catted pypes long tubes: 445 @ 7300

Finally decided to tune myself and added timing/fuel and optimised the vct: 457 @ 7300

All runs were on the same dyno very close weather,conditions and on 93 octane, i have now added 47lb injectors and went back to a ported stock tb and the numbers from datalogs indicate slight gains over my previous tune (still on 93) plan on redynoing soon

Follow on plans include comp s3 cams...

 

[16MustangVet]

We can agree that the enginelab test was almost worthless. They also used an engine dyno so 50hp there is not 50whp of course. Limiters will probably not really affect peak hp but can affect tuning below the curve. I don't know where the plate kit comes into this. Of course you can buy a plate kit cheap and make some power. That was never in this conversation. I don't want temporary power in a bottle that may blow my engine up if it ever malfunctions. The point is you will spend at least $2000-2500 on cams. That is $1500+ shipping for the comp stage 3's and $1000 for opg/cg/dampner. Those are real world prices for parts that you would be a fool not to do while you are going through the trouble to install the cams. Even if you are doing it yourself. Add in fluids and other incidentals and it could be more. Not to mention if you end up needing to pay labor like most folks. Then factor in the power difference between an intake mani upgrade and a cam upgrade with no mani. You are the person that will be drug to China my friend. After you spent over double what I spent. My 20-50whp gains through out the power band and effectively raising my rev limit due to upper rpm efficiency will trump your 30-40whp (if that with no mani) gain that will taper off big time after 6500rpm causing your rev limit to be around 7k max. That means I will have an extra 1k of usable rpm. You will shift and I will pull ahead for 1k rpm every time. I'm just trying to help you believe it or not. Not just trying to argue. I have experience with this. I'm all for you being the guinea pig and trying this setup. Everyone will gain important info by you testing the cams on stock IM. Just don't be surprised when you don't see more then 20-30rwhp and you get stomped by a stock cam CJ or GT350 IM car at the track or in Mexico. Then you can go buy your plate kit and show them whos boss!

:frusty: i never said the CJ isnt worth doing all im saying is id do other mods before it.

Rule # 1 never pay full price for parts.
Rule #2 never pay someone else to do what i can with my own 2 hands.

This is a bit blown out of proportion on the CJ trust me yes i understand the benifits of it and where it would shine again id be doing cams (opg upgrades) exhaust and e85 then intake is all ive been trying to point out from the get go.

 

[Terminator2]

Ill update with dyno graphs, and slide by the shop at some point and do an overlay of all mods but here's a synopsis of my mods thus far:

Stock IM with tune and steeda: 392hp @ 6700

GT350 IM tune and steeda: 427 hp @ 7300

Added catted pypes long tubes: 445 @ 7300

Finally decided to tune myself and added timing/fuel and optimised the vct: 457 @ 7300

All runs were on the same dyno very close weather,conditions and on 93 octane, i have now added 47lb injectors and went back to a ported stock tb and the numbers from datalogs indicate slight gains over my previous tune (still on 93) plan on redynoing soon

Follow on plans include comp s3 cams...

Add E-85 to that and you've got 470whp easily. I'm hoping for 485-490 whp on mine on E-85 with the CJ and everything optimized on the dyno. I'm 3.31s so no 5th gear pulls because 198mph at 8000 in 5th with my size tires. I've got to use 4th which is going to lower my numbers. I might swap to 3.73s but not sure yet.

 

[newkidnik]

I forget who made the comment that a H/C/I 5.0 on FTW would barely crack 500 wheel. As posted earlier in the thread, I hit 500whp on 93 with bolt-ons and cams. It's very doable.

Revauto said I'd pick up another 30-40whp with heads. 530-540whp isn't off the table, N/A. Yes, the right tuner and parts combo are essential.

Bang for buck for my 3.31 FD:
1) Intake/Tune
2) Headers
3) Manifold

For a 3.73 FD, I'd switch the manifold and the headers on that list. Running a big rpm mani on 3.31 is a waste.

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